Fabia 1.4 TDI Oil Pump Chain

[mattvrestate]

Iv never seen a 1.4tdi oil pump chain failure.. been working at VW for the last 9 years...

But iv seen threads where this has happened + ebay ads of dirt cheap 1.4tdi polos / lupos where this has happened.. so its not un heard of..

[fizz]

Have you ever heard of anyone changing this chain; or any experience of how hard it might be?

I'm probably being paranoid- but bought this car on the basis that it was hard as nails, and I wouldn't be under it every weekend keeping it on the road, unlike my Citroens!

[hutchysrs50]

I'm sure Matt will back me up here... Aslong as its not a 2.0 your fine with oil pumps... I currently change at least 3 a week, some for conversion.

[peter3197]

I'm sure Matt will back me up here... Aslong as its not a 2.0 your fine with oil pumps... I currently change at least 3 a week, some for conversion.

Conversion to what?

[mattvrestate]

I'm sure Matt will back me up here... Aslong as its not a 2.0 your fine with oil pumps... I currently change at least 3 a week, some for conversion.

Conversion to what?

Im assuming hes talking about the 2.0tdi twin cam (BKP) where some come with chain driven oil pumps.. and u have to convert to spur gear type oil pumps.. bit of a **** job lol..

The 1.4tdi will be a chain type + will just req the sump off cambelt off + oil pump chain replacing.. then sum good quality oil

Tbh i wouldnt worry about it its not a common fault especially if ur using the correct oil

I have a 1.4tdi polo with 128k on it + i havent changed it..

[pc1472]

I know this topic was started a while ago, but the same thing happened to my Skoda Fabia 1.4TDI last weekend.

Thje oil light illuminated on the dash and the vehicle came to a halt on a main road.

The car was not driven any further and when I arrived to help, I topped up the oil, in case the problem was a basic one.

After having the vehicle removed usiang a recovery company and removing the covers, we can see the oil pump chain has snapped, causing further damage to the vehicle and conservative estimates of repairs in the £000's!!

I am collating as much information on the problem and other peoples experiences, so if anybody has any relevant information, could they please 'post' it here, before I contact customer services.

Many thanks.

[muso]

Just posted an oil pump chain failure on the roomster general topic thread -

[GreelineJon]

Hello.

 

I also have a 1.4 TDI with the 'AMF' Engine.

I've had the car from new (2010) - it completed 95,000 miles without problem.

I've performed routine servicing myself (oil changes/filters etc) - a cam belt change was completed by the retailer/dealer.

 

About two weeks ago, the car had to be pulled up on the motorway - all the symptoms of an oil pressure problem.

AA called who recovered the car to the dealer/retailer.

 

Dealer confirmed that this was an 'oil pump' problem - further investigation (sump removal) found the chain wrapped around the crankshaft.

End result - new Engine source and install - cost around £5100.

 

Took a look at the service booklet and noticed that there does not seem to be a service interval on this critical (to the useful life of the Engine) component.

The chain will wear and stretch since that's what chains do - particularly when they are used to drive contra rotating balance shafts and oil pumps.

I'm a biker (and Engineer) - I know lots about chains and looking after/replacing them.

 

If I had known that the VAG Engine had this design, I'd have paid the extra at the cam-belt change and asked them to check out and replace (if necessary) the worn critical part of the Engine. Unfortunately I had no idea that the VAG Engineers and designers had decided to use this mechanism - stupidly I put my trust in good mechanical Engineering design usually coming from VAG (so the brochures tell me).

 

Bought the car (Fabia 'Greenline' 1.4 TDI) on the basis of an expectation of 200k miles + on a well maintained Diesel Engine (I've owned Peugeots prior to the purchase of this horrible vehicle and regularly got over 220K miles from the XUD series Engines). This Engine has failed with only 95k miles on the clock.

 

Dealership has talked with Skoda UK with regards a 'goodwill payment'; I'll leave you to guess what they said/offered

No goodwill (so far) from the dealership !

 

I'm thinking of 'not fit for purpose' by reason of system (chain drive of oil pump and contra rotating balance shaft) design and the lack of a proper service regime procedure that would guard against catastrophic failure of the chain and a destroyed Engine.

 

In the meantime I'd suggest that potential buyers leave vehicles (new and second-hand) that use this Engine off of their list for consideration.

Since it's a VAG Engine this could (please check) encompass models in the Skoda, Audi , Vokswagen and Seat range - there could be many more vehicle manufacturers that use this power plant.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[mattvrestate]

Camchains or oil pump chains have no interval change on any cars.. diesel or petrol VAG or non VAG. They are designed to last the life of the car + only get replaced if they become noisy. If you use the correct oil etc then there is less chance of failures. My polo 1.4tdi has done 135k with no problems.

VAG have since moved on to use spur gear type oil pumps.

[GreelineJon]

Hi.

 

So - all down to chance; winners and losers (I'm in the second category)

 

Oil, oil filters (and oil drain nuts) purchased from the dealership with details from the service blooklet - so I think we can strike that one out.

 

No unusual noises at all from the Engine prior to the failure (that's apart from the usual noise generated by a Diesel Engine)

No grating or grinding at all.

The car was recently with the dealership to have the Cam Belt changed - they didn't spot anything untowards.

Well, at least they didn't tell me if they had noticed 'unusual' noises that would require further investigation.

 

Seems as if the 'life of the Engine' under these set of circumstances is constrained to the life of this chain. That's unless the owner is lucky enough to have a low speed failure of the chain and is able to stop the Engine before catastrophic failure occurs.

 

Judging from the reaction of the dealership - I think we'll have to let the legal people rule on this one.

 

Thank you for your response.

[GreelineJon]

Hello Matt.

 

I note that you actually work for the Volkswagen Audi group

 

I've been very interested in the 'good quality oil' debate - the inference being that (somehow) the problem was caused by poor servicing.

 

Would you think the oil supplied by a Skoda dealership (after being given the service booklet for the vehicle) would be of sufficient quality to minimize the possibility of catastrophic failure ?

 

Best regards.

 

 

John.

[peter3197]

VAG have since moved on to use spur gear type oil pumps.

I wonder why? 

[mattvrestate]

Hello Matt.

I note that you actually work for the Volkswagen Audi group

I've been very interested in the 'good quality oil' debate - the inference being that (somehow) the problem was caused by poor servicing.

Would you think the oil supplied by a Skoda dealership (after being given the service booklet for the vehicle) would be of sufficient quality to minimize the possibility of catastrophic failure ?

Best regards.

John.

if its been serviced by Skoda since new then the Oil should have been correct. Its like any chain over time they can stretch. It has been known to be a problem with a small number of 1.4tdis but it is not a common problem or deemed fit for a recall. B7 Audi A4s and early 3C Passats had a similar problem with the 2.0 tdi's with both chain + spur gear type oil pumps and that was common enough to warrant a recall. Vauxhall has had alot of problems with timing chains on there petrols.. BMW 3 + 5 series also had alot of issues with stretching + rattling chains.. its not like VAG are the only ones with chain related issues.. unless you have a warranty then unfortunately you cant just assume the manufacturer will pay for any failures your car has.

[GreelineJon]

Thanks for the information Matt.

 

The chain (driving the contra-rotating balance shaft and the the oil pump) is not serviceable - hence my understanding is that it is a 'lifetime of Engine' component.

The design of the component should (IMHO) take this into account. Fatigue cycles; out of balance forces; pulsating loads and stretching of the chain should all have been factored into the design calculations for this system.

 

If this is the case then it would seem that either:

 

a) The VAG designer got his sums wrong or

I'm very unlucky or

c) The VAG designer calculations assumed a 'lifetime of Engine' of around 95,000 miles.

 

I note also that you say it is a known problem with a 'small number' of TDI's; and is deemed 'not fit for recall'.

Bad luck on the 'small number of owners' that purchased these vehicles - wouldn't you say ?

 

Best regards.

 

John.

[vamos1978]

Would like to thrown in my opinion - VW really screwed up with this design - IMHO (for what its worth) a chain can't handle the extreme changes in load placed on it during the rotation through the ignition cycle; esp with a 3 cylinder engine which is inherently unbalanced.

Eventually if the chain is undersized metal fatigue will cause it to fail.

Just this week had a noisy alternator pulley changed on my passat - the noise on idle being caused by the sprang clutch on the alternator pulley locking solid. I never considered why a one way clutch was used on the alternator - but of course googling for the answer provided the info that the speed of the engine rotation is not constant when going through the compression cycle - hence to limit the tension change on the belt this clutch effectively decouples the alternator from the changes in speed of the engine.

The chain arrangement on this engine has no let up in tension changes and hence needs to be carefully spec'd to prevent early failure. 

 

As far as I'm concerned VOSA should be contacted as a catastrophic of an engine with no pre warning is a disaster waiting to happen.

[mattvrestate]

Why VOSA? Whats the engine got to do with an MOT bar emmisions?

[vamos1978]

www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/onlineservices/vehicledefects.htm

 

Matt - don't you work for skoda ?

[mattvrestate]

www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/onlineservices/vehicledefects.htm

Matt - don't you work for skoda ?

Never worked at Skoda. Have worked at Audi + Volkswagen.

Just because a car breaks doesnt mean it has a serious underlying defect lol.

have a browse of the internet at Vauxhall 1.7 diesels + 1.4/ 1.6 petrols. Peugeot diesels (HDI) + BMW 1.6 petrols along with a MASSIVE list of other cars that have serious common faults causing the engines to completely die so common you will find info on them all over google. NONE of them have recalls + none of them are covered by any extended free goodwill etc once out of warranty.

Put it this way in 10 years of working at a VW main dealer iv not seen 1 1.4tdi oil pump chain failure. Bearing in mind the 1.4tdi hasnt changed since it was 1st put in a 6n2 polo + Audi A2 in 1999 to the last mk2 fabia's in 2009/2010. The reason is it was/ is one of the most reliable diesels ever made! I have seen 2 on ebay as spares or repairs saying oil pump chain has failed + 2 on forums with the same fault (both in this thread). I have owned 3 polos with this engine.. all of them reaching 130k+ before i sold them (crashed 1.. sold 2)

People make me laugh expecting manufacturers to pay for repairs well after warrantys have expired. You buy a used car without a warranty + you take a risk.

you could have a bought a lot of other cars with more problems than the 1.4tdi mk1 fabia. You have just been unlucky.. VOSA will not be interested lol !

[PoloGaz]

I was going to post a new thread about this but this thread seems to have it covered pretty well

 

There are two 1.4 TDIs in my family. My dad's just bought a mk2 fabia hatch with the 80bhp engine on the strength of my brother's 75bhp mk1 estate.

 

I was not aware of this fault until today!

 

My brother's car's on 105K. It's due a cambelt (age rather than mileage) and I'm thinking this needs doing as preventative maintenance?

 

Had a look and there is a repair kit made by febi for around £110. They even offer a replacement crankshaft drive if necessary. It makes the most sense to me to replace the lot.

 

info on the kit

http://www.techtips.ie/febi/vag-14-tdi-balancer-shafts.pdf

 

found someone selling the kit on ebay

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/400786575946?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&fromMakeTrack=true

 

Even doing it myself it's going to cost about £250

 

The kit doesn't appear to come with any gaskets, yet you need to remove the pump and (I assume) the cranshaft end plate. Can anyone list the required gaskets?

The kit also doesn't appear to come with any replacement bolts. From a guide to the replacement that I've read. Replacing the bolts is essential as some are stretch

 

For reference, the guide is here; http://www.clubpolo.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=229235 No pics though

 

 

Anyone got any tips/advice?

 

Thanks

 

Gaz

Edited 30 July, 2015 by PoloGaz

[ebenezer]

the engine on my fabia pd 80 was on the noisy side!....i put this down to the chain driven counterweight, sold car as not my cup of tea!

gone back to trusty 1900 pd.

[sipovka]

I currently have a skoda fabia stripped with an oil pump chain problem, it snapped and lodged itself in the crankshaft sprocket, this sprocket then welded itself to the cranckshaft, through this site I have been able to locate a part number, Skoda / VW do not supply this without the crankshaft.

[Baz60]

Just got my Roomster 1.4tdi (80) BNV back with a new short engine because of oil pump chain snapping. It has got to be the chain breaking first there was no lack of oil in the engine. 08 plate done 99,600 miles and services as per book. Pleased with the car but a big sting in the tail. It seems to me this is a weakness.

With a new short engine do I have to change the engine number on the log book and if so where is the engine number on the block? Guidance would be much appreciated. Baz60

[cherry evo]

Recently bought a mint Fabia 1.4 tdi BNV Sport, 49k miles, one really careful owner, full service history. Removed the engine yesterday and removed the sump - oil pump chain broken & wrapped around the crank sprocket (which seems to be out of shape & very loose). Happened on the motorway, "there was a popping noise then the oil light came on so I coasted to the hard shoulder". Crank is very tight, slackened off the main bearing caps and no difference.... Got to borrow a 12 point bi-hex impact socket for the belt pulley so I can see whats going on there...... More info to follow......

 

Will be rebuilding the engine with new parts where needed, is there any upgrade for the chain? I.e., can it be converted to gear drive like the 4 cylinder engines? Chain driven balancer shaft, unbelievably poor design.....