(Turbo) Petrol -v- Diesel

[dan_the_v8man]

being a bit of a diesel fan myself id still have the 1.4tsi

[Babs]

Petrol!

[Brimma]

Petrol!

Shut it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Babs]

Quiet you!

[David 8]

Petrol!

I've been waiting for you too spring up in this thread, left it a bit late havn't you :rofl:

[Babs]

Sorry, I've been busy.

Your mum says hi.

[Brimma]

Sorry, I've been busy.

Your mum says hi.

OMG - why does that remind me of this ?

Edited 6 February, 2010 by Brimma

[Stevoraith]

Firstly I think you made the right choice based on what you state your needs to be. So many people will blindly buy the diesel because of the better mpg ignoring the fact that unless they do 25k+ the higher cost of fuel makes a petrol engine cheaper even without factoring in the (usually) higher purchase price of a diesel and the bigger bills such as DMF failure or the cost of a diesel fuel pump which on some brands is way above and beyond that of the petrol alternative.

Sorry mate but the part in bold is rubbish. There is currently a 2p per litre difference between petrol and diesel.

At that price difference if you manage to get 40mpg out of your petrol (which would be a fantastic achievement) you'd only need to get 41mpg out of your diesel (very easily achievable) to make it cheaper on fuel.

Also, it doesn't matter how many miles a year you do, it's purely how many miles you will do in the time you have the car. You only pay the extra for buying the diesel once so you've got the whole time you own it to make that cash back.

I feel a lot of people blindly spout "you need to do X thousand miles per year to make a diesel worthwhile" without actually thinking about it.

A colleague is currently looking to buy an Octavia and he's unsure whether to go for the 1.8TSI or the 2.0TDI. I worked out for him that it would take about 60k miles to make back the extra outlay on the diesel.

He does 10k a year but tends to keep cars for 8-10 years, so in the long term the diesel would still be cheaper- but it would take a while to recoup the difference.

In his case he's going to drive them both and see which he prefers as they both have their pros and cons financially, so it really comes down to which he prefers.

Sounds like the original poster did the same and made the right choice for him.

Also a diesel engine is not the stupidly simple bomb proof beast of old, with the demand for more refined engines came the same issues/level of complexity of a modern petrol engine.

This bit may be true (although the 1.9 and 140bhp 2.0 PD engines are pretty reliable) but I've got a feeling that as petrols come under more pressure to get better emmisssions with the same power and they increasingly move to forced induction, they may go down the same route as diesels in terms reliability.

[Phil_P]

Also, it doesn't matter how many miles a year you do, it's purely how many miles you will do in the time you have the car. You only pay the extra for buying the diesel once so you've got the whole time you own it to make that cash back.

Indeed, and don't forget, just as your diesel cost more to purchase, you'll probably get more for it when selling it so the depreciation is probably the same meaning it's no more expensive in cost of ownership over the period you've owned it - it's the depreciation that is the true cost, not the purchase price.

[dilly]

I'm not convinced the residual value argument is going to carry on holding water. Sales of diesel cars are falling in the UK (and even more so in Europe) which suggests that people are returning to petrol engined cars. If low capacity, high efficiency turbo petrols become all the rage, diesel values could fall.

Moreover, in order to meet Euro VI emissions legislation, diesels are probably going to have to get even more expensive. According to the D Tele this Saturday, cars already have to have £1000 of stuff like DPFs bolted on to get them through the existing legislation (let alone the next lot). And for those who complain (rightly) that the 1.4 TSI will have a lot less torque than a diesel so that it becomes necessary to stir the gearbox a lot more in order to overtake, the 7-speed DSG is surely the answer?

dill

[toureos]

I'm not convinced the residual value argument is going to carry on holding water. Sales of diesel cars are falling in the UK (and even more so in Europe) which suggests that people are returning to petrol engined cars. If low capacity, high efficiency turbo petrols become all the rage, diesel values could fall.

Moreover, in order to meet Euro VI emissions legislation, diesels are probably going to have to get even more expensive. According to the D Tele this Saturday, cars already have to have £1000 of stuff like DPFs bolted on to get them through the existing legislation (let alone the next lot). And for those who complain (rightly) that the 1.4 TSI will have a lot less torque than a diesel so that it becomes necessary to stir the gearbox a lot more in order to overtake, the 7-speed DSG is surely the answer?

dill

The Daily Telegraph article that Dilly refers to is at Daily Telegraph

[Phil_P]

I'm not convinced the residual value argument is going to carry on holding water. Sales of diesel cars are falling in the UK (and even more so in Europe) which suggests that people are returning to petrol engined cars. If low capacity, high efficiency turbo petrols become all the rage, diesel values could fall.

I don't dispute that, but I wonder if it's a trend that will continue once the scrappage scheme(s) end, as they have no doubt favoured the small cheap(er) petrol engined vehicles.

[krob2]

I've just been through the consideration myself and opted to swap my Mazda 6 TD 143 for a new Octavia TSi 1.8

The 6 was my second and the economy was considerably worse than the first - it had the DPF - it wouldn't do much more than 40mpg which I found very disappointing for a Diesel.

As I do about 14,000 a year thought that if the Octavia would get anywhere near 40 then I'd be well happy and it was worth a shot. So far and its early days it doesn't seem to be too bad - certainly not noticeably worse than the Mazda. The killer with Diesel over the last few years has been the price difference with petrol. At the moment its not too bad at about 2p but a couple of years back it was more like 13p a litre more. I think the price of diesel could become more volatile as industry recovers from recession. Amazed the cold weather hasn't had more of an impact.

The TSi engine is a real peach - even tight it feels really flexible and easy to drive. After the Mazda diesel it is so quiet and smooth.

[Cauliflower]

Don't want to go off message here, but I thought it might interest you to hear my experience of visiting a typical Skoda dealer to buy a new Octavia over the past few weeks. While there seems to be an adequate demand for most models, there's only one show in town at the moment and that's YETI. In the several 30- 60 minute sessions in which I negotiated my new Octavia, I was conscious of a constant stream of 2.4 children families all looking for the 2 litre 4WD diesel and all test driving the 1.2 2WD petrol. The franchise I am dealing with for my Octavia had only one 1.2 petrol Yeti for test driving with presumably silly delivery timescales for 4WD diesels. I get the impression Skoda thought this was a 'niche' market. Methinks they need to rethink...

[toureos]

A quote someone made on another thread about petrol turbos possibly getting as complicated as diesel turbos got me wondering what the differences were between the actual turbos themselves. The best explanation I could find is at Petrol and diesel Turbos. It seems that diesel turbos have quite a bit harder life in terms of heat and use compared to petrol ones.

[Cauliflower]

Toureos, as a side issue to your article there is a point to be made about popular perception. Most of my diesel owning friends, upon hearing of my choice of a 1.4 TSi have questioned: (1) whether such a small engine, albeit turbo-charged, in a car the size of the Octavia, is up to the job; and (2) whether I might be facing a large bill when the turbo fails. Fair dues on (1), for I wondered that myself (a test drive of a similar Golf having dispelled my doubt). But in relation to (2), when I asked if that was a concern for them when they went to buy their diesel cars, they insisted that was different matter as diesels placed much less 'load' on the turbo. I will now take some satisfaction in sending them a link to your article. Incidentally, back in the mid 1980s, I bought a Fiat Uno Turbo. The concept of turbocharging was still regarded as quite exotic and my friends thought I was a nutcase and eagerly awaited the day that the turbo would somehow 'blow up' the engine. Other than a bit of a lag at the start of the revs, it went like a rocket and I had several trouble free years with it (the turbo that is, the rest of the car fell to bits which were replaced on a rolling basis!!!).

[Stuart_J]

To Generalise Petrol / Diesel will vary between different models & different manufacturers, there are good & bad in both.

I run both & for me its Petrol for fun as its more responsive & tuning is easy. For the day to day hack it has to be diesel, strong rugged reliable & will do zillions of miles with good mpg. Our current Octy thats about to be replaced is still going fine with 157000 miles on it & averages a whisker over 50 mpg

The original poster is a low mileage driver so I cant see the point of him paying a premium for a diesel car & with mpg's falling on newer models due to the emissions baggage they now carry that reduces even more the economic argument. Petrol will also always be quieter & feel a bit more social.

For anyone looking at high mileage in the future Im not sure where its going, both diesel & petrol cars are becoming far more complex & smaller & smaller engines are being tuned harder & harder so the cheap costs of running high mileage diesels may be offset by more & more of the "added extras" failing with consiquentional high repair costs. I for one will only be reassured when the warranty mileages are extended, Skoda is still I believe only 60K.

Our new car will be a PD140 as its a known entity & problem wise I know whats likely to happen, CR needs to be proven to me, Ive heard one horror story already on an Audi, injectors failing with a 2K bill, probably just a one off but who knows ??

Edited 18 February, 2010 by Stuart_J

[Cauliflower]

Stuart_J, you raise interesting issues when summing up the "good & bad in both" between petrol and diesel. Petrol is "for fun", while diesel is "strong rugged reliable & will do zillions of miles with good mpg". I'm inclined to agree, however I'm a bit of a hypocrite. I was one of those people who changed from petrol to diesel some 15+ years ago "for fun" simply because of the sheer enjoyment of the torque kick. In the1990's, my 1.9 Seat Ibiza TD, chipped to the equivalent of 130bhp, could outrun virtually every petrolhead Mondeo driver on the motorway while achieving reasonable economy. However, now I'm starting to consider if the petrol engine, especially the turbo-charged variant, is in the ascendancy ...

Edited 10 February, 2010 by Cauliflower

[Babs]

Petrol, it's the way forward!

[Cauliflower]

Guys in GB, you've put the scud on me. Contacted my dealer today to see how far my Octavia 1.4 TSI has travelled since I put the deposit down (it's not an order spec, just a call-off from stock in a field in Germany). I was informed that the GB registration system means that priority has been directed to transporting all cars for GB sale (something to do with March / April registrations???). Anyway, my Northern Ireland dealer has apparently demanded some sort of 'enforced' transportation which should get it to me in the bowels of County Antrim within the foreseeable future. Incidentally, I think the Southern Ireland system of registration numbers is far better than ours - it tells you the year of the vehicle and the county of registration!!!

[Babs]

it tells you the year of the vehicle and the county of registration!!!

So does the UK system... first two letters are location, followed by a year code.

[Cauliflower]

AaaaahhhhHHHH! But my registration doesn't. Northern Ireland operates on the basis of 3 letters and 4 numbers... DON'T ASK WHY.

[Babs]

Oh yeah... why not just accept it, and become part of the UK properly?

[Riggs]

Always thought a diesel engine would be the choice if doing 15k - 20 k a yr, but once you do the maths, if keeping the car 2 - 3 yrs, its pretty even - which suprised me. Diesel engines have come on leaps and bounds over the last 5 years, but like the comments above i can see petrol making a comeback!

[digidoctor]

Correct. There is a break even point. But keep in mind that XK over ten years mean maybe only 2 % to 3% of the overall costs of the car. Summing all up. And then you drove a Diesel for 10 years on not a nice petrol engine