Towbar costs again

[Llanigraham]

Towing anything over a small camping trailer is going to make the car work harder, thereby creating more heat. I have noticed that long gentle climbs (try the A30 through Cornwall) with the caravan hooked on have caused the temp gauge to go up, especially if trying to keep the speed up. Whether the normal fans would have coped I don't know, but it is nice to see the gauge drop quickly.

I'm sure that the engineers who designed the system added the fans for a good reason, and not just for fun. Whether there could be an effect on the warranty I don't know, but I doubt it.

[frglee]

I doubt we will get a sensible answer out of Skoda.

I would think that towing preparation doesn't feature very highly in Skoda's idea of desirable selling points compared to the likes of Bi-Xenon headlights, electric seats, built-in sat nav etc; to all intents and purposes the preparation is invisible so I don't suppose they are going to make a big deal of it.

However, the topic is tow bar costs, so - can the cost of the towing preparation be justified?

Assuming that the additional wiring loom and coding ( and ignoring the bumper cut out for now ) is included in the tow bar fitting costs then, if the intention is to tow a small trailer, I don't think the cost is justified. If the intention is to tow a caravan I would have to say yes it is justified if only because of the larger cooling fan. As Graham says, the designers wouldn't specify a larger fan just for the sake of it; bearing in mind that the Yeti can tow up to 2000kg? ( according to the car configurator ) which is a fair size both in terms of weight and wind resistance

I have to say though that I tow a caravan of a similar weight to Graham's with a high mileage 12 year old Vauxhall Astra, the engine of which is somewhat less powerful than the Yeti options. Yes, the temperature gauge does creep up on long motorway gradients but it's never gone high enough for the electric cooling fan to cut in - do diesel engines run hotter than petrol?

Actually, I think I'm convincing myself here to go for the towing preparation! - it's just that darned bumper cut out :think:

Regards, Lee.

Edited 2 May, 2012 by frglee

[Llanigraham]

A point well made Lee, and as you say, it all comes down to a personal opinion. I like the thought that if it does go up then there is an extra fan to keep it under control. And yes, I find that once a diesel is up to temp it stays there longer.

I think I've only seen my climb that much whilst stuck in very slow moving traffic climbing one of the hills on the A30. Most of the time it increases only slightly. Certainly in France last August, when the temperatures were in the 90's, I don't think the gauge moved from it's normal level at all, whilst moving.

Having read some of the reports in the past of the way some dealers have (not) dealt with the cut-out I'd be a lot happier having the factory do it!

[frglee]

Having read some of the reports in the past of the way some dealers have (not) dealt with the cut-out I'd be a lot happier having the factory do it!

If I can be excused for going off topic - again!

If the intention is to have fitted a detachable towbar with 7 or 13 pin electrics then the cutout and removable panel are ideal especially if you don't want to advertise the fact that a towbar is fitted when not towing. However, it's less than ideal where a fixed flange or even a fixed swan neck tow ball is fitted for the reasons I mention above.

My 15 year old caravan has a BPW chassis, not Alko with it's built-in tow hitch stabiliser. Therefore, I have to use a fixed flange tow ball and a stabiliser bar which fits into a bracket clamped behind the tow ball. It's not always possible to use a stabiliser bar with a swan neck, Bulldog do make a bracket that clamps onto the "shank" of a swan neck but the shank has to be parallel not tapered as most are.

My ideal situation would be: factory fitted larger cooling fan, additional wiring loom ( which should save the towbar fitter from having to remove interior panelling resulting in a quicker fitting time? ) but NOT the bumper cut-out and panel though I suppose it all comes as a package.

Of course, I could always buy a brand new caravan to go with my brand new Yeti! - "Yes alright dear, now take your hands from around my throat!"

[Llanigraham]

Well they do say "new car, new van"

Even Land Rover, who do provide the complete loom for towing from the factory, still require you to remove some trim to plug it all in.

[threeshoes]

I've still got a month to go before I can put my Yeti order in but I'd thought I'd add my two pennorth to this subject.

The following is part of a reply I received from North West Towbar Centre in Stockport:

"The price for a fixed flange ball towbar is £385.00 fitted with two sockets. This is using a dedicated electrical kit and includes all coding work. It is the same price for vehicles with or without towing preparation. The module that we supply is the same as the Skoda original equipment, so it will connect directly to the connector on vehicles with preparation."

The same price without or without towing preparation! - first thoughts are don't bother with the prep but then there is the larger or extra cooling fan to consider. Presumably, if Skoda specify a larger or extra fan they must think that it is needed when towing ( a caravan at any rate). Could there be warranty issues if something goes wrong with the engine whilst towing with a Yeti that doesn't have the fan(s) fitted?

Another thing to consider is the bumper cut out. If you are going for a removable towbar and thirteen pin electrics then all well and good; but it could be a nuisance with a fixed flange towbar and twin electrics as this would normally require a smaller cut out. So, it would have to be either leave the cut out panel off and put up with quite a large hole, make a cut out in the cut out panel, or possibly the need to make an additional cut out depending on where the tow ball emerged from behind the bumper.

.

Regards, Lee

And if it's any help, here is what Towbar Express said:

Thank you for your recent enquiry via www.towbarexpress.co.uk

If you have the towbar preparation done then we can either put the dedicated wiring loom on for the additional cost of £254 or the standard universal wiring which is included in the £464.00.

There may be a slight price increase by September but it won’t be by a lot.

If there is anything further that you would like to know, please don’t hesitate to get in touch.

Regards,

Towbar Express

0800 328 0 592

So it would cost £464 with or without the Towbar Prep at the factory; if I wanted a "dedicated wiring loom" (?) it would cost another £254. This is still not a clear issue, for me at least.

Chris

[Tugy]

If you need a towbar with a flange but still want a removable type, Witter do one.

[Llanigraham]

Their pricing structure doesn't seem to make sense!

[LeeHarrison]

Towbar prep is £180.00 + the towing electrics from the retailer + towbar + fitting.

Alternatively you can have the single electrics fitted at the retailer, labour on this is longer due to the extra electrics.

One thing I'm a bit miffed about is that when adding factory prep the car has an upgraded fan, but the electrics (for UK) cannot be hitched up to a caravan, surely a caravan is heavier in general than a trailer thus a larger fan is not a neccessity and should not be worried about if retro fitting either split or single charging electrics?

With single electrics they cannot be converted to split charging, so if anyone is towing a caravan you would need to have this retro fitted.

[Llanigraham]

One thing I'm a bit miffed about is that when adding factory prep the car has an upgraded fan, but the electrics (for UK) cannot be hitched up to a caravan, surely a caravan is heavier in general than a trailer thus a larger fan is not a neccessity and should not be worried about if retro fitting either split or single charging electrics?

Not neccesarily. Someone here has posted that they sometimes tow a glider, and even a camping trailer can weigh 1000kg quite easily, plus what about those small box trailers. They have aerodynamics worse than a caravan.

With single electrics they cannot be converted to split charging, so if anyone is towing a caravan you would need to have this retro fitted.

The debate over split charging came up earlier, and it is interesting to note that generally it is only the UK market that insist on this. Many European caravans have no facility to use the system, and most car manufacturers in Europe don't include it. I don't have it and it has not caused us any problems.

According to the Yeti Accessory catalogue I have a split charge system is available for the Yeti.

[Richard1234]

I have finally ordered my Yeti via work and a leaseplan... so no dates yet :(

I eventually decided not to get tow bar prep as its just for my bike rack (I hope I dont regret it)

Here are my array of prices inc vat for a detachable westfalia to pick from once my Yeti arrives....

Chester towbars £660

£715 (£485 with prep) Tow it all

£900 (£660 prep) Motormods

£634 Towbar Express - see attached as its cheaper than the quote Chris got !!

£440 MDS

£750 ish Letchworth dealer ... not sure mate depends how long it takes to fit

£498 (but unsure about programming) Wilmond of Hitchin

So at present it looks like a few hours drive to Chester for MDS

Thank you for your recent enquiry via www.towbarexpress.co.uk

A detachable towbar with 13pin electrics fitted to your Skoda Yeti would be £414.00 including vat.

The dedicated wiring loom is £220.00 extra if you wanted it fitting.

http://www.towbarexpress.co.uk/dedicated_wiring.html

If you are going for the dedicated wiring option then we would recommend having the trailer preparation.

This includes fitting at your home or work, and we normally need 3 or 4 days notice for fitting.

If there is anything further that you would like to know, or you would like to make a booking, please don't hesitate to get in touch.

Regards,

Towbar Express

0800 328 0 592

www.towbarexpress.co.uk

[LeeHarrison]

Split charging is available on the Yeti but not with factory prep.

Can't see why there can't just be one system that does all, whether you want to pull a go kart or a winnibago (think I need spell check), it would make life so much easier - although a lot of topics would go missing from Briskoda

[threeshoes]

I have finally ordered my Yeti via work and a leaseplan... so no dates yet :(

I eventually decided not to get tow bar prep as its just for my bike rack (I hope I dont regret it)

Here are my array of prices inc vat for a detachable westfalia to pick from once my Yeti arrives....

Chester towbars £660

£715 (£485 with prep) Tow it all

£900 (£660 prep) Motormods

£634 Towbar Express - see attached as its cheaper than the quote Chris got !!

£440 MDS

£750 ish Letchworth dealer ... not sure mate depends how long it takes to fit

£498 (but unsure about programming) Wilmond of Hitchin

So at present it looks like a few hours drive to Chester for MDS

Thank you for your recent enquiry via www.towbarexpress.co.uk

A detachable towbar with 13pin electrics fitted to your Skoda Yeti would be £414.00 including vat.

The dedicated wiring loom is £220.00 extra if you wanted it fitting.

http://www.towbarexp...ted_wiring.html

If you are going for the dedicated wiring option then we would recommend having the trailer preparation.

This includes fitting at your home or work, and we normally need 3 or 4 days notice for fitting.

If there is anything further that you would like to know, or you would like to make a booking, please don't hesitate to get in touch.

Regards,

Towbar Express

0800 328 0 592

www.towbarexpress.co.uk

Hmmm, very interesting!

Thanks

Chris

[countryboy]

I have finally ordered my Yeti via work and a leaseplan... so no dates yet :(

I eventually decided not to get tow bar prep as its just for my bike rack (I hope I dont regret it)

Here are my array of prices inc vat for a detachable westfalia to pick from once my Yeti arrives....

Chester towbars £660

£715 (£485 with prep) Tow it all

£900 (£660 prep) Motormods

£634 Towbar Express - see attached as its cheaper than the quote Chris got !!

£440 MDS

£750 ish Letchworth dealer ... not sure mate depends how long it takes to fit

£498 (but unsure about programming) Wilmond of Hitchin

So at present it looks like a few hours drive to Chester for MDS

Thank you for your recent enquiry via www.towbarexpress.co.uk

A detachable towbar with 13pin electrics fitted to your Skoda Yeti would be £414.00 including vat.

The dedicated wiring loom is £220.00 extra if you wanted it fitting.

http://www.towbarexp...ted_wiring.html

If you are going for the dedicated wiring option then we would recommend having the trailer preparation.

This includes fitting at your home or work, and we normally need 3 or 4 days notice for fitting.

If there is anything further that you would like to know, or you would like to make a booking, please don't hesitate to get in touch.

Regards,

Towbar Express

0800 328 0 592

www.towbarexpress.co.uk

Why drive from Herts to Chester? If you want to pop around the M25 and down the A3 to Horndean I can recommend these people, they fitted a swan neck towbar with twin 7 pin plugs, split charging electrics and fully coded for £390 all in, in February last year on a Saturday morning. They went in there mob handed and did the whole job from driving in to driving out in less than 2 hours.

http://www.philtaylortowbars.co.uk/

Ian

[weasley]

My reply from Phil Taylor....

Thank you for your enquiry. I will firstly give you a price for the detachable towbar fitted with 13pin full function electrics. This would be £600 inc vat and fitting, and would also include the software re-coding to tell the vehicle it is towing.

That's for a detachable Westfalia fitted to a car with prep (so no bumper cutting required).

[frglee]

Split charging is available on the Yeti but not with factory prep.

Can't see why there can't just be one system that does all, whether you want to pull a go kart or a winnibago (think I need spell check), it would make life so much easier - although a lot of topics would go missing from Briskoda

Probably because it's a system that has evolved over time.

In the beginning there was the 7 pin socket to supply power to the road lights and gas to provide lighting in a caravan; then along came fridges, reversing lights and leisure batteries requiring a second 12S socket and ( in the UK ) split charging. In the meantime the Europeans sneaked in with their 13 pin socket.

There are many, many caravans and trailers, some old but still very much serviceable, that are wired for single electrics or twin electrics or 13 pin electrics.......

But yes, I agree "one size fits all" would be much easier!

Regards, Lee.

[frglee]

The debate over split charging came up earlier, and it is interesting to note that generally it is only the UK market that insist on this. Many European caravans have no facility to use the system, and most car manufacturers in Europe don't include it. I don't have it and it has not caused us any problems.

I can see the logic in a split charging system if a touring caravan is used as a touring caravan moving to a different site every day or every couple of days, possibly sites that don't have electric hook up.

The leisure battery would get some charge from the car's alternator between sites but I suspect you would have to do a fair number of miles to fully charge a leisure battery via the split charging system.

Regards, Lee.

[phil_taylor_towbars]

The split charging can be easily added to a vehicle with prep. The prep basically brings the CANbus & live feeds to the back so that live feed can be used for the fridge and battery charging.

Lee, you'll find that you will never fully charge a battery from the cars charging system, even if you drove 1000 miles it would still never fully charge it as a mains charger would.

[Llanigraham]

Ditto, the fridge. All the 12v does is keep it at a constant temperature. We've found a freezer pack or two inside is just as effective.

[g6zru]

I went through all this last year when I bought the Yeti. Before placing the order I tried to find out what EXACTLY towbar prep was. I tried the dealer, Skoda UK, Skoda UK Tech, Skoda CZ and various independent fitters. I never did get a definitive answer from anyone.

Even the independents, who quoted 2 prices for with TBprep and without, couldn't tell me. In the end I ordered the car with TBprep and got the TB fitted by the supplying dealer. I then found out they used an outside contractor! Even with this it still had to be returned to be recoded.

I had 13pin electrics with split charging and I understand that they had to fit another connection for the split charging as it was not part of TB prep.

I also tried to find out about the extra cooling but again no one provided the answer. I suspect the only way to find out for sure about the extra fan(s) would be to search the parts manual to see if cars with TB prep have any different part numbers to those without TB prep.

I am more comfortable with the knowledge that it was all Skoda aproved.

With all this confusion I was concerned that there would be problems when towing but I can report that it all works as it should. My caravan doesn't have the Trailer Control System fitted so I can't answer for that.

Fred

[speedsport]

Ok, I know it's not diesel, but my 1.8Tsi has two cooling fans, side by side behind the radiator. Now, I had a Westfalia tow bar fitted from new (Jones's of Manchester), but the car came without factory prep, so whilst it has a 13 pin socket, it only has the basic wiring fitted and (according to the majority of opinion here) is not and cannot have the recoding done to cut the reversing sensors when towing and to enable the stability program and associated displays.

Do the petrol cars (or at least the 1.8T) come with the "additional" fan as standard but the diesels don't, or do diesels come with the same two fans and one of them replaced with a higher output fan, or is there indeed a third fan fitted on diesels as part of tow bar prep?

Confused? I think we all are!!!

[Lowen]

2 fans on the 140 DSG

[rockhopper]

I thought they were just bigger fans.

[Tugy]

My 170 had no factory tow bar prep, but has two fans, and there doesn't look like there is room to have bigger diameter fans. Maybe they fit fans that turn faster, or have coarser pitch blades, to give more air flow.

[IainM1970]

Have towed many thousands of miles with my Octavia vRS 170 TDis and a few hundred now with the Yeti all without towbar prep..

Have towed over varying terrain in various weather conditions and the standard cooling fans have been just fine.

That said extra cooling can't do any harm ... so if we can finally get a definative answer as to whether towbar prep can provide split charging AND power Alko ATC then I will go for it on my next Skoda in 2014 ish!