I don't use my felicia 98 1.6 GLXi very much and the battery volts get a bit low. The car wouldn't start last year and after a lot of voltage checking I changed the battery and things seemed ok. I thought the old battery was losing charge quicker than my limited mileage (2000/year) was replacing it.

I'd like to know how many amps the regulator will tell the alternator to push into the battery at voltages from 12 up to 14 volts. I'm concerned that the battery is being charged at too high a current because of my low mileage. Do I need to find another way to keep the battery charged. I can't find any info on the voltage regulator on the web. Anyone have any links?

welcome to briskoda

I don't use my felicia 98 1.6 GLXi very much and the battery volts get a bit low. The car wouldn't start last year and after a lot of voltage checking I changed the battery and things seemed ok. I thought the old battery was losing charge quicker than my limited mileage (2000/year) was replacing it.

I'd like to know how many amps the regulator will tell the alternator to push into the battery at voltages from 12 up to 14 volts. I'm concerned that the battery is being charged at too high a current because of my low mileage. Do I need to find another way to keep the battery charged. I can't find any info on the voltage regulator on the web. Anyone have any links?

Hi cjcj

First thing on that sort of mileage there would be a lack of charge rate, but depends on how you do your 2000 miles, 2000/365=5.47 miles a day so if that's how you are getting your mileage then it should not be too much of a problem, but if the car is left for weeks/months at a time with out being used then that's where your problem is, you need to find a charger that can be left on all the time (till you want to use the car)but you need a charger that will turn its self on and off as the battery needs it.

As for the regulator, I would not worry about that as its the battery that decides what current to put out from the alternator.

My concern is that it might not be putting enough into the battery, you need to do some tests?

1, what is the voltage of the battery when the car has been sat for a couple of hours without running?

2, what is the voltage when the engine is running(about 1200/1500rpm)?

Radiotwo

Have a similar problem with very low mileage..

Problem was solved by getting

a Solar Powered 12 volt Battery Trickle Charger.

Got mine last year from Maplins the Model number is 98358 and order code

is L58BF cost about £20.

Just plug it into the cig lighter socket and it trickle charges battery

as long as some sort of light, not just sunlight hits it..

Hi cjcj

First thing on that sort of mileage there would be a lack of charge rate, but depends on how you do your 2000 miles, 2000/365=5.47 miles a day so if that's how you are getting your mileage then it should not be too much of a problem, but if the car is left for weeks/months at a time with out being used then that's where your problem is, you need to find a charger that can be left on all the time (till you want to use the car)but you need a charger that will turn its self on and off as the battery needs it.

As for the regulator, I would not worry about that as its the battery that decides what current to put out from the alternator.

My concern is that it might not be putting enough into the battery, you need to do some tests?

1, what is the voltage of the battery when the car has been sat for a couple of hours without running?

2, what is the voltage when the engine is running(about 1200/1500rpm)?

Radiotwo

It goes up to 12.6, 12.7 volts after 4 hours of motorway driving. The next day that is after surface charge has gone. It's 12.2 at the moment as my last long drive was 6 months ago. When I measured the volts after starting it was 14.10 at about 1200 rpm.

Figures sound OK. But remember, if the battery's old (as you say) and even has run flat a few times it can lose charge fairly quick.

As Radiotwo says, if you need an extra charger very much depend on how you're getting the mileage. If the car is rolling at least once every week I'd probably go for a new battery if I were you.

Might be worth checking for "leaks". Remove the earth cable and use a multimeter for checking the current between battery's - pole and earth. It shouldn't be too many milliamps (clock, radio feed, and I guess that the ECU needs something to keep it's settings).

Have a similar problem with very low mileage..

Problem was solved by getting

a Solar Powered 12 volt Battery Trickle Charger.

Got mine last year from Maplins the Model number is 98358 and order code

is L58BF cost about £20.

Just plug it into the cig lighter socket and it trickle charges battery

as long as some sort of light, not just sunlight hits it..

I bought one last year from Ebay and it did seem to work last year but after a long run in June I convinced myself it wasn't needed and I've had no problems starting since and I assumed it wasn't needed until I checked the volts and found they were only 12.2 and I read that you need to keep the battery above 12.4 to avoid sulphation. My solar charger only gives 10ma in strong sunshine, but it does seem to be keeping the volts up. It's up to 12.39 v with the charger connected. What current does your charger give. It seems to vary all the time and I'm not convinced my DVM is giving a sensible reading. Perhaps I need a better solar charger. Thanks for the part number.

leaving it running for 5 minutes each day should charge it more than a solar charger.

If the car's kept in a powered garage, try a web search for battery savers.

The other figures all sound pretty ok to me. The alternator has a maximum charge rate that it can't exceed (a matter of physics), and the function of the regulator (aka control box) is to regulate the actual output below that level according to demands from battery and electrics in use.

Welcome

If the car's kept in a powered garage, try a web search for battery savers.

The other figures all sound pretty ok to me. The alternator has a maximum charge rate that it can't exceed (a matter of physics), and the function of the regulator (aka control box) is to regulate the actual output below that level according to demands from battery and electrics in use.

It's the control loop that I'm interested in. Is it on/off or proportional control. I can't find anything that will tell me how the process works. I want to know how many amps are going into the battery at a given battery voltage level. If anyone has a clamp ammeter perhaps they could measure it, or perhaps I'll go and buy one.

Thanks for all the help, you've sorted things out. I forgot that the voltage regulator keeps the battery voltage at about 14volts and that the charge current to the battery is defined by the battery itself. A good flat battery will take more amps than an old knackered one. The design works ok if you use the car a lot. I've just taken my battery out and put it on a proper propeak digital charger and I've managed to put 8 amp hours into it and the charge current is now down to 1.2 amps so it'l take about another 30 hours to fully charge it.

The break even point is 5 mins a day, but that only charges at two amps on my 12.2V low charge no maintenance battery. That only maintains the state of charge so if you start off with a fully charged battery, it will keep it fully charged.

The book says it should be constant voltage charged which is what my pro-peak charger is doing.

The solar charger even my one that only gives out only 10ma will also keep the battery charged, so long as it's fully charged/new. If you flatten the battery you have to replace 44 or 55 Ah to get it fully charged and at 3Ah a month that will take about a year at either maintenance scheme.

If you drive to recharge a flat battery it will take about 20 hours which a lot of people will do in a month.

A new battery is a good idea as we only lose about 3Ah a month, so it should last about a year or so before it gets so low that it's being damaged.

I'll be leaving my solar charger connected this time after I've charged my battery.

If it doesn't keep the volts up at 12.6/12.7 then I'll get the charger from Maplins that someone is using. Also I'll try and get the garage clear so I can use a smart charger on it, without having to disconnect the battery. I'm not sure if my pro-peak charger is safe as I don't have a scope to look at the peak voltages being sent to the battery.

This is of interest to people who use their cars more but have alarms with constant current drain. Their batteries may not be as well charged as they think. Still it's good business for the airport staff who helpfully fast charge your battery, so its now in even worse condition than before. I think on one of the threads they overvolted the electronics and destroyed the whole car.

I used to have a battery condition meter in my 1980 Horizon which was very useful when the battery started to overcharge. I switched on all the load, stabalized the volts until I fixed it. I don't know why they didn't become standard fits. At least you could see a problem before it got serious.

Thanks again.

Anyone whose seen a voltmeter I could install permanently or a way of using rechargeable batteries to boost the battery volts, please send me the links.

I used to have a battery condition meter in my 1980 Horizon which was very useful when the battery started to overcharge. I switched on all the load, stabalized the volts until I fixed it.

Yes, the French have (had?) a passion for voltmeters. I had one in my 1973 Citroën (instead of the standard charge warning lamp) and they are sometimes very useful. If you take your question to the Favorit/Felicia/Fun section I'm sure someone who has installed a separate voltmeter can give you advice on where to find one that fits well in/on the dashboard.

A useful thread. I have moved it to the Felicia forum where it is more likely to be seen in the future.

Stop flapping about amps and volts and control loops!! If you are going to leave the car for more than a couple of weeks, after a good run, then disconnest the battery leads. this will stop the cars electrics from draining the battery, ie stereo memory feed, immobiliser etc etc. If you have a problem starting the car afterwards then you need to look at the battery for a problem this will most probably be a dead cell . the best way to check this is to check the specific gravity with a hydrometer or a refractometer, a good battery will give a reading of 1.25-1.3 ( this is a relative reading to water which has a gravity of 1. anything much below this on a battery showing 12v will be the cause of the dead cell

Stop flapping about amps and volts and control loops!! If you are going to leave the car for more than a couple of weeks, after a good run, then disconnest the battery leads. this will stop the cars electrics from draining the battery, ie stereo memory feed, immobiliser etc etc. If you have a problem starting the car afterwards then you need to look at the battery for a problem this will most probably be a dead cell . the best way to check this is to check the specific gravity with a hydrometer or a refractometer, a good battery will give a reading of 1.25-1.3 ( this is a relative reading to water which has a gravity of 1. anything much below this on a battery showing 12v will be the cause of the dead cell

The common sense approach doesn't allways work. Sometimes things need careful analysis. I agree with you that a battery should be fully charged after a long run, but it ain't necessarily so. Checking the SG used to be a good idea until they invented mainenance free batteries. If you don't want to learn that's ok, but don't condemn others to your fate. I get quite long periods when I'm not able to do anything on the car and I'm not able to predict when.

Gentlemen, please, don't get too exalted! No need for the "Stop flapping..." or "If you don't want to learn..." remarks We're seriously trying to sort out problems here

Rigsby's advice is sound if the car is left for a longer period. Some kind of battery switch makes the job easier. We once had an Audi in the family with an intermittent decharging problem and mounted a device that looked like this one:

Battery Disconnect Switch

although on the website the thingy has got an extra gadget, a separate fused wire for feeding radio &c which should not be used here for obvious reasons

But at the same time I can very well understand cjcj's frustration - if the problem arise afte a shorter period there's a fault somewhere that one wants to sort out.

I would check the normal battery drain using a reasonably accurate multimeter. Don't know what clock, radio feed &c consume, nor if the Felly immobiliser uses anything (I've learnt here that it's a "passive" immobiliser, whatever that is) but say 0.05 A? In that case it's a matter of calculation: just above 1 Ah per day, 10 Ah per week... comparable to leaving the car with sidelights on for 6 hrs.

If the battery lose charge faster than actual drain suggests I would blame the battery itself (dead cell due to age and previous draining).

Any car should start after 1 week in the garage or on the driveway - even in winter. If the problem only arises after 2 weeks or more, I would probably go for the disconnect option. Only strong argument against would be if a disconnected battery will give you trouble with the ECU settings, I'm not sure about that?

It's the control loop that I'm interested in. Is it on/off or proportional control. I can't find anything that will tell me how the process works. I want to know how many amps are going into the battery at a given battery voltage level. If anyone has a clamp ammeter perhaps they could measure it, or perhaps I'll go and buy one.

Hi Again,

You don't state your location !

I have a clamp on ampmeter, and a battery condition tester ! if you are close enough I could check it for you.

Radiotwo

I tried to post a reply last night but it vanished. Sorry if I have offended. It's all too easy to offend people and it's usually unintentional and then it gets worse and worse.

Thanks for the offer of a clamp ammeter, but the problem is solved as far as I'm concerned. Somebody mentioned that the charge taken by the battery is down to physics and I can see that now. Somebody else mentioned that they use a solar battery charger and that works if you don't do many miles. The safest thing to do if you can plan ahead like parking when going on holiday is to disconnect the battery.

I'm surprised how slowly the battery charges. I the battery gets flattened for any reason then it takes a long time to recharge.

I think in volts and amps as I'm an electronic engineer but I don't have access to any information on how modern charging systems work.

The physics comment was me, and all I meant by it was that you can't get more power out of the alternator than it was designed to give. No offence was taken; just remember that, with very few exceptions, all we know for sure is how much we know, and not how much the other guys know.