My thoughts on the Fabia RS standard suspension

[des_pd_ tdi]

Daihatsu YRV?

Rob.

Exactly

[faboka vrs]

I agree.. for the car that it is.. its well balanced.. ive driven the Ibiza TDI sport and the handling isnt better.. but ride quality and comfort is much much worse.

i agree.

[pbirkett]

I have absolutely no intention of lowering or changing the suspension of the car and I'll go as far to say I'm even happy with the Michelin tyres, it's taken a few thousand miles but I think they are quite good.

Thats another thing. Everyone said the Michelins were terrible. Well, I cant say that I've noticed, so I guess they arent that bad. And I've experienced "terrible" tyres which nearly resulted in me having a crash. They are nowhere near that bad and the fact they've still got tread on after i've absolutely caned them after 10,000 miles is an achievement in itself.

The problem is one person says the handling is not up to scratch the tyres are rubbish etc...... and it puts doubt in your mind. This post has quashed everyone

[Chavyboy]

I think alot of the issue people have is down to lack of driving experience IMHO. I am not a bad driver by any means but I could learn alot if a sat down with a good trackday instructor and learnt how to hand the car properly.

[mcbunny]

i shall give you a few tips bud dont you worry

[Chavyboy]

i shall give you a few tips bud dont you worry

I've seen the way you dress.... No thanks :P

[mcbunny]

pfffft !!!!! i dress well !!! (for a clown)

[Chavyboy]

[flatfourburble]

CTR is not that great, when I was Honda we had alot in with accident damaged by those pesky hedges and trees that jump out at you!! Trouble is they have too much grip that when you do reach the point of no return you are scr***d!

Tyres, they are not that bad to be honest ok they are not the best in the wet but they are a good all-rounder. Done near 9k on them plus laps at Trax and the odd ragging drive and they are not too badly worn!

As for the rest. Polo GTi who know I'm guess it will alike but not just as good as all VW's are pants :P. Peugeot 206 GTiHDi do I really have to go there Peugeot are terrible and your'll spend more time in the garage than on the road.

For you money there is not a better car on the market, maybe I'm bias?

[carefree]

might as well chip in......had to drive home for the first time along twisty country roads last week (another smack-up on the A414) and was hugely impressed with the way it handled. In fact, I enjoyed it soooo much more than the straight route I usually take to/from work, and now alternate between the twisty and the straight route. The power out of corners is so much fun and quite honestly ****es over my prvious V5 Golf in terms of handling and power. :microwav:

[doer1]

OK' date=' my view on this is probably quite unpopular, but nevertheless I want to share my opinion on the suspension and handling of the standard vRS.

I was planning to get Eibach springs and dampers for the car, but I am seriously reconsidering this option. It is my opinion that, although the handling and low speed grip are not the best in its class (especially when compared to a petrol car), I find that its high speed grip and handling is in fact, very good.

For sure, the car take a different approach to twisty roads, but once you have learned the way (slower in, faster out) you can cover such roads at almost astonishing speed

At first, I felt that the standard suspension was a bit soft and underdamped. Strange though this sounds, the suspension seems better now the car has 10.5k miles on the clock, the damping seems a bit better for some reason, with less bounce. I thought I might be imagining this, but I swear I'm not, on some incredibly bouncy and rough roads near where I live, the car is a bit more composed than it was when I first got it.

Also, I have done a lot of reading on suspension, and have come to the conclusion that a firmer suspension setup is probably not going to benefit me in the way I want. With my understanding, the much firmer setup will make the car "handle" better, but will also make it more unsettled on the rough roads it tends to go on, and make it skittish, and will unsettle its planted feel at higher speeds. I have found that the car is very stable even at speeds far in excess of those that would lose you your license. The soft suspension means the car is very forgiving and I feel low speed excepted, the car grips really well.

I also think that the seating position is very important. I feel that if I sit too low and/or too far back in the car, I dont feel like I am in such control of the car. I have found a perfect seating position that makes the most of the visibility and gives the car a quite excellent feel to the drive.

Now, I think that better tyres may well help with the low speed grip (not that I have that many problems even with that, truth be told), and perhaps a strut brace might make a little difference without changing anything too radically? I am trying to understand what people mean by "tightening" the front end?

Anyway, some people have claimed that the suspension setup is woeful, but I disagree completely, you can drive this car very quickly round twisty roads if you drive it right. That means not treating it as though its a small engined, lightweight car, but compensating for its heavier engine, and once you do that, I feel theres not that many similarly powered cars that will get away from you on one of our average, rough, bumpy B-roads. Also, the benefit with the softer suspension is comfort on motorways, something I like and I would not want to dismiss.

I have therefore come to the conclusion that for my needs, the car is a fun, and entertaining car on stock suspension and that no mods are really needed for use on normal british roads. I can perhaps understand modding the car to use on a track, but on roads, well its down to the preferences of the person who owns it, but I just wanted to say that I dont feel the suspension (and brakes, but thats another matter) are as bad as made out. I feel that the extent of my modding could be enough with only a strut brace, perhaps better brake pads and a mild remap (say 170-180 bhp).

Anyway, does anyone agree with me or not? [/quote']

My feelings down to a "T" I have had an Astra GTE which I had lowered with a Ebach kit many years ago... too harsh and whilst it would have been good on a smooth track our gov doesn't spend 1/2 of the cash us road goes give them so our roads mean the car skips across the surface giving the driver the 10p 5p 9inch pizza sindrome...

I'm also looking at a strut brace.. brakes and a re-map... only thing is a strut and modified brakes would probably let the dealer know about the re-map and lead to warrenty issues so not sure what I'm going to do yet due to the high miles I need protection if you know what I mean still common sence may go out of the window after the first service in 2000 miles... only had the car 3 month!!! :eek:

[Furball]

This is a great thread. I read a few articles on how the suspension/handling of the vRS was not up to par before I bought mine and kind of was of that mindset before I even drove one. It does feel a bit lofty and doesn't inspire confidence, but thats when I compared it to my RB5. The more I drive it and get used to it, the more I like and respect the car. When I next have a few quid I intend to spend my money on learning how to drive the vRS better and perhaps a strutbrace or two!

Stephen

[aixlad]

Lots of interesting discussions here about suspension, nice to see various peoples views. I agree that you need dampers AND springs, lowering springs are just cosmetic, and hence just half of the story. I have ride and height ajustable KONIs on my car, and although the ride is quite firm I can change the damping characteristics to more or less what I want, though I do prefer firm damping. Just a couple of considerations that you should be aware of -

1. Take a corner too fast which has a "rippled" tarmac surface, and you c**p yourself as you just bounce over ripples into either oncoming traffic or a farmers field.

2. Grip and traction appear to be greatly reduced on wet surfaces, I don't know why.

3. Run over a carelessly discarded cigarette paper, and it feels like you just ran over a house brick.

Said that, I'm looking at having the same setup when my vRS eventually arrives, as I like the improvement in braking and the sharpness of steering. When I test drove the vRS (unaccompanied ) I was a little disappointed with the body roll.

[Schtum]

1. Take a corner too fast which has a "rippled" tarmac surface' date=' and you c**p yourself as you just bounce over ripples into either oncoming traffic or a farmers field.

2. Grip and traction appear to be greatly reduced on wet surfaces, I don't know why.

3. Run over a carelessly discarded cigarette paper, and it feels like you just ran over a house brick.

[/quote']

I've got Bilstein PSS9 coilovers....although that's a bit of a misnomer on a Golf...on my car. I've recently been finding #1 is true to some extent but by then I'm travelling at speeds way in excess of those at which the standard suspension would have been tying itself in knots and the undertray would have been grinding on the road surface.

If #2 is the case then it sounds as if the car really is much to stiff. In the wet you want it a bit softer so that you get some weight transfer onto the outside wheel to help adhesion. Conversely if it's lower and stiffer you should get less weight transfer off the front wheels and better straight line traction.

#3.....ahh yes, #3. I'm thinking about softening mine off for the winter and going back to 15" wheels with rain or winter tyres. Mine is superb at the front end. With upper and lower strut braces it turns in with real bite and twisty B roads are driven with wrist movements. But......the rear is really too hard and it "chops" badly on bumpy B roads. So much so that 20K miles after fitting my nice solid VW body shell now has a few creaks and groans where it didn't before. Again, I could soften the damping but that would increase the understeer and it does feel as if Bilstein may have got the rear spring rates wrong. Perhaps they didn't expect too many TDI drivers to fit the PSS9 kit.

How does this compare with SWMBO's Fabia vRS.....? To echo previous comments, when we got it, I didn't like it at all. It felt decidedly tail happy. 10K miles later it has definitely settled down but it doesn't feel as if it'd happily take much more power. My Golf's making just under 150 bhp and 253 lbs-ft of torque. When I fitted the Bilsteins, it immediately felt as if it'd be happy with another 50 bhp. The Fabia doesn't feel planted enough on the road to handle another 40 to 50 bhp. It may be ok if you drive on smooth straight roads but if you habitually drive hard on bumpy Scottish B roads then it wouldn't do. As for the brakes, they may be relatively fade free and the pedal travel is shorter and more consistent than the Golf, but they lack progression. Again, in conjunction with more power and the opportunity to use it, I'd want bigger brakes. The conclusion....? It's SWMBO's car so I'll be leaving it alone........for the moment.

[Glider]

Like life everything is a compromise. Car makers spend millions developing a car to end up with the best compromise for normal dirving conditions. Unless its a Marcos or something like that I wouldn't think they take track days into consideration. After all anyone who wants to go fast round a track will buy an Atom or Radical.

[Chavyboy]

How does this compare with SWMBO's Fabia vRS.....? To echo previous comments, when we got it, I didn't like it at all. It felt decidedly tail happy. 10K miles later it has definitely settled down but it doesn't feel as if it'd happily take much more power. My Golf's making just under 150 bhp and 253 lbs-ft of torque. When I fitted the Bilsteins, it immediately felt as if it'd be happy with another 50 bhp. The Fabia doesn't feel planted enough on the road to handle another 40 to 50 bhp. It may be ok if you drive on smooth straight roads but if you habitually drive hard on bumpy Scottish B roads then it wouldn't do. As for the brakes, they may be relatively fade free and the pedal travel is shorter and more consistent than the Golf, but they lack progression. Again, in conjunction with more power and the opportunity to use it, I'd want bigger brakes. The conclusion....? It's SWMBO's car so I'll be leaving it alone........for the moment.

You can't compare these cars in terms of handling as one is the golf and the other is based on the polo platform, now a fair comparison is the Octavia and the Golf :thumbdwn:

[pbirkett]

Also, I would disagree about it being "not planted enough" to handle more power, I think it could handle more power. Its all about restraint, and any front wheel drive car with that much power will potentially be a handful IMHO.

To my mind, if the car is still fairly planted even at speeds well over 100 then it will still handle more power. I would not expect top speed to increase greatly when chipped, just the speed it gets there.

[flatfourburble]

The Fabia doesn't feel planted enough on the road to handle another 40 to 50 bhp. It may be ok if you drive on smooth straight roads but if you habitually drive hard on bumpy Scottish B roads then it wouldn't do.QUOTE]

I think it could handle more, it's all about the way you drive it not how it drives. You could have the best handlering car in the world, but if you drive both beyond your means and like a spanner then it will never be rewarding.

You have to work with the car, it's like making love with a beautiful woman, if you take you time a learn what she likes your be rewarded, go at it a hammer to a nail, then sure your get the quick thrill but it will end up in tears!

Anyway back to work for me roll on the weekend!

[Schtum]

I think it could handle more' date=' it's all about the way you drive it not how it drives. You could have the best handlering car in the world, but if you drive both beyond your means and like a spanner then it will never be rewarding.

You have to work with the car, it's like making love with a beautiful woman, if you take you time a learn what she likes your be rewarded, go at it a hammer to a nail, then sure your get the quick thrill but it will end up in tears!

[/quote']

I've been driving fast on road and track and on two wheels and four since before you were born sonny. Repeat after me....."I must not patronise and disrespect my elders and betters..." Got it...?

[Schtum]

You can't compare these cars in terms of handling as one is the golf and the other is based on the polo platform, now a fair comparison is the Octavia and the Golf :thumbdwn:

I just did. Restrictions exist only in your mind, Grasshopper...... Besides which, it was really about the costs and benefits of upgraded suspension. Do keep up.

[Dan_P]

You have to work with the car, it's like making love with a beautiful woman, if you take you time a learn what she likes your be rewarded, go at it a hammer to a nail, then sure your get the quick thrill but it will end up in tears!

Glad you could make it Swiss

[pbirkett]

I just did. Restrictions exist only in your mind, Grasshopper...... Besides which, it was really about the costs and benefits of upgraded suspension. Do keep up.

Sure, there are benefits to upgrading the suspension, but I think there is also drawbacks, do you not agree?

[Schtum]

Sure, there are benefits to upgrading the suspension, but I think there is also drawbacks, do you not agree?

I do. Personally, I'd like Citroen ride quality coupled with the handling of a Lotus Elise.

Having said that, my son recently imported a Toyota Celica GTFour ST205. It arrived from Japan on lowered suspension. It manages to put its 300 bhp down on the road very effectively, yet the ride quality is at least as good, if not better than SWMBO's Fabia vRS and leagues ahead of my Golf.

No doubt there'll be someone along in a moment to complain about me comparing apples and oranges. Or at least there would be if they understood the conceptual framework...... However, the point is that if it can be done then perhaps we should expect manufacturers to be working towards a wider performance envelope within which there is an acceptable ride / handling / roadholding compromise. Don't you think......?

[S29FEB]

I've been driving fast on road and track and on two wheels and four since before you were born sonny. Repeat after me....."I must not patronise and disrespect my elders and betters..." Got it...?

mmmmmmmmmmm

Schtum (Quiet?)

[Schtum]

mmmmmmmmmmm

Schtum (Quiet?)

Don't tell me that we have someone who appreciates irony....? Nice wee West Highland terrier you've got there. I used to have a real one many years ago. Bad tempered bloody thing is was as well........