Superb, DSG and Hill Hold

[jcblincs]

well done !

[Supacabby]

He has agreed to take back my car and replace it with an identical model with a Hill Hold fitted.

Perfect end, just a shame you had the upset along the way but we all know motor dealers & manufacturers will do anything to wriggle if it's going to cost them money!

I guess your car will now be on the market as 'second hand' - could be a bargain for someone who wants that spec!

[billhum]

Perfect end, just a shame you had the upset along the way but we all know motor dealers & manufacturers will do anything to wriggle if it's going to cost them money!

I guess your car will now be on the market as 'second hand' - could be a bargain for someone who wants that spec!

I understand that the dealer has Skoda's permission to use it as a demonstrator.

[Tom_vRS]

Simply amazing result imho. A genuine mistake it seems being resolved in the correct way.

[mdk1]

That is good news

So your be the first person to own a second Superb 2, not bad going

[Mountainman]

Hi All,

What a fantastic result i have been following this tread with interest,dare i say that this would not happen if you drove an audi (cockmobile as per clarkson) or BMW

IE they would not swap the car just because of it not having "hill hold".

They would probably say this is a characteristic of the vehicle.

Regards Mountainman:thumbup:

[skoblah]

Congrats!

I would also say that Skoda UK have acquitted themselves well by agreeing to replace your car. So far most of the reviews of Skoda customer care I had read were mostly negative.

[billhum]

Congrats!

I would also say that Skoda UK have acquitted themselves well by agreeing to replace your car. So far most of the reviews of Skoda customer care I had read were mostly negative.

I certainly agree with that comment on Skoda UK.

I had wondered about outside influence on the dealer; his volte-face was fairly dramatic. Although he did say that the new car had been ordered almost as soon as I complained. We shall never know and it does not matter.

I am happy to remain a fan of the marque and I am looking forward to the new car. The point has aleady been made that I will be the only person to own two new Superbs in as many months, quite an honour.

[Bagpuss]

Glad it worked out so well, Bill.

Not sure what caused your dealer to change their mind, but it's good to see them do the right thing to keep you happy.

Bagpuss.

[xxleeus]

Characteristics of the box DSG 02E: • Great flexibility on the level of L `opening of the box • Starting with tendency to rampage • Mechanical blocking of carpark • Mécatronique integrated into the box • Kick down • Checking routine of starting (Launch Control) • Regulation of the creeping • Function of maintenance in coast (Hillholder) • Reduction of the couple D `clutch when the brake is tight

This is the 6 speed DSG.

The new 7 speed DSG might be different and the hillholder need to be ordered as an option.

I forgot to say how Hillholder works on DSG 6 - if the vehicle begins to move when stationary, with just light brake application, the clutch pressure is incrased and the vehicle is held in position.

[pault1965]

Let me throw my two cents in.

As Argee has stated above, there is absolutely no way you could have had any sort of Hill Hold system on your car prior to around 10 years ago. Even now, according to my information, the system is provided as standart only with top models like Mercedes S-Class, BMW 7-Series and Audi A8. Yes, one might get an impression that most automatic-equipped cars have the system, but this only because of the way the automatic gearbox operates.

When on even road (not going up- or downhill) you take your foot off the brake, the car begins rolling. This happens because the hydraulic converter (I might be using the wrong word since English is not my mother tongue) is transmitting some % of the torque to the wheels. This same effect keeps the car from rolling backwards when facing uphill.

Regarding your comment that "when ou use your left foot on the brake, there is a lag as the engine takes hold". This is done intentionally to avoid a nasty situation: if you notice an obstacle on the road and rush to stop you car, you might accidentally press both pedals at the same time. Should the engine respond to the gas pedal, the braking distance might be long enough to kill you. To death. So now, on most modern cars, whenever brake pedal is being pressed, the gas pedal cuts off.

------------------------------------

The saleperson should have known this. I am an ex-salesman myself at my country's premier TOYOTA dealership, and we all have extensive product training in order to minimize the chance of miss-informing the customer.

I doubt you can do anything about your car now. There is realistically no way one can prove the act of misrepresentation during discussion of the order, and the order documents (whichever you have) clearly state that you have never ordered a Hill Hold system.

This is what Wikepedia has to say about Hill Holder..........:P

Hill-holder

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Jump to: navigation, search

Hill-Holder is a name for the mechanism invented by Studebaker that holds the brake until the clutch is at the friction point, making it easier to start up hills from a stop in manual transmission automobiles. It was first introduced in 1936 as an option for the Studebaker President. Another name for the mechanism is a hill hold control (HHC).

As a trade name, it was only available on older Subarus, and is currently available on the Subaru Forester and the Subaru Impreza. Hill-holder works by holding the brake in position while the driver sets-up and activates the first gear to move the car forward from a complete stop, without fear of roll-back.

In layman’s terms, the hill holder function works by using two sensors, in concert with the brake system on the vehicle. The first sensor measures the forward facing incline (nose higher than tail) of the vehicle, while the second is a disengaging mechanism.

When a driver stops their vehicle on an incline where the nose of the car is sufficiently higher than the rear of the car, the system is engaged when the driver's foot is depressing the brake pedal, and then the clutch pedal is fully depressed. Once set, the driver must keep the clutch pedal fully depressed, however, they may remove his or her foot from the brake pedal. To disengage the system and move the car forward, the driver selects first gear, feathers (applies) the gas pedal, and slowly releases the clutch pedal, which, at a point in its travel, releases the braking system allowing the car to proceed.

Hill-holder works best for those who are inexperienced with manual shift techniques, or in situations with heavy traffic in steep hilly conditions (ex. San Francisco, etc.).

Hope this clears up that poin and perhaps you guys will start to back this man as he has clearly been missold this model.

Paul

[cjb]

I always apply the handbrake when stopped on a hill and have no trouble co-ordinating its release and the forward motion of the car. Since I suspect that you will not have your car replaced by the dealer, if you're going to keep it then you either need to use the handbrake, or operate the footbrake with your left foot of hill starts.

Ray

TBH, I'm lazy in my DSG, and very rarely use the handbrake. I've found that if you ease the brake off rather than step quickly off it, the clutch will catch it OK. It's not quite as easy as an older, TC auto, bit it works ok for me.

[cjb]

I don't doubt what you say, but in all three of our cars (a DSG VW Passat, manual Fabia vRS and a Tiptronic Porsche Boxster) I can depress the brake and rev the engine, in or out of gear/drive, so the throttle must be disengaged only when the car is moving with the footbrakes on, which isn't what Billhum is describing. The DSG desn't creep like a normal automatic, it definitely pauses before it pulls away, which is somewhat disconcerting when a huge truck is bearing down on you and you could easily have moved off in a manual or normal automatic.

I definitely recommend anyone considering a DSG car takes it on a long drive through Milton Keynes (loads of roundabouts) to make sure they're comfy with the hesitant pulling away.

I've had no problem. There's a pause when you let go of the brake, but not when pressing the throttle, so I've found you need to anticipate the gap and come of the bnrake a bit earlier, then as soon as you hit the throrrle, it goes.

[cjb]

Again, I have no idea what they may have done to protect the engine and/or transmission and/or driver, but none of my cars have that characteristic.

I think that a brake pedal switch disengages the clutch.

In fact, it has been claimed that the fastest off-the-line accelleration in an automatic is gained by holding the car on the footbrake while revving the engine, then lifting off the footbrake. At which point the car takes off in a hurry! But that's not to say it's good for the car.

That's correct.

DSG has a launch control built in. It's not good for the box though.

Turn off ESP/TC, engage S, lefet foot brake, right foot hold throttle down. Let revs stabilise, let go off brake.

[cjb]

Thanks for all the comments.

What is considered the best method of starting on a hill?

Learn to use the handbrake?

Move my right foot from the brake to the gas as quickly as I can? I can't use my left foot because of the engine lag.

Put it into Park?

On a steep hill use the handbrake. On a slight one, release the brakes gradually- you will feel the clutch engage as you do it. Try it somewhere quiet to get used to it.

[Departed]

PM sent

[billhum]

My replacement car was promised for the end of this month and I have had reports from the dealer twice that it is on time.

I have just had a call that the car is at the dealer and ready for pick up when the paper work is complete.

It seems to have taken everyone by surprise (!)

[TOURBOLUX]

so if the car has ESP, it has also the Hill Hold function?

[jcblincs]

no.

you have to order hill hold as an option

ESP is standard

[billhum]

I have had my replacement car for a couple of weeks now so I'll add a couple of comments on it.

The Hill Hold is good and I have no problem adjusting to it. However it works, the effect is similar to my previous automatic cars and that's great. From my point of view the battle was worth while.

My initial consumption readings are about 43 mpg, this all in local driving. That seems pretty fair to me.

After reading other comments on this site about tyre pressures, I asked that they were checked before delivery. I mention this because, for some reason, I find this car much smoother than my previous one. My wife has told me she is tired of my saying this each time we go out.

[TOURBOLUX]

on the DSG 7 though the hill hold comes as a standard...isn't?

[Tom_vRS]

Yes.