Alright ladies ... Don't take this meaningless poll too seriously now!

Thing is, it's not meaningless. Well it might be to you, but I suppose that might have been the point of posting it. It allows a certain degree of 'separation' to be noted amongst the gathered Briskoda brethren

Take care out there

Steve

:iagree: - particularly interesting is the number who don't seem to realise that there isn't an easy association between available lateral grip and the vanishing point on a bend.

My initial answer to the question is the same as most of the replies already made here.

IT DEPENDS!

Thing is, it's not meaningless. Steve

The discussion is not, but the poll itself is I feel.

I'm still a bit unclear on this - is your thinking that speed limits should be dropped for every bend where the approaching speed limit is too high so that you can always drive at the speed limit around a bend, or am I completely off?

Chris

Yes mate, that was something along the lines of what I was thinking. As for the guy who pointed out that road conditions could vary due to weather, how do they deal with this elsewhere? Variable speed limit depending on conditions. Simple.

Ok, since you still seem so sure of yourself, what would you do with setting a limit for one bend I encounter daily on a single-track road where 50mph is safe Westbound, but you can't safely go above 40 Eastbound, due to the shape and positioning of a hillock on the inside of the bend, and the exact geometry of the road?

You could change the road geometry, reroute the road or remove a section of the hillock mate if the route was important.

Otherwise the speed limit is 40 or less either way

Yes mate, that was something along the lines of what I was thinking. As for the guy who pointed out that road conditions could vary due to weather, how do they deal with this elsewhere? Variable speed limit depending on conditions. Simple.

What a waste of time that would be.

If it's a particularly sharp bend then by all means stick a warning sign up , but it's ludicrous to suggest that each and every road should have a change of speed limit every time there's a bend or other potential hazard.

What a waste of time that would be.

If it's a particularly sharp bend then by all means stick a warning sign up , but it's ludicrous to suggest that each and every road should have a change of speed limit every time there's a bend or other potential hazard.

Ludicrous? Impractical maybe

How about taking a particular section of the road, say for arguments sake a 2 mile stretch, and setting the speed limit based on the characteristics of this stretch? This obviously only applies to poor roads, secondary roads or C-roads I think UK calls them?

The discussion is not, but the poll itself is I feel.

I was unsure whether to put a poll or not, but decided that it would be a good way to show the spread of views across the people who'd responded. I was expecting spikes at 30mph and 60mph and nothing inbetween, so it was interesting (from my point of view anyway ) to see a more uniform spread, which I think in turn led to discussion about how people had reached those figures....

It was also interesting (again maybe just from my perspective ) that some people had related a very vaguely described bend in the description to a bend they know well, whether consciously or subconsciously, that can be driven safely at 60mph and then come up with a figure based around that. I wonder if this would be classed as using "local" knowledge?

Chris

You could change the road geometry, reroute the road or remove a section of the hillock mate if the route was important.

Otherwise the speed limit is 40 or less either way

Or you could just drop the pretence that you can set safe variable speeds any better than you can a reasonable universal limit and allow people to use their judgement.

Is it just me, or am I smelling a troll? Maybe I'm being unfair...

How about taking a particular section of the road, say for arguments sake a 2 mile stretch, and setting the speed limit based on the characteristics of this stretch? This obviously only applies to poor roads, secondary roads or C-roads I think UK calls them?

I think this sort of variable speed idea works well on motorways, etc, where the goal is to get all the traffic driving at an optimum speed to keep flowing, but on more minor roads, I think the problem comes that a safe speed for an HGV to negotiate a corner is very different to a safe speed that a Ferarri can negotiate a corner, simply because of the different levels of vision afforded and the different characteristics of the vehicles and the distance (and space) needed to stop in....

I think I'd rather promote education to help drivers pick the correct speed for the conditions, rather than give them an arbitrary speed limit to drive at, but I know my view is not shared with the majority of people in positions of power working in Road Safety.

Chris

Is it just me, or am I smelling a troll? Maybe I'm being unfair...

Honestly! I'm just trying to stimulate a bit of discussion :P:rofl:

Chris

Oh yes, very good!

I think this sort of variable speed idea works well on motorways, etc, where the goal is to get all the traffic driving at an optimum speed to keep flowing, but on more minor roads, I think the problem comes that a safe speed for an HGV to negotiate a corner is very different to a safe speed that a Ferarri can negotiate a corner, simply because of the different levels of vision afforded and the different characteristics of the vehicles and the distance (and space) needed to stop in....

I think I'd rather promote education to help drivers pick the correct speed for the conditions, rather than give them an arbitrary speed limit to drive at, but I know my view is not shared with the majority of people in positions of power working in Road Safety.

Chris

Fair points mate, however I would suggest that the HGV should not be on the road with the sharp bends in the first place.

The Ferrari belongs on a track or a country which has a suitable infrastructure. If it is on an unsuitable road out of necessity, it should obey the limits set on other "lesser" vehicles....

Or you could just drop the pretence that you can set safe variable speeds any better than you can a reasonable universal limit and allow people to use their judgement.

Like in the developing world? We have rules because the judgement of the majority cannot be trusted perhaps?

Like in the developing world? We have rules because the judgement of the majority cannot be trusted perhaps?

If your argument held water, there would be regular accidents at that bend. There aren't, which suggests that most people can respond intelligently to a poor signtline.

If your argument held water, there would be regular accidents at that bend. There aren't, which suggests that most people can respond intelligently to a poor signtline.

What bend are you referring to? What data are you quoting on the accident rate at said bend?

This is an abstract issue IMHO with no right or wrong answer.

Fair points mate, however I would suggest that the HGV should not be on the road with the sharp bends in the first place.

The Ferrari belongs on a track or a country which has a suitable infrastructure. If it is on an unsuitable road out of necessity, it should obey the limits set on other "lesser" vehicles....

That is a good point, and it would be good to level the playing field. What "lesser" vehicle do you reckon should be the benchmark for setting speed limits? I'll nominate my lowly Panda

Chris

That is a good point, and it would be good to level the playing field. What "lesser" vehicle do you reckon should be the benchmark for setting speed limits? I'll nominate my lowly Panda

Chris

I don't know man, the Panda is a little too nimble on the back roads to be a benchmark maybe!! I think the Panda is a fantastic little car. Good thread mate!

this is in a car and not a lorry, bus, van or bike?

this is in a car and not a lorry, bus, van or bike?

Of course - lorries, buses, vans and bikes should be banned

Chris

Approaching the bend I would be looking for warning signs, painted lines on the road, shell grip on the road, the black and white arrow signs on the corner, vehicles going into the bend, and if possible hedgerows, lamposts to try and establish how sharp the bend was, the road conditions including the tarmac, weather and any signs of diesel spillage, cyclists, pedestrians, limit point, can I see through the bend?

then process this information, mirror checks, position to the nearside if left hand bend to better my view, offside if right hand bend NOT crossing the lines, reducing spped by braking in a straight line then selecting a nice flexible gear before the bend and using the accelerator to maintain a safe speed round the corner being able to stop in distance I can see to be clear, using accelerator sense to ensure the cars engine is slightly pulling the car round the corner and keep the car stable, and as the limit point opens up accelerating when it is safe to do so - scanning the road ahead and behind. :eek:

If your are really concentrating on your driving especially on roads you don't know and taking in all the hazards you should find you get tired fairly quickly. Lots of people nowadays use the sub-conscience to drive, whilst using mobiles, shaving, putting make up on and thinking about what they are having for tea just looking at the car immediately infront of them, and when they get to their destination they probably wouldnt remember much about the drive.

Approaching the bend I would be looking for warning signs, painted lines on the road, shell grip on the road, the black and white arrow signs on the corner, vehicles going into the bend, and if possible hedgerows, lamposts to try and establish how sharp the bend was, the road conditions including the tarmac, weather and any signs of diesel spillage, cyclists, pedestrians, limit point, can I see through the bend?

then process this information, mirror checks, position to the nearside if left hand bend to better my view, offside if right hand bend NOT crossing the lines, reducing spped by braking in a straight line then selecting a nice flexible gear before the bend and using the accelerator to maintain a safe speed round the corner being able to stop in distance I can see to be clear, using accelerator sense to ensure the cars engine is slightly pulling the car round the corner and keep the car stable, and as the limit point opens up accelerating when it is safe to do so - scanning the road ahead and behind. :eek:

If your are really concentrating on your driving especially on roads you don't know and taking in all the hazards you should find you get tired fairly quickly. Lots of people nowadays use the sub-conscience to drive, whilst using mobiles, shaving, putting make up on and thinking about what they are having for tea just looking at the car immediately infront of them, and when they get to their destination they probably wouldnt remember much about the drive.

Nice detailed reply there

One of the ex-police instructors I know runs an excellent workshop on the "anatomy of a corner" and gets the audience to name bits of information that may be available to you on the approach to a corner. I think he said his current total is in the 50's but some of them are a little far fetched! I like your list of things to check - one thing I also like to take note of on the approach are any skid marks on the road or holes in the hedgerows which may give an idea of how many people have got it wrong and suggest a tightening bend or hidden hazards

If I had the view, I'd also not be too worried about crossing the centre line, provided it was safe, legal and there was a benefit

It's also a good point about applying power during the corner and, if we were being law abiding, this would mean 60mph was probably not an ideal entry speed as we'd have no headroom and may end up going round on a trailing throttle which is not great for passenger comfort or stability!

Chris

At the end of day we cant change physics no matter how good a driver you are.

If you ask your car and its tyres to steer, slow down and change gear all the same time sooner or later you will get into trouble so it all has to be done separately using the system of car control.

Just coming to the end of a 3 week driving course and it completely changes the way you approach driving. A systematic apporach to observing and dealing with hazards leaving nothing to chance.

Generally if theres alot of warning signs and paint on the roads its there for a reason. Treat it with respect, and if theres shell grip on the road, the beige surface, its there as there have been problems in the past as it is expensive to put down.