Somewhat predictable for a learner driver car, but not been mentioned on here...how about a Corsa?

Had one for a few days as a hire car (1.4 petrol SXi - no experience of the diesels but they look decent on paper) and I was surprised at how nice it was to drive and how comfortable it was. Not sure if the pillars would be an issue...it does appeal to the yoof market though.

Rob.

A few problems really:

60,000 mile warranty, so around 15 months for me which is no good unless the school owns it.

The fuel efficient ones are very very slow, the nippy one is no good on fuel and costs a lot for a potentially low resale value.

VXR on LPG has more than once crossed my mind though:D

Chris

A few problems really:

60,000 mile warranty, so around 15 months for me which is no good unless the school owns it.

The fuel efficient ones are very very slow, the nippy one is no good on fuel and costs a lot for a potentially low resale value.

VXR on LPG has more than once crossed my mind though:D

Chris

lol... now that would be cool..... I'd put an honest bet though, again on no insurance... we looked into it with the golf GT, no insurance company would touch us! bet the cupra was the PD160 and hench insurable at less than group 16 ish....

lol... now that would be cool..... I'd put an honest bet though, again on no insurance... we looked into it with the golf GT, no insurance company would touch us! bet the cupra was the PD160 and hench insurable at less than group 16 ish....

Could well have been the diesel thinking about it. The Mini is looking more and more the way to go. Speaking to the school, they reckoned they often get people phoning to ask if they have Minis to learn in. Running the idea past a few pupils, they reckon lots of their mates are actively looking to learn in them. The up side of a fashionable car I suppose.

Now if they are that much in demand, I could buy one and potentially save a further £5600 a year.

Chris

well I've used a car for test with stop/start technology (Honda civic hybrid) and the examiners were quite happy with it....

have you heard some of the suggestions for the new driving test? bringing more eco driving into it?

one rule will be "if the car is stationary at lights/or in a cue, for more than 20 seconds, the engine must be turned off.." and things like that ! ?

let us know how it goes (and if it breaks down )

well I've used a car for test with stop/start technology (Honda civic hybrid) and the examiners were quite happy with it....

have you heard some of the suggestions for the new driving test? bringing more eco driving into it?

one rule will be "if the car is stationary at lights/or in a cue, for more than 20 seconds, the engine must be turned off.." and things like that ! ?

let us know how it goes (and if it breaks down )

So, if you've been stationary for 18s, and know that the next phase on the lights is yours, and will occur after the opposing phase goes from amber to red, and yours has cycled through R&A to G, you have to turn the engine off!!!? Fruitbats!!!

So, if you've been stationary for 18s, and know that the next phase on the lights is yours, and will occur after the opposing phase goes from amber to red, and yours has cycled through R&A to G, you have to turn the engine off!!!? Fruitbats!!!

lol... don't even get mne started! . the way 90% of people use their gears would get them loads of minor faults if they took their test today, and they are also on about how you use gears in relation to eco driving ect.......

some good things though, a longer test, manouvers in the off-road area of supercentres, and compulsary dual carridgeway work ect.....

none of it is set in stone yet... it's just being discussed....

Don't start me (or anyone else Scottish) on the idiocy behind compulsory dual cabbageway driving on a test!

If the Mini and 500 are considerations on your list Chris, I can't see the 500 being any less attractive for prospective new learners. This is a personal view, however, and maybe Fiat are being a bit optimistic in hoping they can directly cash in on Mini sales,based purely on the 'cheeky' Italian image. With the right colour and option choice and the 1.3 MJet I think it would be cracking.

I can entirely see why you're edging toward the Mini though, based on the posts above. Think that's the one you'll end up with

Oh, and you can sort the stereo out quite easily with the Harmon Kardon option. If you're willing to pay the option price of course...

Again, think carefully about option and colour choice and I don't think you can go wrong. Just fingers crossed it'll be reliable, as Sharky was eluding too :P - who's your nearest BMW/Mini dealer?

Steve

If the Mini and 500 are considerations on your list Chris, I can't see the 500 being any less attractive for prospective new learners. This is a personal view, however, and maybe Fiat are being a bit optimistic in hoping they can directly cash in on Mini sales,based purely on the 'cheeky' Italian image. With the right colour and option choice and the 1.3 MJet I think it would be cracking.

I can entirely see why you're edging toward the Mini though, based on the posts above. Think that's the one you'll end up with

Oh, and you can sort the stereo out quite easily with the Harmon Kardon option. If you're willing to pay the option price of course...

Again, think carefully about option and colour choice and I don't think you can go wrong. Just fingers crossed it'll be reliable, as Sharky was eluding too :P - who's your nearest BMW/Mini dealer?

Steve

Hi Steve

I really like the Fiat 500. I have seen a couple of them looking really good. One in red with broad white tapered stripes from headlight to flank, and one in a pearlescent white with black stripe breaking into chequers as it neared the flanks. First worry is that I have been asking current pupils what they think of various cars. Some of the girls like the look of the 500, but the marketing in the UK has been a bit half arsed, so there is not the buzz that the Mini creates. Some of the girls reckon it is trying to be cute. Lads generally are not so keen on it. One other biggie, no reach adjustment of the steering wheel.

Looking at the Which reliability surveys, the new Mini scores much higher than the old one. Interestingly, of the French manufacturers, only Citroen made average for reliability, with the other two being below average. Fiat are pretty much at the bottom of the list in terms of reliability, though the new 500 is an unknown. Fiat dealers came in for some stick too. The Fabia 2 is near the top for reliability and the 1.4 Sport is on my list, but the lack of performance, average fuel consumption and less than sporting ride are minus points.

My nearest BMW / Mini dealer is about 5 minutes walk from me;)

Will need to decide if I can face shelling out for the Mini this week. The seats I want (with lumbar adjustment) push the price up to close on £16.5K. There may be advantages further down the line, but it is a lot of cash to stump up. Also, time to start pushing for price. August is always really slow, so may forge a deal there. The dealers I have spoken to insist there are no deals, but they keep phoning me and I can see signs of desperation showing through. Lead times have come down by 2 weeks in the last month too. Perhaps the credit crunch is biting them? All power to my elbow.

Chris

Hi Steve

I really like the Fiat 500. I have seen a couple of them looking really good. One in red with broad white tapered stripes from headlight to flank, and one in a pearlescent white with black stripe breaking into chequers as it neared the flanks. First worry is that I have been asking current pupils what they think of various cars. Some of the girls like the look of the 500, but the marketing in the UK has been a bit half arsed, so there is not the buzz that the Mini creates. Some of the girls reckon it is trying to be cute. Lads generally are not so keen on it. One other biggie, no reach adjustment of the steering wheel.

Looking at the Which reliability surveys, the new Mini scores much higher than the old one. Interestingly, of the French manufacturers, only Citroen made average for reliability, with the other two being below average. Fiat are pretty much at the bottom of the list in terms of reliability, though the new 500 is an unknown. Fiat dealers came in for some stick too. The Fabia 2 is near the top for reliability and the 1.4 Sport is on my list, but the lack of performance, average fuel consumption and less than sporting ride are minus points.

My nearest BMW / Mini dealer is about 5 minutes walk from me;)

Will need to decide if I can face shelling out for the Mini this week. The seats I want (with lumbar adjustment) push the price up to close on £16.5K. There may be advantages further down the line, but it is a lot of cash to stump up. Also, time to start pushing for price. August is always really slow, so may forge a deal there. The dealers I have spoken to insist there are no deals, but they keep phoning me and I can see signs of desperation showing through. Lead times have come down by 2 weeks in the last month too. Perhaps the credit crunch is biting them? All power to my elbow.

Chris

£16.5 k?! seriously?! Chris... i hope your "residual" type finance numbers ect work out, because this is stupidly expensive... I spent £11k on the GP , have 130bhp,6 speed box, 18k service intervals, 5 star NCAP, ESP standard , 17's, fully loaded standard equip such as bluetooth connection , media payer , 6 airbags , more reliable than the vRS, despite 'opinions' ... ect ......

is that EXTRA £5.5k worth it?! you could buy and run a ford KA as a driving school car for that much..... and thats just the extra cost! two cars and train a PDI? .... hhhmmmmm

is that EXTRA £5.5k worth it?! you could buy and run a ford KA as a driving school car for that much..... and thats just the extra cost! two cars and train a PDI? .... hhhmmmmm

hhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmm !!!!!!!

£16.5 k?! seriously?! Chris... i hope your "residual" type finance numbers ect work out, because this is stupidly expensive... I spent £11k on the GP , have 130bhp,6 speed box, 18k service intervals, 5 star NCAP, ESP standard , 17's, fully loaded standard equip such as bluetooth connection , media payer , 6 airbags , more reliable than the vRS, despite 'opinions' ... ect ......

is that EXTRA £5.5k worth it?! you could buy and run a ford KA as a driving school car for that much..... and thats just the extra cost! two cars and train a PDI? .... hhhmmmmm

Hi Dave

At the moment, the price difference to the GP would be covered in fuel alone within the warranty period and then some. If fuel continues to go up, the cost difference could be recovered in less than 2 years. Under all foreseeable circumstances, the Mini Cooper D will be worth a lot more than the GP come time to sell.

I have taught in cars I did not feel comfortable in. I had a Corsa 1.7di and a Fester 1.4tdci. Neither were comfortable for a long days teaching and neither were nice to drive. I can get the staff discount off the Ka, so get it very cheap, but it is not comfortable, so no point really.

I am on the Mini at the moment for the same reason I was at the Fabia vRS before. When I wanted the Fabia, it had to be comfortable, be nice enough to drive, do enough MPG and be reliable. The Fabia at the time was the only car to meet the criteria.

If my criteria were the same this time around, I would be going for the Fiat GP Sporting 1.9 much the same as you did, even given the very lacklustre dealer we have here. The residuals would not be quite up to Fabia standards, but if it lasts 31 months, it has paid for itself anyway.

Trouble is my criteria has changed. Fuel consumption goes up the list a long way. If diesel continues on its upward trend, the Fabia costs too much to run. The Fiat GP or the Fabia vRS both become too thirsty. The Mini makes sense financially. The extra cost is offset by the fuel saving, so overall I pay the same amount out. However, the school is regularly asked for lessons in a Mini. Looking a bit at the marketplace, I reckon the Mini will give me a desirability from outside my circle of recommendations. This could really be helpful if I am to go independent, something I am giving consideration to at the moment. If it helps enable this to happen, I can retain my franchise fees, which add up to a new Mini every 2.5 years or so.

Of course I could go with any number of equally fuel efficient cars, but most of them are either pants to drive, pants to look at, uncomfortable or too slow, or in the case of the tempting Fiat 500, not quite the right image for the business. I reckon that over a three year period, the Mini would cost the same to buy and run as the Fabia has, or the Fiat would. However, it will sell for more (even just a bit if really high mileage), but importantly, it is very popular with the learners around here.

As with all things in business, better capital investment leads to bigger profits if you have the money to point at it in the first place. Even if it turns out to be a bad buy, I am not stuck wit high repayments as I have saved up (nearly) enough to buy up front. Just knowing that £2200 a year less will be going out in fuel is enough to make the deal comfortable.

On the other hand, that extra £5.5K would buy a nice holiday:D

Really do not know what to do at the moment. It seems like a good way to run a business. A few instructors here are running Cooper Ds and have said it really is a pupil draw. Decisions decisions. Got to make the decision this week really. Need rid of the Fabia while it is still young enough to be a good buy for someone else.

Chris

train a PDI? .... hhhmmmmm

Hhhhmmmmmm:rubchin:

I was realy only suggesting the Kia because it was about the only thing I could think of that was about the right sort of size and has similar performance to a Furbie vRS.

Kia ProCeed quite big - son just bought one. Was surprised how long it is.

Felt pretty good though

Kia ProCeed quite big - son just bought one. Was surprised how long it is.

Felt pretty good though

Fuel consumption is an issue. I need to keep it lean. Plus warranty is all up at 100,000 miles, or just over 2 years for me. Lot of car for the money, but the discount I get on the Focus makes the Kia seem expensive.

Chris

Quick decision from when we spoke at the pub at the handling day.

Why you looking to change then and I take it you have tried all the drive the deal type sites to get the dealer down on price. I know my local dealer had a 3 month old ex demo cooper D about to come off.

Quick decision from when we spoke at the pub at the handling day.

Why you looking to change then and I take it you have tried all the drive the deal type sites to get the dealer down on price. I know my local dealer had a 3 month old ex demo cooper D about to come off.

The Fabia is getting on a bit now. As a car for someone wanting VRS ownership on a budget, it has plenty of useful life left, so is still worth something. If I keep it another year, I have to spend out on 45,000 miles worth of fuel, consumables and servicing including the belt change. Works out more profitable to replace soon and get a reasonable price while it is running well.

Am looking at various price sites at the moment, but not too much room to haggle. Having said that, dealers keep phoning me and delivery lead times are down, so market shows signs of a deal being possible.

Chris

The Fabia is getting on a bit now. As a car for someone wanting VRS ownership on a budget, it has plenty of useful life left, so is still worth something. If I keep it another year, I have to spend out on 45,000 miles worth of fuel, consumables and servicing including the belt change. Works out more profitable to replace soon and get a reasonable price while it is running well.

Am looking at various price sites at the moment, but not too much room to haggle. Having said that, dealers keep phoning me and delivery lead times are down, so market shows signs of a deal being possible.

Chris

I had a very keen dealer too, so I'd agree with you that you should be able to get some room. Especially if you were to take the finance then pay it off straight after as the dealers get a kick back for finance. I was told they were willing to share it by taking something off the price if I was willing to go that route.

the cooper D is in the current "evo" magazine, in a test of "can you have fun and save on running costs? " article (panda 100hp is in there too) may be worth getting so you can have a read.... think they averaged 50-51mpg in the cooper D (I got 48 out of mine today...)

the cooper D is in the current "evo" magazine, in a test of "can you have fun and save on running costs? " article (panda 100hp is in there too) may be worth getting so you can have a read.... think they averaged 50-51mpg in the cooper D (I got 48 out of mine today...)

I read that (I get a subscription, well worth it for the cover art alone). Talking of Evo I think I saw a couple of their guys out in an R8 on Monday evening.

When I did my test drive I was careful to run the same route for the Fabia and Mini to compare the difference. The only real inconsistency on the test was that the Mini was run from cold, the Fabia from warm.

Fuel consumption around the whole route was 55mpg, this being 10mpg better than I got from the Fabia over the whole test route or 22%.

It is when I got to driving like a learner that the big difference showed. The Fabia had scored very well on the fast drive, down the lanes like a lunatic, the Mini was nowhere near as fast between bends (faster in them mind) and fuel consumption was a little better than the Fabia. I would concur with Evo on the 36mpg figure for entertaining driving. However, around the houses, doing turns in the road, left reverses, pottering around in traffic, a bit of dual carriageway, representative of the sort of driving I do most of the time, the Mini climbed to a 55mpg average. On this type of driving, my Fabia only manages to do around 42mpg.

On another tack, one of my pupils today confirmed his sister was beginning her driving lessons with another instructor. Although he had recommended me, his sister wanted lessons in a Mini. Sort of makes my mind up.

Only thing now is deciding the spec:

Chilli Pack gives me the seats with lumbar adjustment and part leather upholstery. Seems indulgent, but people forever getting in and out scuffs and wears the side and edge bolsters, so part leather could be a good idea. Also gives scope for colour matched interior parts for better resale. On the downside, I end up with 195/55R16 runflats, which are not cheap to replace. Come in at just over £16.5K

Going for the Pepper Pack, I can add sport seats, but no lumbar adjustment unless I spend another £450 on half leather (£665 on seats alone), but if I forgo the lumbar adjustment, I get the rest for around £15.5K and end up on 175/65R15s, of the conventional variety, which at around £38 - £50 per corner to replace are nicer. On the downside, Chilli pack cars sell for a fair bit more because of the bigger alloys.

Will have to go and spend some time in a non lumbar adjustable car. Decision time very soon.

Also today saw a Fiat 500 under a headboard in Essex. Red with the white waistline stripes. It looked good and it's driver was probably experiencing 60mpg if it were the 1.3 diesel.

Chris

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Chilli and then replace the runflats with conventional tyres when the time comes Chris? I know quite a few Mini drivers who have done this, and carry a can of tyre weld.

Steve

Misses has the pepper pack in the one and the upgraded speakers.

Very nice IMHO.

Chilli seems to make sense if you really want the seats as you will be spending a hell of a long time in them.

I'd actually stick with the runflats as I think they are a good idea myself and if you have a good hunt not that much worse than normal tyres in that size.

Chilli and then replace the runflats with conventional tyres when the time comes Chris? I know quite a few Mini drivers who have done this, and carry a can of tyre weld.

Steve

Hi Steve, it is the size that is expansive. Even no runflats are pricey in that size. Mind you, whichever option I go for, there are some good tyres available, particularly from Nokian who I rate very highly.

Chris

Out of my depth here but mustn't a car for driving test have a spare wheel if it does not have run flats?

Would tyre weld do?