I know we have lot's of Apple fanboy's here so I am just wanting to get some info / advice.

I had a play with a friends Macbook Pro, and was (sadly) very impressed by it. I will never replace my PC with a Mac, but my Dell Laptop is coming to the end of it's business lease period.

What's the big draw to Mac's? what makes it "click" for you (Please no MS is crap etc comments please).

I would be using it for Training, delivering courses, seminars but I use Virtual Server, Virtual PC and VMware a lot. Is parallels up to par with something like VMware workstation?

When I am not training, but doing my proper techie job I sometimes need to use the lappie to test xml / wmi scripts for SMS / SCCM, do Mac's "do" WMI and XML.

It would be a big jump for me as I am a Microsoft "fanboy" but my mate's macbook just worked so damn well, and little things like the illuminated keyboard were actually quite usefull.

So does anyone use a macbook for business, how do you rate it? Do Apple have a leasing scheme for small business or is it a case of slapping the credit card over the counter?

Any pointers are welcome

I replaced a Tosh with a Macbook (not a pro) and I absolutely love it. If needs be I can install Vista using either VM or bootcamp but to date I haven't needed to.

I like the simplicity and, as per the advert, it just works. I haven't had to bugger about with anything

I only run Office for Mac and some design software on it and my accounts and that's about it.

Hi Tony,

I use a 2.4 MBP as my main computer, replacing a Dell D600.

Main reason why? Well, it helped a lot that it was cheaper to buy (as a student, with a three year warranty) than the equivalent Dell etc at the time, and I quite liked the idea of learning a *nix system. I think I came at it in a similar way to you (MSFTie looking for a change)

Likes?

1)Backlit keyboard (although, perversely, the colour scheme means that it's readable in the dark without using the lighting, using stray light from the screen, unlike the standard black laptop fare).

2)Aluminium MBP small (tho not light) and well put together.

Dislikes:

1) Don't get it if you want to dual-boot with Windows. Apple just don't seem to care, so touchpad drivers are pants, webcam driver messes up suspend etc etc etc. Not at all polished.

2) I hate the way Apple patch their software. They never tell you what they're doing to your system, it's always just a "critical system update fixing some bugs". Last year a mismatch between an update and a version of Quicktime (we think) crippled Rosetta and CUPS on my machine. The Apple Geeks or whatever they call themselves at the store just reinstalled OSX. Not impressed.

3) It makes a stupid bong sound whenever you switch it on. Apple really do like the sound of their own voices...

4) Their keyboard layout is irritating. The "@" and """ symbols are reversed, as per the American layout, and their "fn" and "ctrl" keys are, IMHO, the wrong way 'round. I've remapped them in Windows but not found a way to do it in OSX.

Would I buy another? Probably not... For you it will probably depend on how much the niggles get to you!

What's the big draw to Mac's? what makes it "click" for you (Please no MS is crap etc comments please).

They just work; as said. Plus you have OSX and OSX server. Not 121 different versions of Vista that have been crippled in various ways.

2) I hate the way Apple patch their software. They never tell you what they're doing to your system, it's always just a "critical system update fixing some bugs". Last year a mismatch between an update and a version of Quicktime (we think) crippled Rosetta and CUPS on my machine. The Apple Geeks or whatever they call themselves at the store just reinstalled OSX. Not impressed.

About the Mac OS X 10.5.2 Update | Apple security updates

What kind of info are you wanting about it?

3) It makes a stupid bong sound whenever you switch it on. Apple really do like the sound of their own voices...

And the windows sounds are not ever so slightly ****e?

IMO the mac book pros are just so well made, they really are a thing of beauty! Its one of those items that just pleasing to hold. The keyboard can be a little annoying if your used to a windows layout, but if you try and use your mac like a windows machine (like most people who dont like them) you are bound to not get along. Windows people try and over complicate everything on a mac because its what they are used to!

OS X simply blows vista out of the water in terms of usability, looks and features.

To quote PCworld.com "The fastest Windows Vista notebook we've tested this year (through 10/25/07) is a Mac. Try that again: The fastest Windows Vista notebook we've tested this year--or for that matter, ever--is a Mac. Not a Dell, not a Toshiba, not even an Alienware." granted its a bit old, but they are very good machines!

Tony,

Hardware aside I swapped to a MBP last year.

I run VMware now over parallels, having owned both, vmware just works better for me.

I also dual boot, but actually found vmware boots my vista, so now I don't even have too do that, running outlook in unity mode, i.e. pretends to be a mac window is great.

As for demos etc, I've not purchased mac office, no need as I have real office on a vm . If I swapped outlook to entourage then it would be easier, but I need new office features :(

As for day to day use, I can honestly say I've not thought about or cared one jot about frigging tings, patching or anything else. I'll not go back to windows for a laptop now, I would consider linux, but the dependency issues on linux are still too much hassel for a daily worker. It's fine for servers or desktop build tests...

The mac does just work. Sure there is some re-training time and I've not even begun to touch the base with applescript, automater or anything like that...not even tried.

Growl as an app is too cool for words along with quicksilver (a keystroke based launcher) ctrl+space fi enter and I've launched firefox by way of an example. Sure those apps exists for windows so a draw there.

One thing though I'd realyl consdier if a mbp is what you need. I thought it was and talked myself down from a 17" to a 15.4". Now I do a lot of web coding / reading so I need screen space. But to be honest I use a 2nd monitor about 80% of the time. I'm really considering ditching the MBP for a normal MB. For the limited time I use it in the field, the space / options are better in a MB format. It's got as much puff in the cpu, ram and has the advantage of swappable disks!

But the 15.4 is not too much to carry and an Air, well they look great in the field...

So if the tax man commeth for profits get a mac, at worst you'll have a shiny windows laptop, and vista is f'ing quick on it, but I only use that or EVE Online, just had to mess about with network settings. If you have a mobile data card, there maybe some issues too. I have an orange one and it kind of works, but not on the mac. Worked fine, but some smart alex put lepoard on and now it's not so hot...but hey vmware, connect usb to vista, and I've got mobile web again, so yes it's easy to over complicate things

And the windows sounds are not ever so slightly ****e?

Yep (if a bit less 1980's) but the best bit is you can turn them off! I haven't yet worked out how to turn off the Mac's bong sound - advice gratefully received.

Can Mac's play xvid / divx movies? I spend a lot of time away and the laptop keeps me out of mischief at times when bored in a hotel room

Edit, just read Col's post so even if they did not, I could boot a vista image from vmware and use that ........ these things sound cool

Is there a great advantage to a Pro over a Macbook, apart from the larger screen that is?

sorry for all the questions

Can Mac's play xvid / divx movies? I spend a lot of time away and the laptop keeps me out of mischief at times when bored in a hotel room

Yep, no problem there VLC does divx out of the box although I can't remember about xvid. Not too well-threaded though so may struggle with higher-def movies. I'm sure there's something better out there I haven't found yet but I'm not really a movie-watcher.

Edit: I'm now worried about what mischief you might otherwise get up to when you're bored in a hotel room :eek:

The bong is there for a reason an a mac.. its a diagnostic tool. Its the mac saying hello there i am working a..ok!

But if you really want to get rid then look here.. http://www.hacktheday.com/mac-tips-turn-off-your-macs-startup-sound/

Yep, no problem there VLC does divx out of the box although I can't remember about xvid. Not too well-threaded though so may struggle with higher-def movies. I'm sure there's something better out there I haven't found yet but I'm not really a movie-watcher.

Edit: I'm now worried about what mischief you might otherwise get up to when you're bored in a hotel room :eek:

Actually, I just re-read that post ... and it sounds suspect

Reading all of this.. why the heck don't i own one and why do i struggle along with my old IBM T41?

I think i need a MBP! Muuuu....st Reee.....sist! Nee....ed P.. S.. 3.. first!

MBP advantage, size, keyboard layout might be better. But as I say I use a BT kb and mouse with external monitor for 10 hours a day. The odd sitting on a sofa or at a crag, it's of no use to me at all and the MB would win out.

I used to use a A5 mini laptop from jvc for meetings, it would go in the suit pocket, pull out connect do presentation / make notes leave. Very good for that, no use to work directly on for long periods, it's too compromised.

I don't think that's the case with the MB and MBP. If you have a main desk machine thats going to be your workhorse, I'd suggest the MB, based on my experience for mobility I wish I'd talked myself down to the MB first. Although the one killer for me at the time of purchase was the MB's would only take 2Gb of ram, I frequently max out to 4...but thats not a problem either now.

Go to trafford and play with them for a while, the staff will help you get started and just use them for a bit. If you can type on the MB and like it's screen...QED...or the MBP.

For external monitors the MB you'll need to adapters @15, one for d-sub and one for the white digital thing.

why the heck don't i own one

If you do get one, try & find a friend at uni (if you're not a student) to buy it for you. I seem to remember I saved about £500 on mine by getting it this way. This probably won't work for Tony if he's buying his as a work expense though :(

If you do get one, try & find a friend at uni (if you're not a student) to buy it for you. I seem to remember I saved about £500 on mine by getting it this way. This probably won't work for Tony if he's buying his as a work expense though :(

I work for an apple reseller.. i get them at trade and if i wait until the next cpu upgrade i can get one at demo price which is even cheaper still!

I've hear the MB are better built than the MBP.

I've hear the MB are better built than the MBP.

You have made my day with that one.

Lets just say that i know the internals of both machines very very well and i have an MBP

*Edit*

If you want anything else or any more info thats not really for public viewing then drop me a PM as im John (TaviavRS) will tell you that i can look after you

I've hear the MB are better built than the MBP.

What sort of issues should MBP owners look out for?

I know the earlier white MB have a tendency to turn yellow, i dont know if that issue has since been resolved.

TKW and apinner if you want answers to both of those PM me as it could land me in hot water

Jon (TaviavRS) will tell you that i can look after you

very helpful indeed!

Now about a Macpro with a single processor as I think 2 quad cores maybe a bit of overkill instead of a 24" imac.....

You have made my day with that one.

Lets just say that i know the internals of both machines very very well and i have an MBP

*Edit*

If you want anything else or any more info thats not really for public viewing then drop me a PM as im John (TaviavRS) will tell you that i can look after you

Well when they first came out the MBP was assembled by a random company and the MB by asus.

Since Asus build lots of laptops they didn't have the same issues the MBP had.

Not saying that is the case, just that when they first came out i know lots of people with the pro who had issues and non of the MB owners had the same sort of quality control issues.

Still if you want to give me any info and a good price I'd be all ears.

very helpful indeed!

Now about a Macpro with a single processor as I think 2 quad cores maybe a bit of overkill instead of a 24" imac.....

Buy one then and sell the Processor to ColG as he has just spent some serious cash on his PC

Sadly though there isnt much need for single processor MacPro :(

cheezemonkhai - on the quality of them ill differ but im a technician so i only ever see poorly ones :(

as for a good price you have PM

I will never replace my PC with a Mac...

If only I had a pound for everytime I've heard that & then the guy has later bought himself a mac! (I'd have about £3 )

I have used various iterations of Windows at work (upto XP) but have always had Mac's at home. I much prefer the Mac's.

To me the main difference is that the Mac is designed to work around the human, whereas with Windows the human has to bend to the PC.

As stated by others, one of the usual 'switcher' things is to try to get their new Mac working like their Windows machine. Much better to use it as intended. The most common gripe is the 'one button mouse vs 86 button mini keyboard on castors' debate. On a Mac you tend to use the keyboard more & the mouse less.

The other nice touch with a Mac is that all applications will/should work in the same way. i.e. CMD-H will hide the top most application. Hence you tend to use keyboard shortcuts rather than the mouse and get up to speed with new applications really quickly.

The hardware is usually pretty good as well.

If you're not too sure, get a basic MacBook to start with just to see if you can live with it. If you don't like it you can always stick Windows on it or just sell it on. (another Mac selling point; very low depreciation). Be aware that it won't come to that though. Six months later you will be replacing your desktop with a nice shiny Apple!

Handy site that helps you avoid buying just before an update: Macrumors Buyers Guide . MacBook & MacBook Pro are mid cycle at the mo'.

Well when they first came out the MBP was assembled by a random company and the MB by asus.

Since Asus build lots of laptops they didn't have the same issues the MBP had.

Not saying that is the case, just that when they first came out i know lots of people with the pro who had issues and non of the MB owners had the same sort of quality control issues.

I think Quanta might object to being called a "random company"......OEM for Apple, HP, IBM, Toshiba.......yes, I see, very "random":rolleyes:

Build quality issues - well if you trawl the web, the majority of people talking about MBP's are those with issues - but since when is that different from any other manufacturer? If it works, you tend to ignore it. If it falls over/break/bursts into flames/runs off with your wife, then this will get you all hot and bothered and you find a soapbox to stand on and rant.

Initial claims for overheating of the CPU - the only time I get above 50deg C is when doing big video conversions - fans spin up and stop it from going over 80........what's the problem? Intel chips historically have much better thermal management than AMD's (slow down, as opposed to self-combust).

AS for the screen bend issues on MBP's......it's an aluminium alloy.......pressed into relatively thin sheets, not cast. Aluminium, IIRC, is a "soft" material, and working it is notoriously hard. Even the demo machines have varying degrees of bend to one end of the screen. Put it into perspective - I've lugged my MBP (complete with screen bend) all over the UK on building sites, knocked it, subjected it to unglazed pottery (yet it remains unscratched!) and even poured coffee into it via the vents on the rear (don't ask).

It still works like it's out of the box. slightly better now with 4gb RAM installed (seriously cheap from Crucial...£56 vs Apple's £300.......less than a 5min job)

I run Parallels for some specialist software, bootcamp into Vista for the odd gaming session.....all of it faultless.

But I run 98% of my time in OS X.......the touchpad interaction becomes 2nd nature after a day - I get terribly confused when I'm presented with a "PC" laptop at work.

No need to add drivers for all the printers, scanners, digital cameras I use.......it just works.

Cliched, yes. But it turns out to be true.

Unless you're planning on gaming, it might not be worth the expense of the MBP with it's dedicated NVIDIA gfx card. A black MB might be more cost effective.

I was a rabid Dell fanboy till i bought the MBP.....