Wheel Alignment the big con!

[wheels-inmotion]

Problems:

- When letting go of the steering wheel, car pulls left strongly, and steering wheel sits left-of-centre

- I can feel it pulling when driving normally - sometimes it will "crab" to the left fairly violently

- N/S Rear tyre "feathering" with patches of increased wear on N/S edge

- N/S Front tyre wearing faster on the outside edge (however only by around 1mm)

Recent work:

- New solid console bushes fitted in Feb - consoles were removed from car

- Coilover suspension fitted in Feb

- 4 wheel laser alignment carried out by AA Tyres in Cardiff - Toe was adjusted to OE Spec.

None of the above problems existed BEFORE this work was done

Any ideas?

Print off below:

The camber positions are consistent with the lowering and will generate tyre wear..... Why didn't they correct the toe angles?

[ultra_joel88]

The camber positions are consistent with the lowering and will generate tyre wear..... Why didn't they correct the toe angles?

on the front they did... is is adjustable on the rear?

[wheels-inmotion]

on the front they did... is is adjustable on the rear?

Camber and toe is by using a shim plate.

[green beard]

Wow I am glad to find this thread and hope you can help me out, I'll try cut and paste my query in 'ask a tech to here for you, its a fabia vrs.

I have both fronts wearing more on the inside, about 2mm when rest of tyre is 4-5mm.

Have just had tracking checked (four wheel laser) and its been set at 2mm (each wheel) when factory reccomended is 1mm, however I seem to recall seeing 'set at zero' being the advice on here but that would mean even more wear on inside?

Should I have it set at 3mm? or more??

Had a 'full geo' when I fitted coilovers and it didnt show anything too far out, camber is 1.5 degrees both sides and caster is 5'12' and 5'30'.

Should I try get the camber down to about 1 degree?

Hope someone can help as its costing me money in tyres, this is second set cos I thought it was all ok, T1-Rs and now Pilot Exaltos only done 10k on both of them.

There it is and I can provide printout if you need would be amazing if I can be told exactly what is wrong

[wheels-inmotion]

Wow I am glad to find this thread and hope you can help me out, I'll try cut and paste my query in 'ask a tech to here for you, its a fabia vrs.

I have both fronts wearing more on the inside, about 2mm when rest of tyre is 4-5mm.

Have just had tracking checked (four wheel laser) and its been set at 2mm (each wheel) when factory reccomended is 1mm, however I seem to recall seeing 'set at zero' being the advice on here but that would mean even more wear on inside?

Should I have it set at 3mm? or more??

Had a 'full geo' when I fitted coilovers and it didnt show anything too far out, camber is 1.5 degrees both sides and caster is 5'12' and 5'30'.

Should I try get the camber down to about 1 degree?

Hope someone can help as its costing me money in tyres, this is second set cos I thought it was all ok, T1-Rs and now Pilot Exaltos only done 10k on both of them.

There it is and I can provide printout if you need would be amazing if I can be told exactly what is wrong

If the wear is around 10% of the tyres total width and smooth then the problem is camber, no amount of toe manipulation will help resolve this.

A move in the camber to around -45' to -1degree is a sound platform assuming you have adjustment available?

[green beard]

I'll check on the percentage wear but prob is around 10%, hardly noticeable to the eye its just when you get the tyre depth gauge out that you see it.

Sadly camber is not adjustable I have found out, its only possible to balance it out with a move of the subframe (I think) but mine is pretty close at -1'24' and -1'30 left and right respectively.

I guess all I can do is keep an eye on tyre wear and juggle tyres around to compensate.

Thanks a lot for your help with this

[ultra_joel88]

I'll check on the percentage wear but prob is around 10%, hardly noticeable to the eye its just when you get the tyre depth gauge out that you see it.

Sadly camber is not adjustable I have found out, its only possible to balance it out with a move of the subframe (I think) but mine is pretty close at -1'24' and -1'30 left and right respectively.

I guess all I can do is keep an eye on tyre wear and juggle tyres around to compensate.

Thanks a lot for your help with this

I too am having tyre problems with coilovers mate, guess it just comes with the territory.

[wheels-inmotion]

I'll check on the percentage wear but prob is around 10%, hardly noticeable to the eye its just when you get the tyre depth gauge out that you see it.

Sadly camber is not adjustable I have found out, its only possible to balance it out with a move of the subframe (I think) but mine is pretty close at -1'24' and -1'30 left and right respectively.

I guess all I can do is keep an eye on tyre wear and juggle tyres around to compensate.

Thanks a lot for your help with this

Up the tyre pressure by one or two psi and have the toe position moved toward positive.... This will minimize the damage.

[wheels-inmotion]

I too am having tyre problems with coilovers mate, guess it just comes with the territory.

No modification is without consequence, evermore so when you go low.... I recommend the same as the post above, up the pressure and move the toe angle.

[Balham]

Thanks for replying. Yeah this is a confusing one for me! My answers:

*To hold the car in a straight line, I need to have the wheel turned right hand down (clockwise from central) by a few degrees.

*If I release the wheel, the car drifts to the left gradually, and continues to drift left on a constant turn.

*I wouldn't say I have to really resist it, I can just dangle a little finger on the steering wheel to hold the car straight. I don't have to fight any high forces. But if I let go of the wheel, the car just goes into a nice consistant left turn!

I have exactly the same symptoms as this! However, I haven't had any suspension changes to my car (Octavia Vrs), but I did notice it after a service last weekend. I called the dealer and they said they wouldn't have caused it as they just do an inspection, but it is very coincidental that I noticed it *immediately* afterwards... I'm going to Supertyres in Welwyn Garden City next weekend the them to check it out.

[ultra_joel88]

I noticed the other day, I was on a flat piece of road, let go of the steering wheel and crawled along in first, steering wheel pulled left and rested about 20degrees off centre... got out to look at the front wheels and left side was poking out in this sort of fasion (imagine lines are front wheels and you are looking down on them)

\ ----------------- I

Car has been pulling left, would this suggest too much positive toe on the passenger side wheel?

[wheels-inmotion]

I noticed the other day, I was on a flat piece of road, let go of the steering wheel and crawled along in first, steering wheel pulled left and rested about 20degrees off centre... got out to look at the front wheels and left side was poking out in this sort of fasion (imagine lines are front wheels and you are looking down on them)

\ ----------------- I

Car has been pulling left, would this suggest too much positive toe on the passenger side wheel?

No.... Front "toe/ alignment/ tracking" is the only angle on a car that's shared. If let's say you hit the kerb and displace the front near side toe by 10mm then as soon as you steer ahead the toe angle will be shared between each wheel 5mm/ 5mm. The reason for this is the fact the toe angle is linked via the steering rack, the only evidence there's a problem would be an off-set steering wheel.

[wheels-inmotion]

I have exactly the same symptoms as this! However, I haven't had any suspension changes to my car (Octavia Vrs), but I did notice it after a service last weekend. I called the dealer and they said they wouldn't have caused it as they just do an inspection, but it is very coincidental that I noticed it *immediately* afterwards... I'm going to Supertyres in Welwyn Garden City next weekend the them to check it out.

Be sure they measure the castor position!!... It's not adjustable on the car but it's a vital part of the overall diagnostics. Since it's not adjustable many centres don't bother to measure it despite the fact it's part of the image you pay for within a geometry.

[Balham]

Be sure they measure the castor position!!... It's not adjustable on the car but it's a vital part of the overall diagnostics. Since it's not adjustable many centres don't bother to measure it despite the fact it's part of the image you pay for within a geometry.

WIM - stupid question time... what is the castor position, and why measure it if they can't adjust it?!

Thanks in advance.

[KenONeill]

WIM - stupid question time... what is the castor position, and why measure it if they can't adjust it?!

Thanks in advance.

You know the Octy (like many other cars) has a strut type front suspension. Simply put, the castor angle is the inclination of the line of the strut (from top to botton swivel) to the vertical (some would say to the ground, but the law of similar triangles apples here).

[wheels-inmotion]

WIM - stupid question time... what is the castor position, and why measure it if they can't adjust it?!

Thanks in advance.

The reason it should be measured is to ensure the problem is not the castor!

As for the question "what is" the castor position, i'm not sure if you want the actual value or an explanation of castor?

Ken gave a good example but in essence the castor has many duties, do you want me to explain them?

[dodger21]

need to have fabia vrs tracked or realigned has anyone used this firm Just Car Clinics Ltd

Unit 1 Maybrook Park Ind Est

Armley Road. found it on align my car .com uses Hunters equipment if so any idea of cost thanks.:confused:

[newskoda]

I used the aligmycar website and contacted dixon motorsports via email asking what they "would align my car to" if it wasn't right.

Their reply was "we can do this on our machine, we can give you any setting or factory setting for you.

It will be from £75-100 plus VAT"

Does this sound OK?

[KenONeill]

That's not unreasonable, provided the car actually has adjustable suspension, and that price includes shimming rear stubs if required given what they've said (read page 1 if you don't understand this). Furbie 1s don't as standard (other than front toe angle)

[newskoda]

That's not unreasonable, provided the car actually has adjustable suspension, and that price includes shimming rear stubs if required given what they've said (read page 1 if you don't understand this). Furbie 1s don't as standard (other than front toe angle)

yes is a furby vrs mk1.

Shimming rear stubs are a bad idea tho arnt they? when I had my escort i had them shimmed at elite in rainham and then printed me off a chart showing it was all perfect. Two months later i went back to elite for some bits and while it was there they again checked the alignment and told me the rear ones needed to be shimmed and said it was cost. I told them it had been shimmed by them 2 months ago so was surprised now they were telling me this. I got the fronts done anyway, and then the fitter said "while we sorted the fronts out the rear ones corrected themselves automatically so no need to shim"

Make of that what u will, but it sounds suspect to me.

Edited 15 April, 2010 by newskoda

[grr666]

i had them shimmed at elite in rainham and then printed me off a chart showing it was all perfect. Two months later i went back to elite for some bits and while it was there they again checked the alignment and told me the rear ones needed to be shimmed and said it was cost. I told them it had been shimmed by them 2 months ago so was surprised now they were telling me this. I got the fronts done anyway, and then the fitter said "while we sorted the fronts out the rear ones corrected themselves automatically so no need to shim"

Been going to elite in rainham for a few years now with 3 different cars.

I must say that they have always been reasonably priced, and last time I took a car there,

(My Furby) they wouldn't do the alignment because the console bushes were (and still are) worn

they wouldn't take my money saying it would be out of alignment very quickly due to the bush wear

and I'd be back in paying for it again. They didn't have to say that and could have easily charged me twice

in theory. I think that's pretty decent of them considering they could have made a good few bob out of

me for nothing much really. He said come back when they're done and then he'd take care of things.

[newskoda]

Been going to elite in rainham for a few years now with 3 different cars.

I must say that they have always been reasonably priced, and last time I took a car there,

(My Furby) they wouldn't do the alignment because the console bushes were (and still are) worn

they wouldn't take my money saying it would be out of alignment very quickly due to the bush wear

and I'd be back in paying for it again. They didn't have to say that and could have easily charged me twice

in theory. I think that's pretty decent of them considering they could have made a good few bob out of

me for nothing much really. He said come back when they're done and then he'd take care of things.

everyone has positive and negative experiences. They started off well when i first saw them 02 then progressively the fitters got younger and the quality of work decreased

I might give Dixon motorsport a go.

[Neo_VR]

Just to demonstrate...

Here are readings from a chassis with fully adjustable geo

[Tom_vRS]

Is that camber normal Col?

[haydj]

Interesting thread.

On my race car I've used string and poles to perform wheel alignment & adjust camber have found it very repeatable. I was planning on using the same technique on my new (to me) Fabia to check the alignment - then potentially make adjustments to my taste (more likely I'll end up taking it to a garage if its a long way out).

Is there a listing of the desired static settings for a standard car?