A little more pride in Britain please

[Lady Elanore]

When I was young, I was taught to stand up when the National (Royal) Anthem was played. I was also taught it should be sung as well. So what I would like, in an unashamed swelling of nationalistic pride, is for Lewis Hamilton/Jenson button et al, to sing the anthem when they are on the winner’s podium. I feel sure that when the ‘honours’ are bestowed on them they will gratefully be accepted, so I think it wouldn’t be the hardest thing in the world for them to sing ‘God save the Queen’. It would shame every other driver (or sportsman for that matter) as it would show not only pride in his country (God knows we could do with some) and that he wasn’t just thinking about himself.

We should start a campaign to show the world we care about Britain. Or conversely get a true national anthem (hint…the Last Night of the Proms has a great contender or two) as the current one we sing is technically the Royal Anthem.

[daveyonthemove]

Didn't there used to be the word Great before Britain?

I think we can thank our leaders for this 'lack of pride' as anytime we try to show some, we are beaten back with the 'P.C stick' and told that we are offending the ones that live here and hate us.

And as usual, we just accept it and give up trying.

[Lady Elanore]

Didn't there used to be the word Great before Britain?

I think we can thank our leaders for this 'lack of pride' as anytime we try to show some, we are beaten back with the 'P.C stick' and told that we are offending the ones that live here and hate us.

And as usual, we just accept it and give up trying.

I think the ‘Great' does not mean ‘The Best’ or ‘At the Top’ etc, but rather as in Greater Manchester, so I can live without it

But the anthem is an interesting one. Although it’s accepted as out National and Royal Anthem, I don’t believe it has ever been ratified (do you ratify an anthem?) as the national one. In any case, I just think it would impress a lot of ppl if say Hamilton took of his tonsurily (sp?) sponsored head gear and sang.

[daveyonthemove]

The Term GREAT was earned (long before any of us were around) because this country was Great. it had a massive empire, and was feared by many countries.

No we have lost sight of what we were and just seem to plod on allowing others to come here and do as they please.

As for the anthem, it would be nice to see it sung by our sporting greats, but it's unlikely.

Maybe they should be offered more money if they sing it, then i'm sure we'd hear them loud and proud.

[Lady Elanore]

The Term GREAT was earned (long before any of us were around) because this country was Great. it had a massive empire, and was feared by many countries.

.

The term ‘Great’ goes back many hundreds of years were it was used to differential between ‘Greater’ Britain and ‘Lesser’ Britain (roughly Brittany) and was again used to shore up some Royal kingdoms and marriages (mainly between the Scots and the English). There are a few historians like Swedishskoda who can, no doubt, elucidate us to the full derivation, but I am pretty sure that the Great doesn’t mean what we would like it to mean.

[Leodhasach]

Too...many...fancy...words

I'm with Billy Connolly on this one...replace our dirge of a national anthem with the theme tune from The Archers

Then people will sing (or hum...) along

[Soot1e]

I agree with you wholeheartly LE, most of us are still proud to be British, its only the wingers and politicians that have beaten us into submission to call ourselves good Europeans. It's all a big plan to join Europe in the future.

As for a new National Anthem 'Jerusalem' is a good choice but i see a few problems in the title.

[Babs]

Eddie Izzard proposes a jazz version.

I think basically, our national anthem is depressing!

[Clunkclick]

Sorry Lady E, but this sort of c*rp makes me angry.

Patriotism is a literally a dead-end street. Just look what's happening at the moment in you know where.

Margaret Hilda introduced the notion of everyone for themselves and existential doubt in respect of society twenty years ago. This seems to have had fairly widespread adoption and acceptance over here by the horny-handed sons of toil, so how does a sense of national pride fit in with this ? I'll tell you how. By serving the purposes of the sort of people characterised by the Attenborough character in the Boulting Brothers film " I'm All Right Jack". On the face of it tub thumping nationalist for media purposes, who behind the scenes are selling the ordinary man down the river.

Thinking about it, there's probably no better way, at the moment, to demonstrate your patriotism, if that's your bag, than to join the armed forces and get posted for a six month tour in the far away place.

Once you done a tour there, there's the possibility that you might have a bit of difficulty rising to the good old NA.

Of course, you'd have to be severely disadvantaged working class living in an unemployment blackspot or have a family history of armed forces service to be motivated enough to be that patriotic !

Poor sods.

Lady E, any takers ? Fancy appearing on a BBC documentary in a distressed state for the sake of patriotism ?

Stuff nationalism, phoney locality-based pride, idiot tribal football supporters and all the tribal rootes of this sort of behaviour. Its definitely designed for those with too much testosterone and a grey-matter deficiency top-side.

Remember patriotisms most notable achievement, sending 60,000 daily over-the-top on the Somme for a fate worse than . . . and ladies handing out white feathers to those that refused to play.

Genius.

Nick

[expostmanpat]

No comment

[Soot1e]

Sorry Lady E, but this sort of c*rp makes me angry.

Patriotism is a literally a dead-end street. Just look what's happening at the moment in you know where.

Margaret Hilda introduced the notion of everyone for themselves and existential doubt in respect of society twenty years ago. This seems to have had fairly widespread adoption and acceptance over here by the horny-handed sons of toil, so how does a sense of national pride fit in with this ? I'll tell you how. By serving the purposes of the sort of people characterised by the Attenborough character in the Boulting Brothers film " I'm All Right Jack". On the face of it tub thumping nationalist for media purposes, who behind the scenes are selling the ordinary man down the river.

Thinking about it, there's probably no better way, at the moment, to demonstrate your patriotism, if that's your bag, than to join the armed forces and get posted for a six month tour in the far away place.

Once you done a tour there, there's the possibility that you might have a bit of difficulty rising to the good old NA.

Of course, you'd have to be severely disadvantaged working class living in an unemployment blackspot or have a family history of armed forces service to be motivated enough to be that patriotic !

Poor sods.

Lady E, any takers ? Fancy appearing on a BBC documentary in a distressed state for the sake of patriotism ?

Stuff nationalism, phoney locality-based pride, idiot tribal football supporters and all the tribal rootes of this sort of behaviour. Its definitely designed for those with too much testosterone and a grey-matter deficiency top-side.

Remember patriotisms most notable achievement, sending 60,000 daily over-the-top on the Somme for a fate worse than . . . and ladies handing out white feathers to those that refused to play.

Genius.

Nick

:sofahide: Now there's one angry man!

[fluffmeister]

I have a family history of armed forces service, I stand for the national anthem and think others should. There is nothing wrong in having pride in your nation and respect for it's achievement's.

This nation has achieved many great things, in fact if it was not for a Briton then we would not be on the Web and Briskoda may not exist

I am now waiting patiently for one of the glass half empty brigade to come along and remind us of what an evil nation we where and in the eyes of some sectors of society, still are.

The Union flag needs to be reclaimed from the likes of the far right and the BNP, I am with Lady E on this one, have some pride in being British!

[Clunkclick]

This sentiment, in the context of F1 racing drivers doesn't arise.

They all work for multi-national organisations, who are staffed and sponsored accordingly.

Since when have they suddenly become privateer country-based entrants. We haven't seen that since the days of Fanjio.

Patriotism really doesn't apply now.

Unconditional loyality only gets you slave status nowadays.

I vote for Piers Morgan and his like amongst Fleet street editors (That's about all of them ) to stop wasting their time flag waving on page three and sign 'emselves up, like the Kemp fellow - he was much appreciated ROFL.

I don't honestly see us having much credibility with regards to solving the Worlds current troubles, if on the one-hand we cricticise those leaders who rely on some do-or-die 14th Century regilious dogma to govern their masses 21st century every-day lives, whilst relying on the 1707 Act of Union to regulate ours.

I think, up to a point pride is appropriate in individual acts of achievement e.g a win in F1 GP by the Hamilton kid, bravery etc. So we should be proud of say the record of achievement of the A & E department at the local hospital or the building of the local -by-pass. All, dare i say, "Concrete" things for which the input/output relation is clearly apparent. But nationalism, nah. Too airy fairy and easily subverted by the Dr Evils.

Nick

Edited 27 September, 2009 by Clunkclick

[ultra_joel88]

No comment

Agreed.

Why would Hamilton sing the National Anthem? He doesn't even live here and pay tax, which to be fair, if I was in his position I would do exactly the same.

[daveyonthemove]

Thinking about it, there's probably no better way, at the moment, to demonstrate your patriotism, if that's your bag, than to join the armed forces and get posted for a six month tour in the far away place.

Joining the Armed forces is a good way to show patriotism, but its not the only way.

Supporting those of us that have joined is a perfectly good way IMO

Once you done a tour there, there's the possibility that you might have a bit of difficulty rising to the good old NA.

I've been to the desert on a few occasions, and i still feel pride when i hear the NA.

Its seeing the way our fallen are treated when they return that makes me ashamed of our country.

Of course, you'd have to be severely disadvantaged working class living in an unemployment blackspot or have a family history of armed forces service to be motivated enough to be that patriotic !

Poor sods.

Complete ******!

I'm sure the people of Cranwall and Sandhurst don't fit into this category (Forgotten about our serving ROYAL members?) and although i'm not an Officer, i certainly wasn't brought into the world in an area or class with a disadvantage. In fact, i had a very good upbringing, both my parents earned alot more than most of our neighbours, and i had no problems finding work between the age of 15 when i left school, and 19 when i signed on the line for the RAF.

I also don't appreciate the pity you give me for doing something i wanted to do when i left school, and for doing my bit for this country.

At the end of the day, you don't have to dodge bullets to show pride in your country, and untill very recently nobody really gave a sh!t either way.

[Clunkclick]

Complete ******!

I'm sure the people of Cranwall and Sandhurst don't fit into this category (Forgotten about our serving ROYAL members?) and although i'm not an Officer, i certainly wasn't brought into the world in an area or class with a disadvantage. In fact, i had a very good upbringing, both my parents earned alot more than most of our neighbours, and i had no problems finding work between the age of 15 when i left school, and 19 when i signed on the line for the RAF.

I also don't appreciate the pity you give me for doing something i wanted to do when i left school, and for doing my bit for this country.

At the end of the day, you don't have to dodge bullets to show pride in your country, and untill very recently nobody really gave a sh!t either way.

I work in the MOD too, I don't think my proposition is that outrageous.

The Royal members are almost obliged by social/constitutional convention to serve - its not really a career choice for them and then they are really just playing at it, 3 months here, six months there.Its a joke.

I appreciate your individual circumstances but, Plymouth, Portsmouth, the Hampshire London overflow towns, Caterick, Tyne and Wear, South Wales and the Scottish Lowlands have been the prime recruiting areas for some time and, these areas have had above average unemployment and social deprivation, fact. Also, trades people are not the majority of those serving.

Whilst I appreciate your sign-up is unconditional and that you can be sent anywhere,no-one would really want to be sent to Afghan or Iraq situation out of choice, let alone put in a shooting gallery as an Aunt Sally, without their being some personal or national gains in sight as an offset, prospect of promotion or extra dosh. Most of us are aware that the spend level out in these places has been conditioned by a UK domestic agenda, rather than what's needed to be done at the locality. So the reconstruction achievements have been minimal and I don't think re-inventing nationalism for the UK public is enough compensation for the sacrifice. But that is what certain elements in our society are trying to peddle at the moment. False pride.

That's totally dishonest.

Nick

[ednmra]

It isn't surprising there is little pride in our country - there isn't much pride in anything these days!

"Quality" is almost a dirty word - liking anything above gutter level seems to often label us as a snob.

Anyway, at present I think we are sleepwalking into a peculiar situation where we will soon be living in a foreign country, or actually a province of a foreign country, even if it is still called Britain (that's if they let us keep the name!)

Everyone has a go at Thatcher but I think she was trying to say "get up on to your own two feet and build a life." This present lot of liars and wimps are not fit to clean her shoes, but I don't think we will get anything a whole lot better anytime soon!

[Lady Elanore]

Wow Clunkclick, don’t forget to breathe. Not sure who or what has rattled your cage in the past, but I wasn’t thinking of you when I posted the thread. Fyi I consider the people in the Armed Forces to be the most patriotic of citizens and would not even consider them for a nano second as not being so.

For what it is worth, I was trying to raise the point of showing a little allegiance to our country; after all it produced Hamilton and his mates. It isn’t just the pampered F1 guys either, I was thinking of any sportsperson too. Can you imagine Rooney singing the anthem? Or for that matter can you imagine Rooney being able to remember the words? Or politicians (but not necessarily trying to sing the Welsh nation anthem unless they know the words) singing the anthem when in the presence of it.

I am not a Royalist, but I do think we should show a bit of solidarity when it comes to our country.

[ultra_joel88]

Wow Clunkclick, don’t forget to breathe. Not sure who or what has rattled your cage in the past, but I wasn’t thinking of you when I posted the thread. Fyi I consider the people in the Armed Forces to be the most patriotic of citizens and would not even consider them for a nano second as not being so.

For what it is worth, I was trying to raise the point of showing a little allegiance to our country; after all it produced Hamilton and his mates. It isn’t just the pampered F1 guys either, I was thinking of any sportsperson too. Can you imagine Rooney singing the anthem? Or for that matter can you imagine Rooney being able to remember the words? Or politicians (but not necessarily trying to sing the Welsh nation anthem unless they know the words) singing the anthem when in the presence of it.

I am not a Royalist, but I do think we should show a bit of solidarity when it comes to our country.

Why though? Just because somebody is British doesn't mean I automatically like them above people from other countries?

Having worked in a retail environment for 3 years, and being quite an observant person, I can say with some quiet confidence that a not insignificant section of the "Great" British public are uneducated, lazy, drunken slobs who are quite content to shoot their mouths off about other peoples and countries without caring to take a look in the mirror.

How can I be proud of a country, which I hate to come back to after spending 3 weeks on the continent, in a "non-tourist" location?

When it comes to "British" culture, I find myself wholly ashamed to be British. All it seems to consist of is possessing a distinct lack of ambition, and getting ****ed in a town centre every Friday or Saturday night. Britain is the sick man of Europe, it's not the immigrants causing the problem, or the government, its Joe Bloggs himself, IMHO.

[fikes75]

Everybody has their own opinion about Britain ,just ask the imigrants they think it's Great, me not so , i can't speak for anybody else but i don't think most people sign up for the services because of Patriotism ,for most it will be a career but i'm sure i will be told otherwise. Britain is too keen to please everyone else and forgets it's own people ,Soldiers getting paid a pittance to fight abroad, imigrants getting handouts right left and centre,never mind them what about our own ,that ain't so great ,oh and i ain't British, im Scottish .

[ultra_joel88]

Everybody has their own opinion about Britain ,just ask the imigrants they think it's Great, me not so , i can't speak for anybody else but i don't think most people sign up for the services because of Patriotism ,for most it will be a career but i'm sure i will be told otherwise. Britain is too keen to please everyone else and forgets it's own people ,Soldiers getting paid a pittance to fight abroad, imigrants getting handouts right left and centre,never mind them what about our own ,that ain't so great ,oh and i ain't British, im Scottish .

What about our own?

Most of them are predjudiced, arrogant cretins who won't get off their **** for less than £8 an hour.

At least the immigrants actually want to work.

[Lady Elanore]

Why though? Just because somebody is British doesn't mean I automatically like them above people from other countries?

Having worked in a retail environment for 3 years, and being quite an observant person, I can say with some quiet confidence that a not insignificant section of the "Great" British public are uneducated, lazy, drunken slobs who are quite content to shoot their mouths off about other peoples and countries without caring to take a look in the mirror.

How can I be proud of a country, which I hate to come back to after spending 3 weeks on the continent, in a "non-tourist" location?

When it comes to "British" culture, I find myself wholly ashamed to be British. All it seems to consist of is possessing a distinct lack of ambition, and getting ****ed in a town centre every Friday or Saturday night. Britain is the sick man of Europe, it's not the immigrants causing the problem, or the government, its Joe Bloggs himself, IMHO.

Well you should pack up shop and bugger off abroad then really. Or, how about we get a bit of pride and respect going and try to pull out of this mess. I agree with most of what you are saying, but the point of this thread is to rail against the lack of respect and pride. We need role models if the great unwashed are to ever show any respect to others and pride in our country is linked to respect imho.

[ultra_joel88]

Well you should pack up shop and bugger off abroad then really. Or, how about we get a bit of pride and respect going and try to pull out of this mess. I agree with most of what you are saying, but the point of this thread is to rail against the lack of respect and pride. We need role models if the great unwashed are to ever show any respect to others and pride in our country is linked to respect imho.

That is what I intend to do at some point

The only role models that seem fit for public consumption these days are people like Katie Price. People that have never achieved anything.

[Brimma]

When I was young, I was taught to stand up when the National (Royal) Anthem was played. I was also taught it should be sung as well. So what I would like, in an unashamed swelling of nationalistic pride, is for Lewis Hamilton/Jenson button et al, to sing the anthem when they are on the winner’s podium. I feel sure that when the ‘honours’ are bestowed on them they will gratefully be accepted, so I think it wouldn’t be the hardest thing in the world for them to sing ‘God save the Queen’. It would shame every other driver (or sportsman for that matter) as it would show not only pride in his country (God knows we could do with some) and that he wasn’t just thinking about himself.

We should start a campaign to show the world we care about Britain. Or conversely get a true national anthem (hint…the Last Night of the Proms has a great contender or two) as the current one we sing is technically the Royal Anthem.

Big problem for Lewis Hamilton though Amanda - does he sing the national anthem of his home country, or the national anthem of the country where he keeps his bank account ?

[fikes75]

What about our own.

If you read it properly you would have noticed i was on about our soldiers .

Edited 27 September, 2009 by fikes75