Washing Machine

[soviet]

My Hoover washer gave up the ghost yesterday and went to meet it's maker.

I had a man out to repair it, but it was grave news. unfortunately the buffoons who delivered it forgot to take out a 2 foot length of packing polystyrene which burnt the motor and computer board out, rendering said washer into a pile of scrap iron. Still it did well to last eight years with such a disability.

The repair guy said that there have been loads of takeovers in the washing machine industry lately ( as you can imagine, I was on the edge of my seat!) And most of the former British brands are owned by the Italians now.

He said the best place to put my money was with John Lewis own brand washers, or pay megabucks for a Meile washer.

Monster in law has a Meile and they are very good, but I can't afford a grand for a washer, so leaning towards the John Lewis upstart.

Anyone have a John Lewis washer? Are they any good?

Hi PittVRS,

Sorry to here of your problems here, but most washing machines are coming with instruction sheets for installation, and so it is always the good idea to check that the transportation packaging inside of this is removed first. I think that you were the lucky one, to have the use of he the machine for the 8 years, but surely there was vibration, and much noise during this period?

I know that John Lewis is always giving a 5 year guarantee for all TV sets that are bought here, and so I am not sure if this is the same for the washing machine, but maybe you can check this.

I always get the Bosch, or AEG, manufacturers machines, as they give good long term reliability, but the price is not so cheap, and so you need to shop around I think.

Best of luck to you.

Soviet:rolleyes:

[Kentish]

Hello Des, how are you m8?

Hope D and the "kids" are good:):wavey::wavey::wavey:

[Clunkclick]

IMHO more consideration ought to be given to designing for durability rather than down to a price. Particularly with the energy costs of manufacturing and disposal in mind.

As was implied in the earlier posts, the budget machines are designed to a price which will maximise the manufacturer's profit in that part of the market.

This ain't very socially responsible or eco friendly. The price gap between the highest and the lowest needs closing. I would suggest that that is easier to do from the top down.

You can't tell me that all of, or even a substantial part of the £1000 difference between the mid-range Meile and the bottom rung machines in the market, which incidentally probably have near enough the same functionality, is contributed by costs of production. There's a small portion, probably 15-20% max , which is due to the better and more durable design, parts and materials, packing and transport, but, lets face it, most of the difference is added marketing costs (Adverts in Good Housekeeping), other dodgy management costs and excess profit taken at the various stages, in the knowledge that they know that their target market likes to distinguish itself by buying products that are prestigously priced and isn't too price sensitive.

Given that the budget machines probably make up 80% of the market, I have thought that if a 15% increase in the cost of inputs to the budget machines would triple or quadruple their life expectancy, then consumers would see the economic argument and shell out accordingly. The only losers would be manufacturers whose sales would go down, in a one-off adjustment.

If the average bod is only spending sufficient to buy a machine that'll be on its last legs in under three years, then manufacturers ought to be compelled on Eco grounds, say through EU legislation, to only offer machines that last say 10 -15 years or whatever period is equivalent to the Major technology cycle for such devices and minimising the life cycle energy costs and carbon footprint.

Here's the EU, imposing legislation to deal with the back-end of the product life-cycle by making manufacturers responsible for safe disposal, while doing nothing to reduce the frequency of occurence at the front-end. Crazy !

Nick.

[Clunkclick]

Water or softener being left behind in the conditioner tray will more than likely be a clogged syphon or blocked dispenser jets. The syphon is easily cleaned by removing the whole draw the lifting up and away the syphon cap. You can then clean out the cap and at the same time clean the tray itself. The dispenser jets can be cleaned with a stiff pan brush or something,they are in the roof of the dispenser and just normally need some brush action.

Done all that, to no effect. Clean water is still left in the conditioner section of the tray at the end of the wash, so either a point of inflow or outflow is partially blocked - the Electrolux I had previously never suffered from this problem - and the input water was never treated !

That said, the showerhead in the bathroom has similar needle type jets and these have to be cleaned regularly with acidic agent to keep them free of calcium deposits.

Rather than take the lid of the machine, which I suspect is what is needed in order to clear-out the tubes, I think I'll try applying some of the flushing agent powder to the conditioner compartment of the tray - though manufacturers of said agent recommend application only to the drum.

Nick

[Decron]

I usually recycle my washing machines. The steel in them is good for replacing the floor in a lot of older cars.

[VRStu]

Our new house is fitted with AEG appliances which I'd always regarded as reasonable products however they most certainly aren't!!

In the last place I had replaced everything with either Bosch or NEFF and couldn't speak more highly of them.

Sadly I can see that there is an expensive upgrade path looming ahead for me in the not so distant future.

[Tomo1971]

I know that the OP has had a new machine but a little advice here.......

We used to have a Zanussi machine, bought it in 2005 with a 1+4 yr warranty for a total of £500 ish, so if it lasted 5 yrs thats 100 a yr. Great we thought. Until we had a problem.

Every now and again it would get stuck on a cycle and need a "nudge" to move it on. Called out the peeps through the comet extended warranty. Couldnt find a fault but replaced the main control board. Fault still happend now and again. Comet came out a further 3 times, replacing various bits to no avail. At this point I called the warranty people and asked for a new machine. They said no as they have never seen the actual fault, only our word for it. I asked them what I should do then. They suggested that when it gets stuck on the programme we leave it. So how long will it take for an engineer to look at it if that happens.......... about 10 days. So they expected us to leave the machine on a fill/drain/spin for 10 days. Yeah right. Can imagine the explanation to the house insurance when the house burns down.

Cut our losses and bought a Meille. 10 yr in house gaurantee, only Meille engineers fix them, and they only fix meille appliances, not multi branded.

So, be very very wary of warranties from the likes of currys and comet.

I believe that some of them retain the right to fix with refurbished parts too!!

Steve

[Kentish]

Done all that, to no effect. Clean water is still left in the conditioner section of the tray at the end of the wash, so either a point of inflow or outflow is partially blocked - the Electrolux I had previously never suffered from this problem - and the input water was never treated !

Nick

So if it's clean water left behind, next check the front feet are lowered making the machine tilt back slightly. The cond syphon is at the rear of the tray, and only sucks what it can access. If the machine has settled into the floor or never been adjusted properly it will tip forward and cause this problem. If however you have the machine with it's slight backwards angle I still think the dispenser jets are restricted, probably with black algae type stuff.This will restrict the water flow into the cond tray thus not allowing enough water to flush the tray in time. Best way is to get the machine going at the conditioner filling point, remove the drawer and brush the dispenser roof where the water comes down. You will need a towel to mop up.You will probably see black gunk flushing away and notice and increase in the water through the holes. Refit the drawer and retry the machine. Taking the lid off will not help you out, nor will any chemical additives. The dispenser has water that only goes through the cold valve and 1 hose between the valve and dispenser after coming off the mains, so no additive's will make any difference.

The only other possibility could be if your AEG is one of the few with a separate solenoid for the conditioner tray. If it was though, you would not get any water through into the tray full stop.

HTH's

[Decron]

I believe that some of them retain the right to fix with refurbished parts too!!

Steve

It's not a retained right, it's a practice undertaken in a lot of industries and perfectly acceptable if up to standard.

[Kentish]

To the best of my knowledge, that only applies to certain makes motor's, Hotpoint for one (whereby they retain the old motor and replace all but the casing) when fitted by their own engineer's during warranty work, and Miele who I believe take back expensive parts such as PCB's and possibly rework them. They do that at an exchange price, and not the new price. The part they send you is classed as new, but you get a refund of a certain amount when the old part is received by them. I therefore assume the returned broken part is plugged into their diagnostics and corrected. All parts sent out by them still carry their full warranty and such.

[Delcac]

Hello Des, how are you m8?

Hope D and the "kids" are good:):wavey::wavey::wavey:

All doing well. Missed seeing you on here.

[Tech1e]

The motherboard recently packed up on out Hotpoint (fixed for £99 even though we didn't buy the machine from an authorised outlet and had no receipt which considering the MB was best part of £150 to buy wasn't to bad). From what the chap was telling me Hotpoint and Indesit (sp?) machines are all indentical now inside.

[runboy]

Our last house had zanussi stuff (all brand new) which was carp - always breaking down and parts taking weeks to come through. We now have Hotpoint stuff (washing, dishwasher, fridge/freezer, oven, hob, extractor) and all have been good except the oven which has needed a call out because it would turn itself on and off for no reason - still useable though.

When it comes to warranties it is worth looking at a third party who can cover nearly all electrical items in your home for one monthly payment - got to be cheaper than paying a few hundred for just the one product from Currys.

[Clunkclick]

Our new house is fitted with AEG appliances which I'd always regarded as reasonable products however they most certainly aren't!!

If I recall, AEG had a good reputation in the late '70's and '80s and then ran into financial difficulties in the early '90's and did the usual corporate Value Analysis (Cost reduction) and market widening (Uppping Sales revenue) exercise on their products. This resulted in less well engineered, more competitively priced machines being sold to a wider market - I recall in the early 90's when my parents replaced a 15 year old AEG machine, with then then current model the installing engineer advised that the new model wouldn't last as long as the one its was replacing, because it wasn't built as well.

When I made my recent purchase, I wasn't going to shell out £1,500 to £2,000 for a NEFF or £1,000 for a Meile, so I reckoned AEG, on past reputation would be a good compromise @ £600 - no major deals yet !

Mind you, it only gets used for two cycles a week !

Nick

[VRStu]

I think there are probably two quality levels within the AEG range, ours is all badged AEG Electrolux and I would suggest is the lower end of the market.

[Clunkclick]

As far as I'm concerned, garment washing is just more irritating domestic trivia, a left-over from a by-gone age.

Bring-on the disposable clothes, bed linen and towels.

The question is of course could it be done for the cost ?

Per person

Annual capital cost of a machine £100

Annual cost of finance £ 10

Washing powders/liquids/agents £100

Electricity (Assuming cold fill, £100

poly-cotton wash programme,

natural drying & 50% ironing)

Water (40 litres per week @ 3ppl) £ 62

Depreciation on conventional clothes £167

(Average wardrobe value £500,

with a life of 3 years)

Your time at Laundry workers rates £507

(1.5 hrs per week @ £6.50ph)

(Assuming front -loading automatic,

collection, separating, loading, unloading,

50% ironing, 50% hanging, folding

and stowing)

Total cost per person per annum £ 1046

or £20 per week or £0.81 per item

(Assuming a weekly thru put of 25 items

per person)

Just looking on the net, disposable items are priced as follows:- pillow cases work out @ £0.50 a throw, double bed sheets @ £1.24, bath towels @ £1.80, hand towels £1.20, shirts @£0.40, trousers @ £0.75 and boxers, vests and socks @£0.60.

Using a weighted average based on the composition of my weekly wash (25 Items) the weekly cost of disposables would be £18.38 - and of course, these prices reflect the current scale of production of the disposable garment sector which currently only serves specialist sectors i.e. health, workwear and travel.

Woo hoo !

Nick

Edited 25 August, 2008 by Clunkclick

[Kentish]

If I recall, AEG had a good reputation in the late '70's and '80s and then ran into financial difficulties in the early '90's and did the usual corporate Value Analysis (Cost reduction) and market widening (Uppping Sales revenue) exercise on their products. This resulted in less well engineered, more competitively priced machines being sold to a wider market - I recall in the early 90's when my parents replaced a 15 year old AEG machine, with then then current model the installing engineer advised that the new model wouldn't last as long as the one its was replacing, because it wasn't built as well.

When I made my recent purchase, I wasn't going to shell out £1,500 to £2,000 for a NEFF or £1,000 for a Meile, so I reckoned AEG, on past reputation would be a good compromise @ £600 - no major deals yet !

Mind you, it only gets used for two cycles a week !

Nick

Electrolux became the largest shareholder in AEG in the early 90's, as they were in Zanussi and Bendix/Tricity. All the washing products are now Zanussi based.

A new Miele washing machine can be had for around 550/600 £'s. Nothing is going to compete with them at that price, and they still are good for around 20 years. Neff is only available as built in appliances, and then they are mainly UK only.

[Decron]

As far as I'm concerned, garment washing is just more irritating domestic trivia, a left-over from a by-gone age.

Bring-on the disposable clothes, bed linen and towels.

The question is of course could it be done for the cost ?

Per person

Annual capital cost of a machine £100

Annual cost of finance £ 10

Washing powders/liquids/agents £100

Electricity (Assuming cold fill, £100

poly-cotton wash programme,

natural drying & 50% ironing)

Water (40 litres per week @ 3ppl) £ 62

Depreciation on conventional clothes £167

(Average wardrobe value £500,

with a life of 3 years)

Your time at Laundry workers rates £507

(1.5 hrs per week @ £6.50ph)

(Assuming front -loading automatic,

collection, separating, loading, unloading,

50% ironing, 50% hanging, folding

and stowing)

Total cost per person per annum £ 1046

or £20 per week or £0.81 per item

(Assuming a weekly thru put of 25 items

per person)

Just looking on the net, disposable items are priced as follows:- pillow cases work out @ £0.50 a throw, double bed sheets @ £1.24, bath towels @ £1.80, hand towels £1.20, shirts @£0.40, trousers @ £0.75 and boxers, vests and socks @£0.60.

Using a weighted average based on the composition of my weekly wash (25 Items) the weekly cost of disposables would be £18.38 - and of course, these prices reflect the current scale of production of the disposable garment sector which currently only serves specialist sectors i.e. health, workwear and travel.

Woo hoo !

Nick

My mind started to wander about 5 lines into that post and I ended up daydreaming about Pizza. I tried reading it a few times and all i could make out was "Disposable clothes under £20 for a week". Think I got the jist.......:P:D

Now I have a question about this: Do you really think that this is a good look?

Also, I would gladly pay good money to keep my missus out of these;

[Royston]

The washer arrived today, it's very white and doesn't quite fit in the hole due to a weird filter thing on the inlet hose. Maybe it's a filter, maybe it's a water softener, I just don't know and refuse to read the instructions.

It seems quite well screwed together, and has a 14 minute wash function! Cool. It has 21 programmes, which is a lot more than the Hoover, and is A rated for efficiency on all three cycles. It's very quiet and efficient.

In summary, It's white. It's a washing machine. It works.

[Wardy]

In summary, It's white. It's a washing machine. It works.

:woot:

I'm so happy right now.

[Decron]

In summary, It's white. It's a washing machine. It works.

Result!

[philc]

The washer arrived today, it's very white and doesn't quite fit in the hole due to a weird filter thing on the inlet hose. Maybe it's a filter, maybe it's a water softener.

It'll be a leak detecting shut off device (don't know the proper name). The inlet hose has a double wall, and if there's a pressure difference between the inner and outer it turns off the machine, or something like that. Someone who knows more than me will be along soon to clear up.

Our Miele has one.

Phil

[David 8]

Clunk- click

Have you gone completely insane or something, or are you bored.

................Why!!!

[Clunkclick]

My mind started to wander about 5 lines into that post and I ended up daydreaming about Pizza. I tried reading it a few times and all i could make out was "Disposable clothes under £20 for a week". Think I got the jist.......:P:D

Now I have a question about this: Do you really think that this is a good look?

Also, I would gladly pay good money to keep my missus out of these;

A real disincentive to owning up to wearing SWMBO's nether garments !

[Kentish]

Roy, it's an "aquastop", which basically is a mechanical blocker hose. You can use an ordinary plain inlet hose without fear if you so desire. However, could you not just enlarge the cabinet hole to the thing to go back further?