I still consider myself a newbie even after 9 months of VRS ownership and membership of Briskoda but I feel sorry for other newbies. We tell them to 'go search' when a modding question gets asked and talk of kittens dying etc. when a question gets repeated. However, I have found the whole thing utterly confusing: ......

I understand where you are coming from on this one as the mere fact this is a 'forum' suggests there are a LOT of opinions about tuning floating around about what is 'best' for the TFSI, not all of it based on 'fact' but on 'experience' therefore you are tasked with taking the relevant points from those you trust most and following advice given from experienced tuners.

For what it's worth I'll give you my 'opinion' on the statements you've made ....................

"You need a panel filter to get the best' vs 'Panel filters make no difference - just change the paper one regularly" ... a performance panel filter does assist the flow of air and you'll see around a 5bhp gain.

"A cold air intake makes a noticeable difference on Stage 1' vs 'no it doesn't" ... as above but with a 10-15bhp gain over standard (based on EVOMS)

"You need a cat-back exhaust and EVOMS for Stage 2 although the cat-back makes little or no difference to performance" ... a tricky one as I've not seen any 'pure' before and after performance graphs for the exhaust but I would suggest if you intend going to the expense of Stage II then this upgrade is 'desirable' rather than 'essential'. EVOMS or a quality air intake is essential for Stage II.

"A HPFP mod is useful only for fuel cuts and Stage 2+' vs 'HPFP mod is useful whatever stage" ...HPFP on a modified TFSI beit Stage I or II will give notable benefits.

"One thing is for sure, a Stage 1 on its own is a no-brainer from any reputable mapper" ... agreed

HTH

280lb/ft is easily achievable on a stage 1 if that's all your after

For example I know somebody that's just had the P-Torque remap done in the recent groupbuy and it made 243bhp 283lb/ft

Only mod was a piperX panel filter

They only paid £245 all in with before and after dyno runs

He's well happy :D:D

Cheers

Damian

...And so he should be. That's exactly what I am after!

And many thanks for the post above - I take your point

If you want torque, you need boost. More boost = more fuel required. More boost also = more "stress".

My boost on the above dyno run peaked at 1340mbar for a very short time.

...therefore you are tasked with taking the relevant points from those you trust most and following advice given from experienced tuners.

Very true. I think I have built up a good idea of who they are

If you want torque, you need boost. More boost = more fuel required. More boost also = more "stress".

Agree! I think 280 ftlb is about as far as I would want to go (currently just under 240 mid range). The Stage 2+ bhp of 280+ and torque well in excess of 300 makes sense but just not in my car for what I use it for day to day.

TBH when I see folks going over 280 bhp on a FWD KO3 car, I just don't get it. Just my opinion but I think that was Mr Fish's feeling too iirc

Mine is a handful to be honest, and for winter time I'll be dropping things back a little as it can be difficult to drive briskly even now, especially from a standing start.

I can't imagine, without major suspension/handling mods, why anyone would want any more power!

The HPFP won't do anything in terms of power etc usually unless the map is written to ask for the higher fuelling.

I have seen it work on one stage 1 car that got 266Bhp but it had all the mods on it that are on my engine not just the pump.

Carl:thumbup:

Sorry Carl but thats just plain wrong. The hpfp can make a massive difference even on stage 1 software. Ask Stu

Sorry Carl but thats just plain wrong. The hpfp can make a massive difference even on stage 1 software. Ask Stu

Yes but he had Evoms and a FMIC upgraded, cat back. It doesn't make a difference with just a mapped car, i saw it with my own eyes. Before and after same results.

I understand where you are coming from on this one as the mere fact this is a 'forum' suggests there are a LOT of opinions about tuning floating around about what is 'best' for the TFSI, not all of it based on 'fact' but on 'experience' therefore you are tasked with taking the relevant points from those you trust most and following advice given from experienced tuners.

For what it's worth I'll give you my 'opinion' on the statements you've made ....................

"You need a panel filter to get the best' vs 'Panel filters make no difference - just change the paper one regularly" ... a performance panel filter does assist the flow of air and you'll see around a 5bhp gain.

"A cold air intake makes a noticeable difference on Stage 1' vs 'no it doesn't" ... as above but with a 10-15bhp gain over standard (based on EVOMS)

"You need a cat-back exhaust and EVOMS for Stage 2 although the cat-back makes little or no difference to performance" ... a tricky one as I've not seen any 'pure' before and after performance graphs for the exhaust but I would suggest if you intend going to the expense of Stage II then this upgrade is 'desirable' rather than 'essential'. EVOMS or a quality air intake is essential for Stage II.

"A HPFP mod is useful only for fuel cuts and Stage 2+' vs 'HPFP mod is useful whatever stage" ...HPFP on a modified TFSI beit Stage I or II will give notable benefits.

"One thing is for sure, a Stage 1 on its own is a no-brainer from any reputable mapper" ... agreed

HTH

A simple but accurate post imo.

Only thing I'd disagree on would be the panel filter - from experience it isnt even worth the £38 it cost me. I'd sooner have gone straight to the Evoms and put the money towards that for the real world gains it got me. The panel filter tested before (ie standard element) to after gained me 1bhp and 1lb/ft and this sort of gain can be seen on succesive runs on the same dyno having not even having changed any mods on the car!

My overall opinion is that anyone who isnt running stage 1 software is simply not getting the best from the car (for a pretty minimal financial outlay). For me though, its when that fuel pump goes in and the map is changed to take advantage of it that the torque really starts flying up.

People seem to be missing the importance of a good intercooler however (and no, im not mentioning it as mine is for sale!) - it makes everything runs that bit more safely and means the car can be driven at 100% whether its 3 degrees or 30 degrees out! Having the car set up to be safe/reliable has always been more important to me than chasing those last few peak performance figures.

@ FocuZetec did you find a difference with the Evoms? I went back to the engine cover temporary and noticed a bit less torque and response, even though i found the car adapt better to it afterwards.

Yes but he had Evoms and a FMIC upgraded, cat back. It doesn't make a difference with just a mapped car, i saw it with my own eyes. Before and after same results.

It can't possibly make a difference just by fitting it. All the pump does is increase the fuel rail pressure which makes more fuel available for delivery. If you increase the boost, you request more fuel to match and you would need the bigger pump otherwise you'll experience fuel cut, particularly at low revs.

It cannot make a difference without other changes.

Sorry Carl but thats just plain wrong. The hpfp can make a massive difference even on stage 1 software. Ask Stu

Yes your right Tom it can. However as Mickey has already said it had all the mods on that i now have on mine so anyone of those could have helped the overall process.

My "Personal" experience is that it doesn't do anything unless your getting fuel cuts or got a map that asks for it. I had the pump at Stage 2 and i got iirc 2Bhp extra. Wether that was due to the settings i was running i dont know but it didnt make very much difference. It did cure the fuel cut though

Otherwise on the same token S3/ED30 injectors would help when they won't. That isn't my "opinion" that was what i was told by Keith at JKM

Carl:thumbup:

Edited 5 October, 200916 yr by Mater

Yes but he had Evoms and a FMIC upgraded, cat back. It doesn't make a difference with just a mapped car, i saw it with my own eyes. Before and after same results.

Wrong again. It was stage 1 + HPFP only.

Erm Tom no it wasn't as i now have all the parts that were on that car on mine :P

Here is a link to the Same Car with Just Stage 1, Cat Back & Autotech HPFP. Second from Bottom row Car in the middle and it only made 245bhp :P

Click me

When that car got 266bhp it had the following

Miltek TBE (not CBE)

Neuspeed Turbo Outlet

EVOMS

DV Relocated

S3 Intercooler

Autotech Pump

All of which (less the DP, CAT & EVOMS i bought them new) are now on my car :P

So im afraid it's you who is wrong again Tom :P:P:P:P

Carl:thumbup:

Edited 5 October, 200916 yr by Mater

That's quite a bit of kit and money for the extra 20 bhp but I guess it was worth it.

Interesting to see the Mk2 above it on the JKM site i.e. Chipped UK Stg2 + AutoTech Fuel Pump only giving 236.8 bhp. Torque is a tad peaky at 270 lbft at 3000 rpm and generall levels out about 250 mid-way.

..then, say, compare this one from the Feb 2009:

A bluefin Stage 2 with CAI, stock exhaust and no hpfp allegedly. As a reminder, I am on 231.3 bhp and a smooth torque curve maxing at about 240 lbft with a Pendle Stage 1 and absolutely nought else

That graph is from Feb 2008 not 2009 and the owner subsequently binned that map in favour of REVO despite them having 2 or 3 goes at tweaking it.

I think the owner of the car you refer to from Feb 2009 has since made further complementary modifications and is much happier.

Meh. I doubt a cat back gives any gains at all tbh, so I'm right :P

But meh all the same. I still stand by the fact that a HPFP + Stage 1 map gives more gains than just a Stage 1 map on its own. Whether or not its £700 worth of more gains is debatable :P

That graph is from Feb 2008 not 2009 and the owner subsequently binned that map in favour of REVO despite them having 2 or 3 goes at tweaking it.

I think you have brought me to the conclusion that I was going to make based on all the evidence from published RRs along with the thoughts and opinions of some of the forum members that I personally trust imho (and as Mr Fish suggested above).....

...and my opinion is that the HPFP will show significant gains but only with a map that will use it and, although it pains me to say it, the only Stage 1 map that may do this with notable gains and without a bunch of other mods is Revo.

Just an opinion so please feel free to shoot it down as this is a learning process for me.

Whether or not its £700 worth of more gains is debatable

Read £700+ and then add the difference in cost between a Revo and others

I think you have brought me to the conclusion that I was going to make based on all the evidence from published RRs along with the thoughts and opinions of some of the forum members that I personally trust imho (and as Mr Fish suggested above).....

...and my opinion is that the HPFP will show significant gains but only with a map that will use it and, although it pains me to say it, the only Stage 1 map that may do this with notable gains and without a bunch of other mods is Revo.

Just an opinion so please feel free to shoot it down as this is a learning process for me.

No that sounds fine. As I said earlier you only need more fuel if you are throwing more air in and the map can deal with it. Generally stage 1 + pump would not be the way to go unless your numbers have come up.

That's quite a bit of kit and money for the extra 20 bhp but I guess it was worth it.

Interesting to see the Mk2 above it on the JKM site i.e. Chipped UK Stg2 + AutoTech Fuel Pump only giving 236.8 bhp. Torque is a tad peaky at 270 lbft at 3000 rpm and generall levels out about 250 mid-way.

ChippedUk = bad remaps!! IMO Avoid them.

I have the Autotech internals which I bought very cheaply on here in anticipation of the remap which is coming soon, so I am watching this thread very closely

well, tbh, I wouldn't swap my Stage 1 Pendle map (I think they use a German map iirc) for it.

Don't forget to post back on how you get on, Martin - I'm watching too! Are you going with Revo?

Edited 5 October, 200916 yr by muckipup
typo

Will do when Crimbo finally comes but it's looking like DNA so far.

Harry that's your before and after? Can you list your mods (not the brakes, I know about them )?

I remember you saying yours was Revo Stage2+ and HPFP yet it's only making 260bhp and 275lb/ftish whereas others are showing more torque with some Revo Stage1 maps?

It might just be my eyes but my graph appears to make roughly the same torque but for longer and roughly the same bhp but for longer, with smoother curves. And I don't have an upgraded HPFP.

The problem i think is with the Stage 2+ code though ben

It doesn't produce on the Dyno what it does on the road. In reality Harry's car will have had around 280+bhp and 320+lb/ft on Stage 2+

HTH

Carl:thumbup: