supermarket/shell/bp fuel

[Decron]

PD130 engine, can't tell the difference whatever I chuck in.

Oh it can, it alters the injection timing and a few other things depending on the fuel. It's usually so good at it most people won't notice. If people do thing think the fuel runs a little rough then it's probably closer to the tolerences for the unit but they are quite wide so they will take quite a broad spectrum of fuel as they are designed to run in countries which might not have the same standards with little or no modification.

Most people don't really get that their car might be running a little rougher because of the local environment and then blame it on the thing thats easier to understand.

[Lee]

Evo magazine ran a test a few years ago using Tesco super unleaded, BP Ultimate and (then) Shell Optimax.

It was proven that Optimax kept the engine; combustion chambers, valve seats cleaner and thus the engine was more efficient and produced more power.

V-Power diesel for me.

[sms]

each fuel has its own advantage and disadvantage. if you going to fill up twice a week then shell vpower is the best. like mentioned above it has better cleaning stuff inside too, but goes stale in under a week. Tescos super 99 althrough not with the same cleaning stuff is usually a penny or two cheaper and has been shown on a recent test to not go stale as quick as vpower.

[simonsheil]

In terms of diesel I prefer BP and Shell, however fill up where I am so use most suppliers from time to time.

That said I will not be filling up at Morrisons agian. Filled up a few weeks back on an empty tank and the difference was noticable straight away. Engine was noisier and no as keen to accelerate, back to BP and improved.

Current tank is Tescos and while not as good as it runs on shell is not bad.

In terms of different grades of fuel you should see the quality of red diesel we use at work. I reckon it would block car fuel filters within 5000 miles.

[Kandy]

Oh it can, it alters the injection timing...... Most people don't really get that their car might be running a little rougher because of the local environment and then blame it on the thing thats easier to understand.

I'm not sure what your point was? 10 tanks of the cheapest/10 tanks of the best - it makes no measurable difference to smoothness/mpg.

Obviously modern ECUs adapt according to the quality of the fuel. Ambient temperature, humidity, even air pressure etc. have a far greater effect on running/mpg than the fuel 'differences' under discussion here.

The engine will often run noticeably 'differently' after you restart it (even if you put no new fuel in) - and how noticeable that is will also depend on what point in your journey you stopped for fuel (i.e. straight off your drive on a cold morning or after a long hot run).

[Decron]

Hmmm, you have chopped that quote a bit. Your PD130 will tell the difference between fuesl X,Y and Z but it will rarely let you know that it has. The rest of the post was pretty much exactly what I said in that it will just carry on regardless

The vast majority will find no difference in what fuel they use. I sometimes do 1000 a week on whatever I can get as well as Bio and I am quite confident it really is all the same when it goes through. I even did a 1000 miles on Ultimate and 1000 miles on Tescos when I had a company Golf (And a comany fuel card) and found no difference in any aspect other than the stupid price of the Ultimate. The car went in to do 125k in my hands and is still used to this day as a pool car with 200k+ on the clock.

It's down to what people prefer but when I find that I can do 1000 miles a week on 30% veg oil and 70% Supermarket juice with no problems and great running etc and you get people saying they wont use Supermarket fuel because it's "not as smooth" I have to laugh. These will probably be the same people who will buy a Fuel save magnet to put round their fuel line....

The other thing is was the change in people's attitudes when diesel was up round the £1.30+ mark and lots of people suddenly trying to save as few pence a litre buy "Risking" Supermarket fuel. Suddenly the risk was acceptable, it would appear that now it's less so which is crazy. If it was aceptable then, why has it changed? It's still the same fuel!!

Edited 22 December, 2008 by Decron

[simonsheil]

Are all fuels the same. No

Case point is shell fuel. I can brim a tank of shell fuel straight up as it does not froth (my experience with all other fuel). Therefore there are clearly additional/diferent additives in the fuel. In my view the car is most repsonsive with Shell fuel although the Bhp/Tourqe may be the same. I will however, gererally fill up with what ever is closest when I need fuel.

[Decron]

Are all fuels the same. No

Case point is shell fuel. I can brim a tank of shell fuel straight up as it does not froth (my experience with all other fuel). Therefore there are clearly additional/diferent additives in the fuel. In my view the car is most repsonsive with Shell fuel although the Bhp/Tourqe may be the same. I will however, gererally fill up with what ever is closest when I need fuel.

So, what your saying is... you can tell if there are additives in the fuel based on how frothy it is....

[Darren H]

I use Asda or Tesco diesel all the time in my re-mapped vRS. Can't tell the difference when I used BP Ultimate. When I got the car re-mapped I asked Star Performance if it was better to run on the higher octane fuels & they said it would run perfectly well on any diesel.

[loco]

I do 400 miles a week I prefer to use shell purely because it's close and cheap (for me) but will have no issues running a tank or two of morrisons if caught short, I'm with the 'it makes no real world differance' except perhaps to your pocket, It will always 'feel' better due to the slightly higher lvl of octane in the super fuels quieting down the 'knock' of the fuel it won't reallistically improve acceleration.. it may.. but the increase would be so insignificant you'd never know.

I've tried this out on both my bikes and cars (and I've had a few) and can find no decernable differance other than the 'feel' , but is that worth the extra 10-15p per litre??? you decide whats best.. but me ? I'll stick to standard ta

[simonsheil]

So, what your saying is... you can tell if there are additives in the fuel based on how frothy it is....

Well yes clearly there is is a different additive make up as one froths while the other does not. If they were both the same they would froth equally.

[skomaz]

Well up until six months ago my best mate worked for an oil refinery on the east coast for nogh on twenty years - he is a chemical engineer and is also a production engineer - ie he ran the refinery process at his refinery. He now acts as a refinery trouble shooter for the company that employs him. As a result I'd trust him on fuel rather than anything posted on here (with all due respect of course).

His comment - "there is sod all difference in the fuels sold by the majors and the supermarkets" (he is a yorkshireman!). All have to meet the exact same (very tight) tolerances and, whilst some may have slightly different additives depending upon the supplier/supplying refinery, they are all basically the same and do the same thing. Hence there should be no difference to the way the car performs - if there is it's a placebo effect.

[loco]

Well up until six months ago my best mate worked for an oil refinery on the east coast for nogh on twenty years - he is a chemical engineer and is also a production engineer - ie he ran the refinery process at his refinery. He now acts as a refinery trouble shooter for the company that employs him. As a result I'd trust him on fuel rather than anything posted on here (with all due respect of course).

His comment - "there is sod all difference in the fuels sold by the majors and the supermarkets" (he is a yorkshireman!). All have to meet the exact same (very tight) tolerances and, whilst some may have slightly different additives depending upon the supplier/supplying refinery, they are all basically the same and do the same thing. Hence there should be no difference to the way the car performs - if there is it's a placebo effect.

What you mean the car ISN'T Accelerating 2.5 times the speed of light when I put the expensive fuel in

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

Well up until six months ago my best mate worked for an oil refinery on the east coast for nogh on twenty years - he is a chemical engineer and is also a production engineer - ie he ran the refinery process at his refinery. He now acts as a refinery trouble shooter for the company that employs him. As a result I'd trust him on fuel rather than anything posted on here (with all due respect of course).

His comment - "there is sod all difference in the fuels sold by the majors and the supermarkets" (he is a yorkshireman!). All have to meet the exact same (very tight) tolerances and, whilst some may have slightly different additives depending upon the supplier/supplying refinery, they are all basically the same and do the same thing. Hence there should be no difference to the way the car performs - if there is it's a placebo effect.

pretty conclusive i think then lol, thats sold it to me, i`ll carry on with me cheap jacks tesco fuel

[Decron]

Well yes clearly there is is a different additive make up as one froths while the other does not. If they were both the same they would froth equally.

Well thats good enough for me. What do we need all this science stuff for when we can just look for the froth

You could do me a favour. Can you tell me which one has the sugar in it?

[daveyonthemove]

Well thats good enough for me. What do we need all this science stuff for when we can just look for the froth

You could do me a favour. Can you tell me which one has the sugar in it?

I don't care what anyone on here trys to tell me about how my car should run on different fuels, i can tell you all for a fact that it DOES run smoother on Shell extra. It DOES return more MPG on Shell extra. It IS more responsive on shell extra.

I've tried several tanks of shell Vpower, and my car ran worse on that than it does on any supermarket fuel.

The additives are there for a reason and do work well, and for the record i work with fuel and test it for a living. Frothy fuel has sweet F.A to with additives (as Decron politely points out) its probably more to do with the rate its being pumped in at through different pumps.

[simonsheil]

Well its actually down to the anti foaming agent they add to the fuel. Point I was making is that over the large range of garages I fill up (some with fast pumps, some with very slow pumps - Tesco Barrow) in Shell is consistently non foamy while the others are. Hence clearly there is a different additive make up to the fuels and they are not all the same.

[daveyonthemove]

The anti foaming agent is not an additive to make the car run any better though, its silicone based (we all remember the 'supermarket silicone disaster' not long ago?) and Shell fuel does froth up IMO.

You can make water froth if you put it under high enough pressure, but as far as i can tell there are no additives in water.

The additives in question are for cleaning the system and improving octane/cetane levels in the fuel for a better burn and more efficeincy, not to prevent frothing.