Is there any chance we can keep the bull**** out of the thread please? I don't want it locking as there's some informative stuff and there'll be more to add soon.

Thread tidied up - please keep it on topic everyone, this is one of the best threads in the forum being ruined by immature tripe. :thumbdwn:

Well it has been suggested that it's smoother than most

Still enjoying the Passat?

Enjoying the Passat? Im loving it put it this way, I've stopped wishing I had my vRS back

This thread has regrettably been compromised by 3 trolls - flyingcock/flying atom, jock the strap and bonking frog - all of whom have been permanently banned along with another troll in waiting. I have permanently deleted their posts. Additionally, all posts either quoting or replying to those posts, or relating to their activities or membership, have been soft-deleted or edited acccordingly so that no trace remains of their antisocial behaviour. Hopefully this will set the thread back on track. If anyone considers that a post of theirs has been inappropriately soft-deleted, let me know and I will reinstate it.

This thread has regrettably been compromised by 3 trolls - flyingcock/flying atom, jock the strap and bonking frog - all of whom have been permanently banned along with another troll in waiting. I have permanently deleted their posts. Additionally, all posts either quoting or replying to those posts, or relating to their activities or membership, have been soft-deleted or edited acccordingly so that no trace remains of their antisocial behaviour. Hopefully this will set the thread back on track. If anyone considers that a post of theirs has been inappropriately soft-deleted, let me know and I will reinstate it.

As i am nearly new to this forum i would like to say a big thanks to DGW for this quote as i think the people responsible are idiots and have nothing else better to do with there time!!!:thumbup: As i go round this forum i think this is one of the best threads on here. A big thanks to Shark 90 for taking the time and effort in doing it and sharing his knowledge with us all. Cheers Ben:thumbup:

Erm Tom no it wasn't as i now have all the parts that were on that car on mine :P

Here is a link to the Same Car with Just Stage 1, Cat Back & Autotech HPFP. Second from Bottom row Car in the middle and it only made 245bhp :P

Click me

When that car got 266bhp it had the following

Miltek TBE (not CBE)

Neuspeed Turbo Outlet

EVOMS

DV Relocated

S3 Intercooler

Autotech Pump

All of which (less the DP, CAT & EVOMS i bought them new) are now on my car :P

So im afraid it's you who is wrong again Tom :P:P:P:P

Carl:thumbup:

It was only a CAT Back Carl, oh and you forgot the Iridium plugs

That's quite a bit of kit and money for the extra 20 bhp but I guess it was worth it.

Interesting to see the Mk2 above it on the JKM site i.e. Chipped UK Stg2 + AutoTech Fuel Pump only giving 236.8 bhp. Torque is a tad peaky at 270 lbft at 3000 rpm and generall levels out about 250 mid-way.

I can confirm that after a couple of wasted visits to the original tuner for tweaks the owner of this car eventually bought REVO software and loved it. In fact it has only just been replaced for another Octy vRS which has recently had REVO software installed.

Well the guy who is doing my remap says there is no need for the hpfp because he knows how to avoid the fuel cut. He also says i won't gain any extra with it on unless i get a high flow cat and system.

Try another Tuner then Martin, clearly he doesn't understand the mechanics of how the fuel pressure is achieved. I think I'd be correct in saying that Micky 32 has been down this route of the tuner claiming to be the answer to all things fuel cut, I might be mistaken but I think Micky now has REVO software.

It's quite common to confuse pressure with volume. The third party modified pumps don't increase overall fuel pressure (Rail pressure is limited to approximately 130 bar) what it does do is, by giving a greater volume of fuel, maintain the fuel rail pressure at lower RPM's.

This page at APR should help explain the function of the HP fuel pump - APR 2.0T FSI High Pressure Fuel Pump

However in summary -

The limitation of how much volume of fuel the high pressure pump can flow is dependent upon the volume displaced by the pressurizing cylinder inside the pump and the number of times the piston reciprocates inside that cylinder. Since the high pressure pump is driven off of the engine camshaft by a three lobe cam the piston of the pump cycles at 1.5 times the engine rpm. (Engine camshaft turns at one-half engine rpm multiplied by three for the number of lobes on the high pressure cam lobe).

Due to this dependency on engine rpm for the high pressure fuel pump output volume' date=' the FSI pump is capable of flowing almost 370hp at 7000 rpm but only 158hp at 3000rpm. The graph below illustrates the maximum horsepower potential of the stock fuel pump compared to the APR FSI fuel pump. Also on the graph are stock and APR Stage III horsepower numbers. Clearly, the stock pump is insufficient for the output generated by this upgraded kit. The only way to address this issue while maintaining a pump that fits in the stock location is to change the volume of the pump's internal pressurization chamber.[/quote']

So at the top end of the rev range the pump is displacing enough fuel to generate 370bhp but low to mid range is only displacing enough to generate 158bhp. As fuel displacement is directly proportional to engine revs, its safe to say fuel output and thus potential power is going to be a nice linear trace.

the maps we're talking about here are from stage 1 to 2+ well under 370bhp, Can you explain to me why the fuel pump needs it volume increasing? surely with some carefull mapping to produce a nice linear power curve, up to 300bhp should be easily achiveable with the stock fuel pump?

the revo map and code red on a 2.0TFSi in a GTi and my own vRS respectively that i've both spent a fair deal of time with were anything but linear, torque came in, in one big lump and the power noticeably dropped off towards the red line. At the time i was told this was due to the limitations of the fuel pump, how can this be if the stock pump is good for 370bhp @ 7k when I was looking well under 300bhp?

Having since been for a quick ride in another vRS with similar mods to the GTi but with a map from Shark Peformance, I was amazed to find the car was running the stock fuel pump and pulled cleanly with no drop off in power to the redline. Why could I not achieve this with the Revo and Code Red maps I tried?

Edited 18 October, 200916 yr by dan_the_v8man

Maybe the Revo map gives a lot of low down punch and needs the extra fuel but other maps give it higher up the rev range. I thought the fuel cut on the Revo map came at high rpm though doesn't it?

A K04 equipped car will do over 300hp on the stock pump but you will never get that from a K03.

Fuel cut only comes about as the car is pulling more air than it has fuel to cope with.

A K04 equipped car will do over 300hp on the stock pump but you will never get that from a K03.

Fuel cut only comes about as the car is pulling more air than it has fuel to cope with.

Exactly hence why I smell a rat when tuners start blaming a more than adeqaute pump for short comings with there map, especially when its my own money i've thrown at them

Maybe the Revo map gives a lot of low down punch and needs the extra fuel but other maps give it higher up the rev range. I thought the fuel cut on the Revo map came at high rpm though doesn't it?

Yes, which according to APR is when the pump should be delivering enough fuel for 370bhp

If you want a strong pulling car from low down then you need more fuel and more air, the more air you get in the more fuel you can add along with a nice drop of timing.

An optimum setup is a car that is strong from quite low down right through the mid range and on to the peak RPM. If you aren't looking to maximise potential then I guess fuel pressure can be 'managed' but to achieve the better gains you'll certainly be wanting to consider it.

I have seen logs from a stock Cupra which clearly showed the fuel rail pressure hovering on the boundaries of fuel cut.

Fuel cut occurs in the mid range, which as I tried to explain above is when engine speed isn't sufficient to provide the requested fuel volume and hence rail pressure.

and surely if its occuring mid range thats down to a very peaky power curve? Hence suggesting a more linear map would be better suited to the application allowing power to match what the fuel pump can handle. okay you might loose some of the mid range grunt but you could gain what you loose with a few more revs (now im sounding scarily like a vtec fan lol)

I think the whole point of the K03 engined cars is that you can get them spooled up and delivering the goods low down.

How far you then want it to carry on for i.e. Revo stages 2 and 2+ also depends on the additional hardware such as intake, exhaust and ultimately fuel pump.

What you describe is more like the K04 engined cars as they tend to be a bit more laggy at the bottom end but give a much bigger bang once up and running and with the right additional hardware will continue well into the red.

Couldnt agree with you more, which is why mine never went past stage 1. my vRS Stage 1 certaiinly felt faster than the GTi ED30 i took for a test drive, It was more the stage 2, 2+ cars I was referring to

Trust me when I say the Ed30 with software and hardware is quite a weapon.

And still scrabble-drive S3 is where it's at which is probably what I'll end up with next. Or a V10 S8. Can't decide yet

Trust me when I say the Ed30 with software and hardware is quite a weapon.

I imagine it is unfortunatly I only got drive the standard car

Ben, its got to be the S8 - super saloons all the way

I know mate.. And all the technology too! Really fancy one.

and all that fuel....

gaz from the mk5 forum took me out in his stage 2+ S3 when we were having our intakes fitted and no joking it was ridiculously fast. on his last RR outing i think he said he was getting around 330bhp. the ko4 engines go like he.

When you gonna bite the bullet and get your K04 then Simon? :P

When you gonna bite the bullet and get your K04 then Simon? :P

i need to do a back to back drive i think with mine and a k04 converted vRS to see the difference i think before i splash out. If your local to me you could always scare me into it:rolleyes:. im in kent.....

in the mean time i have ben very busy. this month has been extremely expensive, ITG air intake fitted, side engine,lower engine and transmission mounts have been pre-ordered, and have just bought a set of second hand R32 brakes.

k04 WILL not be going on before my diff though. get a nice tidy bonus in july so the diff will be going on then.

gaz from the mk5 forum took me out in his stage 2+ S3 when we were having our intakes fitted and no joking it was ridiculously fast. on his last RR outing i think he said he was getting around 330bhp. the ko4 engines go like he.

330bhp on a Stage 2+ S3? I should hope so! This is a totally vanilla car, with just a remap:

Edited 19 October, 200916 yr by shark_90
iPhone image fail!

repeat post:O

Edited 19 October, 200916 yr by simonskerton
repeat post

by vanilla do you mean just a remap on a std car

hes using apr software with TBE fuel pump etc.

what you need to do is stage 2+ your car and get it down JKM for some figures, I'll get mine dyno'd as well then we'll have 3 different brands of stage 2+ results, revo bluefin, shark if yours is better than mine which shouldnt be to hard ill get one off you there and then, if its possible