I've been watching this thread with intrest as my ESP light came on last week in my Touran.

VW would not replace mine unless I stumped up £1882 for the pleasure. The 1st question I was asked was " Does it have a full VW service history". Well it doesn't because it came from my Skoda dealer

Doing some reserarch I found out how big this problem was across the VAG range fitted with the ATE Teves unit. It's huge !!!!

Whilst trawling through all the problems and cures I found my solution not 7 miles from where I live

Send your unit here http://www.ecutesting.com/

I popped round with mine in my hand and it was turned around in less than 24 hours (3-4 days if you post it to them). 2 year guarantee and was told by the good lady " It will never fail again".

The postman came whilst I was there with two sackfulls of little boxes all wrapped up for repair, turns out they get 50 per day The reception side desk was 15 feet long full of the things to be posted back out.... Amazing.....

Spend your money at VW/Skoda/Audi/Seat if you want but 30k miles later watch for the ESP light again.

It's not hard to take your own unit off, harder is bleeding the brakes and clutch afterwards. I took mine to my very friendly independant who removed my ABS pump, re-fitted the reprogrammed unit and did the fluid change for £160. The clutch has never worked so well and the brakes have never-ever been so sharp, so much for main dealer so-called servicing.

Thanks that is what I am currently looking into. I'm surprised nobody else has done this though and that plenty of folk are happy to stump up £600-750 after a 50% goodwill gesture from skoda.

I used to work in the motor trade and believe me when I say there are more SCC cases (or threats thereof) than you might think. Typically most don't get to a court case because the complainant gets a settlement, usually with a condition to keep quiet. SOGA legislation is actually pretty robust and there are plenty of the clued-up professional classes who make use of it. Most large companies will stall and bluff as long as they can. Remember that SUK 'customer services' is an oxymoron - they are there to service the interests of the company and dealer network, not the customer.

There is plenty of information and forms on the web regarding SCC (moneyclaim online), SOGA and how to draft a LBA. Most important thing is to keep records and put things in writing, sent Special Delivery.

Edited 9 September, 201015 yr by Hauptmann

Looking at the useful link from marcusfordus it would seem the standard charge for an ECU skoda repair from these people is £350 - http://www.ecutesting.com/seat_toledo___leon___skoda_oct.html

Looks to be a very good deal considering the dealer charges (even if you get a 50% goodwill discount) - but at the same time knowing that this service is available elsewhere could strengthen yoir bargaining hand in terms of wresting a discount from the dealer to get the business themselves...

Looking at the useful link from marcusfordus it would seem the standard charge for an ECU skoda repair from these people is £350 - http://www.ecutesting.com/seat_toledo___leon___skoda_oct.html

Looks to be a very good deal considering the dealer charges (even if you get a 50% goodwill discount) - but at the same time knowing that this service is available elsewhere could strengthen yoir bargaining hand in terms of wresting a discount from the dealer to get the business themselves...

ECU Testing is a good option but remember their £350 is only for fixing the unit. You still have to pay for taking the unit off the vehicle and then installing the new one. In between the car is going nowhere. hence the higher costs quoted by others,

People are being far too reasonable with VAG/Skoda and letting them off the hook by accepting minimum "contributions". Skoda's "contributions" are also usually a whole lot worse than VW's for this problem, especially Audi's. Sue them via the Small Claims Court - as Hauptmann says they cannot afford to lose one of these cases because the problem is endemic. They want to avoid a recall and are presently sheltering behind the defence that the ABS continues to work (as are VOSA). However this defence might become problematical for VAG when the EU regs mandating ESP come into statutory force in the near future.

I am also continually gobsmacked by people reporting on this website that dealers are "not aware of the problem". As another poster says ECU Testing appear to be getting shed loads of these each week. VAG dealers are serving up their customers with a load of pony. Honest John (and others) have no made secret of the fact that cars fitted with a Teeves60 units (and it is just not a VAG problem) are worth £1,500 less on p/ex to a dealer in order to cover themselves for the inevitable blow up.

Edited 9 September, 201015 yr by Minimoke

As I understand it the Teves units can fail because of the ECU or "mechanically". So this might impact on the quoted cost of any repair. As well as companies offering to fix the ECU i saw a few that are offering an aditional mechanical fix. Our local independant uses this type of service and therefore the cost of repair can vary, and depends on the engineers assessment and the results of the VAS/VCDS scan.

I was offered a decent goodwill gesture from SUK with a 2 year parts and labour guarantee. Before saying yes I asked around and found there was little in it for me.

If I payed a few quid more I got a new unit and a 2 year guarantee. Or I saved a few quid and got a repaired unit and a 1 year parts only guarantee. Oh and having the car off the road for an extra 3-4 days wasn't a real option for me at this time anyway.

If I've still got the motor in 2 years time and it fails again, I'll look at the latter option then!

Edited 9 September, 201015 yr by uncle bulgaria

Mine was 4 months out of warranty I paid 625 they paid rest

IMHO £625 would have more than covered the base cost for the part and fitting, so I'd say that wasn't a great deal.

IMHO £625 would have more than covered the base cost for the part and fitting, so I'd say that wasn't a great deal.

Absolutely correct. For SUK its a case of making no goodwill contribution - and a thumping big profit, or 50% contribution and a small profit. Either way they are profiting from selling a vehicle with a major latent defect. I also find the 'must have Skoda service history' to leave a nasty taste. The part which fails is not servicable - its is simply a way of 'punishing' customers who have had their car serviced elsewhere.

I am contually staggered that Skoda dealers are (apparently) rated highly and make 'happy drivers'. I am very happy with my vRS, the only thing that puts me off buying another when the time comes is the dealers!

Absolutely correct. For SUK its a case of making no goodwill contribution - and a thumping big profit, or 50% contribution and a small profit. Either way they are profiting from selling a vehicle with a major latent defect. I also find the 'must have Skoda service history' to leave a nasty taste. The part which fails is not servicable - its is simply a way of 'punishing' customers who have had their car serviced elsewhere.

I am contually staggered that Skoda dealers are (apparently) rated highly and make 'happy drivers'. I am very happy with my vRS, the only thing that puts me off buying another when the time comes is the dealers!

I'm also surprised on the dealers. There are a limited number of really good ones out there, but in my experience the rest are often not just bad, but dire.

IMHO £625 would have more than covered the base cost for the part and fitting, so I'd say that wasn't a great deal.

See post 150

I said earlier in the thread how many teves units have been produced and fitted [probably millions] skoda vw bmw hyundai renault citroen volvo seat ,etc etc,how many have failed ,in total worldwide,how many have failed on skoda ,im still in touch with the volvo owners club and theres no reports on failures there my mates got a 1 series bmw and theres no failures that he knows of on bmwoc ,i know someone who works for skf bolton hes never heared of any failures ,isnt this a case of hype ,out of proportion ,

i have just had my octavia elegance diagnosed with total abs failure. suk will not accept its a fault. with no goodwill gester i am faced with a bill of £1500 to rectify fault. so glad to see its actually a known issue, i dont know how to proceed but leaning more to watchdog !!

For goodness sake, don't mess about. The dealer and SUK are taking the Mickey on this issue. This is a clear-cut case of a product being insufficiently durable under Sale of Goods Act. Remember, your warranty is a form of contract with the manufacturer and IN ADDITION to your Statutory Rights. Write a Letter Before Action and send it to the supplying dealer via Special Delivery. Quote SOGA and give them 10 working days to respond with offer to repair - with threat of SCC summons if you don't hear from them. And carry the threat through. The SCC Summons does not initially require any evidence or data, just an outline of the problem. Their position is indefensible and I'm sure they would back down. The last thing SUK want is successful SCC actions against them on this problem!

Absolutely agree 100% - none of these cases will ever go to court as they won't want to risk setting a legal precedent given the endemic nature of the problem. So long as they can charge £1500 a go, or offer a good will payment and still break even they are losing nothing, and if anything profiting from a widespread fault. Slap them with a SCC summons and they'll be fixing the car free of charge in a flash.

i, i dont know how to proceed but leaning more to watchdog !!

funny you should mention that---- they started a new series last night and were asking for cases, I guess like politicians they only get started when numbers are sufficient, (MP's consider 16 letters a lot I believe) Any way it's www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog go to "your story", I haven't had a problem yet so it's up to YOU guys ---------go get 'em :-) p.s. I have written to Auto express TWICE

Direct link to the reporting section for watchdog is:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/watchdog/gotastory/

Sent my story off to Watchdog - now we need as many people as possible to do the same!

pmc

Sent my story off to Watchdog - now we need as many people as possible to do the same!

pmc

As stated in post 150 did the same 2 months ago I wouldn't hold my breath

I don't know if you get all the Skoda, Seat and similar lot to say something, then I think it would happen

I think there is a good story for Watchdog here.

The same ATE (Continental Teves) unit is failing in numerous vehicles. Not just VAG cars, but BMW (1 and 3 series), Ford Focus and C-Max, numerous Volvo (30, 40, 50, 70), Mazda 3 etc. In all cases the bill to fix is c.£1k plus fitting!

As stated in post 150 did the same 2 months ago I wouldn't hold my breath

I've found it to be a good 'threat'. CC the Watchdog email address into emails to SUK.

I suppose SUK could also be under orders by VAG not to give in on these as it could cascade through the whole group.

Edited 13 September, 201015 yr by Aspman

If they don't give in see them in court.

Then they will be forced to give in by a court and once legal precedent has been set, it would be very hard for them to argue otherwise.

I have started a separate thread in order to try to list those people affected on the forum so that I can prove to Skoda (or rather to the small claims court) that this is no one-off failure. Please could all those affected add themselves to the list?

http://briskoda.net/forums/topic/174385-esp-abs-g201-failure-teves-mk60-list/

Thanks!

Edited 16 September, 201015 yr by scouter2

Will do

Will do

Thanks!

Have also sent my details to watchdog using the link given a few posts ago, maybe if enough people do it...

Stuzo this is about getting VAG (and others) to admit the issue and live up to the promises they made privately some time back, it had to be done over the MK4 gearbox that grenaded, the coil packs, the compressors on the MKI Octy and god knows how many other issues over the years (Toyota anyone ?), it's got nothing to do with the political stance a paper takes and as someone who doesn't read the paper but does read HJ online I actually find such a sweeping generalization misguided and immature. I don't read the Mail nor am I a particular fan of any political party, I find them almost without exception to be utterly useless and simply in it for what they can get.

Now consider for a moment it's the middle of winter, you go out to your car and start the engine, the little light with the car and skid marks stays on, you go to the dealer and pay £65 to have them confirm what you already know and have been unofficially told. It's a 1-1.5k repair bill as you are either just out of warranty or have some independent service history or were slightly late on the schedule at some point (or in my case the dealer who sold the car didn't update the last two services on DIS or register the sale of the car so you are asked to prove ownership!). But wait! VW assured us all that they'd support a 100% contribution on this part if it failed out of warranty and that even cars that were indy serviced would be dealt with sympathetically. The part in question is integrated to your ABS unit and despite the part being cheap when it used to be separated from the PCB it requires a full new ABS unit. Your dealer will give you sweet FA apart from lip service and apologies. You then start to find that the dealership stop returning your calls/letters and VAG UK despite being initially apologetic when you supply them SIX other examples of cars you know have had the same issue refuse to help. You're left with forking out the cash (in my case the week before xmas, 18 month old daughter, domestic holiday booked for Feb as it'll be the first and last time you can do so as a family of three as your other half is due to delivery a son in May, you either take out debt that in the current financial climate will be expensive or hit your savings, the penalty for withdrawal etc being a total loss of bonus rate on investment and re-valuing at SVR saving rate for the duration of the ISA). Suddenly the money you've worked hard to earn and save is now going to end up in the pockets of the very people who sold you the car in the first place knowing it was almost guaranteed to have the issue within the next 12-18 months and because they couldn't be bothered to update the computer system you were never given the option of taking extended warranty. The best bit is still to come, they will probably fit the same unit with the same problem that will suffer the same issue in 3-5 years. The third option (if you can call it that) is to let your other half and daughter drive round with the ABS running on the backup system and no TC.

To give you some of the background on this story HJ had been told and published twice stating he had been assured VAG were offering 100% parts and 50% labor on this issue last year, it turns out they were economical with the truth, if you don't have pristine MDSH including BF change (though it's been proved this is totally useless in preventing the issue) then you get nothing (local dealer has an 04 Golf in with 9k on the clock and VW are offering ZERO contribution as it's got an indy history. If the car's up to 4 years old with full MDSH it gets 100% parts 50% parts, if it's 4-5 it gets 35/35 if it's 5+ it's 0/0 irrespective, previously they'd stated less than full MDSH would be dealt with sympathetically, that consists of nicely asking you for 1k as opposed to demanding it apparently He was good enough to raise this with VW PR who ignored it and ignored it, so I decided to take the dealer to small claims court (my business relationship was with them not VAG unfortunately), i'm guessing he has received so many complaints and plea's for help after VW misrepresented the 'good will' they were offering he's decided to escalate it publicly. Why should you have to pay 1-1.5k and I pay 300 to have the same fault fixed or for that matter someone else get it done for free on similar age cars especially on a non servicable part specifically designed to last the lifetime of the car ?

The TEVES MK60 has issues, the quality of assembly is sub standard according to someone who's had one independently inspected and the failure rate is climbing, VW know this and switched supplier leading to long wait times last year. The actual failure is the G201 sensor which on older floor plan's was a separate unit and considerably cheaper to replace (tens of pounds as opposed to getting close to 1.5k however VW has reduced the fitted price to under 1k now so i'm told). Sorry if you don't like the prospect of your car being devalued but like the coil packs or the condenser units on the MKI it needs dealing with. I was more than grateful for the help and advice HJ was able to provide and i'm glad that this was published, some poor woman had apparently paid the full whack earlier in the week according to the dealer when I asked about good will 'so they didn't think any contribution was likely'. That changed dramatically when they were about to go to Small Claims Court but how many people push it that far or like yourself simply know little/nothing about the issue ?

Incidentally someone even started a FB group dedicated to this issue if you're that way inclined.

If anyone wants any more specific details i'm happy to provide them with anything I can to help, we have two VAG cars that are almost identical (Golf and Octy 2) so you can imagine how much I want to see this resolved for everyone, our Golf suffered last year, if the same is true of the Octy it's due the end of this year/early next (i've not checked the ABS unit type yet)

Hi, I'm interested in getting more details of successful ways of threatening / going to the Small Claims Court over the ABS Module and pump failure on my Audi A3. After speaking to Trading Standards, I wrote to my local dealer (the seller) stating that the vehicle was 'unfit for purpose' and asking for a substantial contribution towards the £1k cost of the rectification. N.B. I had it repaired at a garage using Audi trained technicians, parts and software because the dealer said that he could not deal with it for about a week. That letter has been rejected because the work was carried out elsewhere. I now intend to write a 'Letter before Action' as I am very annoyed having not only been caught out by this issue but also by the A/C compressor failure, which cost me about £600.

Thanking you in anticipation.

Regards

A3peter

See post 163 for watchdog add your weight!