By the letter of which law?

As I saw it (and note I'm a Filipe and Lewis fan) Kimi forced Lewis off the road, Lewis let Kimi back past, then Kimi spent so long swerving all over the road that Lewis more or less had to overtake him, then finally Kimi rammed Lewis on the RH rear tyre.

Spot on that man, have a coconut.

Personally i think F1 needs to take a leaf out of the British Touring Cars(its crazy) All these decisions spoil the races if you ask me, Didnt think Kovalainen deserved a penalty either.

This is racing is it not?

I'm with you on this one

F1 is total boredom unless something like this happens :eek:

I think they should bring in the extra point & fastest lap(Just so they can take it back off Hamilton )

The racing is now done in the pits and the courts. No wonder the US never took to F1, its too full of this crap.

The racing is now done in the pits and the courts. No wonder the US never took to F1, its too full of this crap.

But it has been for years, this season is no different from the last 10 or 15 years. Incidents like this polarize opinions depending on who you support.

Hamilton, for all his natural talent, hasn't got a fully developed racers brain so he makes mistakes. He's learning and has shown a more mature attitude this year by driving for points and not the all or nothing approach he used last year. But this race he fell back on his old habits.

It is being said that Hamilton has taken over from Michael schumacher as the 'rain master' and he certainly has a greater confidence than most in the wet, but he has also lifted some of MS' worst habits such as driving into your opponent (anyone remember Canada this year and his pit lane swerve to end his and his opponents races?)

The race was there for the taking, he didn't need to make that particular move, but in doing so he broke the rules. He/they should take the penalty and move on, but instead McDennis wants to have another battle with the FIA due to last years events.

Frankly, I think McDennis is just a big whinger and the sooner he retires, the better for everyone in and out of F1. I think Martin Whitmarsh would make a much better team principle for Mclaren and would elevate the teams standing in the eyes of the competition, the governing body and the viewing public.

The upside to all this though, is that there's only a week to Monza and tempers will, no doubt, still be frayed, so it could turn out to be one of the best races of the season

I don't especially like LH, I don't mind Ron Dennis though.

I actually quite like Massa but couldn't support him all the time he drives that car.

Case prescident says that, if you make up a place by cutting a corner, and then give it back, no further action should be taken. Accordingly, the penalty is wrong. End of.

Yes, I'm a Lewis Hamilton fan, but I'm also a Filipe Massa fan, and I'm not a fan of Team McSlimeball.

But it has been for years, this season is no different from the last 10 or 15 years. Incidents like this polarize opinions depending on who you support.

Hamilton, for all his natural talent, hasn't got a fully developed racers brain so he makes mistakes. He's learning and has shown a more mature attitude this year by driving for points and not the all or nothing approach he used last year. But this race he fell back on his old habits.

It is being said that Hamilton has taken over from Michael schumacher as the 'rain master' and he certainly has a greater confidence than most in the wet, but he has also lifted some of MS' worst habits such as driving into your opponent (anyone remember Canada this year and his pit lane swerve to end his and his opponents races?)

The race was there for the taking, he didn't need to make that particular move, but in doing so he broke the rules. He/they should take the penalty and move on, but instead McDennis wants to have another battle with the FIA due to last years events.

Frankly, I think McDennis is just a big whinger and the sooner he retires, the better for everyone in and out of F1. I think Martin Whitmarsh would make a much better team principle for Mclaren and would elevate the teams standing in the eyes of the competition, the governing body and the viewing public.

The upside to all this though, is that there's only a week to Monza and tempers will, no doubt, still be frayed, so it could turn out to be one of the best races of the season

there speaks the ferrari fan..

I actually quite like Massa but couldn't support him all the time he drives that car.

The problem with Massa is that I know the moment I switched my allegiance to him he'd start performing like a Sunday League third team after they'd all been to a wedding reception the night before!

The words 'Massa' and 'consistency' aren't usually uttered in the same sentance unless it goes something like "It's Massa's lack of consistency that loses him the drivers championship each year".

there speaks the ferrari fan..

I cannot, for a moment, understand how you came to that conclusion after reading my neutral, balanced and well researched commentary on yesterdays incident

. . . . . . . oh ok, so I like the red team a bit more than the silver and black team then

I cannot, for a moment, understand how you came to that conclusion after reading my neutral, balanced and well researched commentary on yesterdays incident

. . . . . . . oh ok, so I like the red team a bit more than the silver and black team then

bet you have the hat and the shirt and posters too.... just like most ferrari fan boys the real deal escapes you .........

Oh come on boys admit it, we are all Force India fans at heart;).

Oh come on boys admit it, we are all Force India fans at heart;).

I used to support Jordan if that's any help

Hello and welcome to the Self Help group Dr Zoidberg

bet you have the hat and the shirt and posters too.... just like most ferrari fan boys the real deal escapes you .........

"real deal" :confused:

Sorry redbaron, your powers of perception have failed you on this one.

I have never found any sport or team game worthy of supporting by dressing like a complete prat - it's also why I don't play golf

"real deal"

Sorry redbaron, your powers of perception have failed you on this one.

I have never found any sport or team game worthy of supporting by dressing like a complete prat - it's also why I don't play golf

why all the Mclaren hatred then? is that not the style of a "fanboy" ?

why all the Mclaren hatred then? is that not the style of a "fanboy" ?

My dislike of McDennis is due to his attitude and the way he tries to manipulate the media into making out that he's hard done by and that the FIA (and everyone else) has it in for him.

His attitude to the spying row last year and in particular his contempt for anyone who suggested his involvement (it's only HIS team after all) had me reaching for the bucket!

I actually don't particularly mind Mclaren as a team and although I'm no great Lewis fan, I recognise his supreme talent. That's also why I said I'd like to see Martin Whitmarsh take over, as he has a much more balanced outlook and would help to restore the teams reputation.

My dislike of McDennis is due to his attitude and the way he tries to manipulate the media into making out that he's hard done by and that the FIA (and everyone else) has it in for him.

His attitude to the spying row last year and in particular his contempt for anyone who suggested his involvement (it's only HIS team after all) had me reaching for the bucket!

I actually don't particularly mind Mclaren as a team and although I'm no great Lewis fan, I recognise his supreme talent. That's also why I said I'd like to see Martin Whitmarsh take over, as he has a much more balanced outlook and would help to restore the teams reputation.

so you choose to ignore the fact that every team and team principle does exactly the same? Pathetic.

Nikki Lauda has had a go now, he's quite an influential F1 charachter so hopefully it will make their ears stand up. :hyper:

"This is the worst judgment in the history of F1. The most perverted judgment I have ever seen. It's absolutely unacceptable when three functionaries (the stewards) influence the championship like this."

so you choose to ignore the fact that every team and team principle does exactly the same? Pathetic.

I'm not sure what you've been watching, but in general most team principles do not manipulate the media in such a blatant way.

It should also be noted that no other team in recent history has been accused of 'fradulent conduct' by a WMSC hearing (which initially went un punished). Mclaren had in its posession information on the design, development and tactics of a competitors car - that's breaking the rules or cheating. At every opportunity McDennis denied his teams involvement or suggested that no one knew about it, yet this was later found to be untrue as his star driver, test driver and chief designer had been exchanging information about it!

Unless you work for a government department, the buck stops at the top.

Originally Posted by Nikki Lauda

"This is the worst judgment in the history of F1. The most perverted judgment I have ever seen. It's absolutely unacceptable when three functionaries (the stewards) influence the championship like this."

I would be thinking he knows a little bit about it all, and for someone like him to make that statment should get everyone thinking hard about the results

I'm not sure what you've been watching, but in general most team principles do not manipulate the media in such a blatant way.

It should also be noted that no other team in recent history has been accused of 'fradulent conduct' by a WMSC hearing (which initially went un punished). Mclaren had in its posession information on the design, development and tactics of a competitors car - that's breaking the rules or cheating. At every opportunity McDennis denied his teams involvement or suggested that no one knew about it, yet this was later found to be untrue as his star driver, test driver and chief designer had been exchanging information about it!

Unless you work for a government department, the buck stops at the top.

I love the way you quote half a story yet again...... as everybody knows data has transfered between F1 teams since the year dot.

I am not going to argue with an idiot anymore... you will beat me on experience.

I think the rules are so complicated that they are open to various interpretations, especially as the stewards have not always been seen to uphold the letter of the law previously. But surely the main thing is we want to see a sporting competition, one where the combatants do their talking on the pitch (so to speak). All this back room lawyer stuff is not sport and it never will be. The FIA need to remember that it may be a big business, but it only exists because people want to watch actually motor cars race each other round a twisty bit of tarmac, nothing more. Simple.

Make me head of the FIA with unlimited power and I will make it so, as well as bring back slick tyres, ban silly wings and let them have bigger engines with just a tad too much power in them (thus people wont be worrying about finding and extra 10bhp). Anyone who whinges will be taken out and made to drink a shot of vodka for every time he mentions ‘we’, ‘the team’, ‘in testing’ and ‘XXXX braked too early’ in his excuse, then made to run around in circles until he is sick.

I love the way you quote half a story yet again...... as everybody knows data has transfered between F1 teams since the year dot.

I am not going to argue with an idiot anymore... you will beat me on experience.

I'm neither an idiot (a dictionary should help you here - it's that book you've never opened on the shelf) and I wasn't aware we were arguing as that would require a counter point and you don't seem to have any.

If you had read my last post fully you'll see that I stated that they were accused of 'fradulent conduct' by the WMSC, that isn't to say that data hasn't been transfered between teams in the past, it says that only Mclaren have been stupid enough to get caught and it was McDennis' attitude to that guilt that cemented my dislike of the man - an opinon that I'm sure others on here would feel I'm entitled to hold and to state (even if they don't agree with it).

I'm neither an idiot (a dictionary should help you here - it's that book you've never opened on the shelf) and I wasn't aware we were arguing as that would require a counter point and you don't seem to have any.

I don’t want to flame this argument, but you state you are “neither an idiot……. “ or ???

Schizophrenia of course is a good get out of jail card here.

Ok the arguement is over Hamilton deserved his penalty, ni matter what anybody says the arguement is now over and we have proof, after hearing this and seeing it I expect this to be admitted if its not then their is an issue with peoples sanity.

Dailymotion - www.FormulaMag.com - Hamilton-Kimi, a video from Budhardt. F1, Belgium, 2008, Hamilton, ???????

This my friends is on board exclusive footage of the lap in question, you will ride on Hamiltons car and see that Kimi broke early and that Lewis was not ahead in the corner but tellingly you will also NOT hear a LIFT or an EASE off of the throttle from Hamilton.

This arguement is now dead and over thankfully.