I have the opportunity to retire early 2011 and am thinking of treating myself to a new car.

At present I have a Fabia 3 1.9TDi. I love the car, probably the best I have ever owned. Spec is good and fuel consumption fairly decent. I do around 10,000 miles per year, about two thirds of which are on the motorway. If I retire, my mileage will drop to around 5,000 miles per year, a good portion of which will be short journeys with only a small amount of motorway driving (probably no more than half if that).

Diesel would be my first choice but I am wary of the diesel particulate filter. Both the 1.6 and 1.2 Greenline are on my shopping list. My concern is that the DPF will not clean itself without me having a good unnecessary run on the motorway - this seems to defeat the object of having a diesel in the first place. A 1.2 TSi, probably the 85bhp version is also on my shopping list. The initial purchase price and resale values are not issues as I intend to keep the car for quite a while. So the questions from me are:

How often does the DPF regeneration thing kick in?

What will happen if I ignore it?

Is there any other way of making the regeneration cycle kick in without an unnecessary trip down the motorway?

So far, have DPFs proven to be reliable?

And finally, will a diesel car with a DPF be too much hassle given my anticipated usage and should I simply go for a petrol (which I don't mind at all)?

Advice from fellow Briskodians gratefully accepted. Thank you.

for you i think the petrol might be the best for you, as you really will noy do the miles but you may miss the power of the diesel,as you really liked the previous fabia diesel,i have just ordered the elegance 1.6cf tdi 1o5 bhp,hpoe i have done the right thing as i am dropping down from the new superb which is a cracking car but for me and for the misses just to big now

I own a 1.9 fabia 3 105, and after driving a 1.2 tsi I think I made the wrong choice (I do about 15k a year atm). The tsi gave me 53 mpg on the same run (granted the 1.9 gives me 64 mpg most the time but still) and the engine was so much nicer to drive. Only had it for a day, so not sure what they're like to live with but the TSI engine is so much nicer! Quieter, faster, smoother.

I can't comment on the DPF (I thought the 1.9 tdi fabia 3's had them anyway?) but If i had the choice again it'd be the tsi even though I do so many miles

When we looked at a new Furby we looked at the differance in running and keeping costs of the two. We do around 6000 miles a year and only a few will be motorway and the petrol 85 model was slightly cheaper but not by much and that was over 10 years.

In the end we chose the 85 TSI which is a cracking little car and i feel we made the right desicion on that.

Personally I would go for a petrol. For the low mileage you describe you wont get back the extra investment in a diesel.

The new petrols have plenty of power and if I was in your position i would get a petrol.

I have a greenline, not the new CR version but the PD engine. So far 10000 miles and never seen the DPF light warning of the filter getting blocked. Mine regens about every 100-130 miles. It takes about 5-10 mins and seems to clear itself whether on the motorway or A roads. I have never had to alter how I drive to allow for the DPF. You cant induce a regen when you want. That said if you are close to the mileage for a regen to start you can give it a bootful of throttle and high revs for a moment or two and this often kicks in the regen.....only if your close to when it would regen anyway. If you get the light and ignore it, the light eventually flashes (i think) and it goes in to limp home mode. After that the garage does a forced regen which basically is the car idling high with modified injection and cooking the DPF till its all toasty and burns off the soot. I hope to never have to do that. The garage will charge for this as they blame 'driving style'. They would have a hard time saying that with my mileage. There is some evidence that lots of short journeys shortens the lifespan of a DPF. This all sounds horrible i know but then everyone was casting doom and gloom over catalytic converters, all that came to nothing

The new CR engines should manage the regen even better due to how they inject the fuel. There is a lot of fear over DPF in cars. Some of it may be justified allthough a lot of problems are people owning diesels who really shouldnt. I can only say mine has never been a problem so far. ALL new Fabia diesels have a DPF........

I love my Diesel, but if i suddenly did many less miles I would sell it and get a 1.2 TSI............or a shiny new motorbike.

Edited 22 September, 201015 yr by raisbeck

I changed from a 1.4 TDI 3 to a 1.2 TSI SE estate.

The little diesel was an engine with a bit of character but you were also constantly reminded it was there, I know the 1.9 tdi is smoother having had 2 VWs with that engine. Have also had courtesy cars with the new CR and it is a really smooth engine.

Having been a convert to diesel 10 years ago I wanted to get another one but the numbers just didn't stack up. The 1.2 TSI is a great engine and it is so much more comfortable to drive over longer distances.

One thing I would recommend you consider for your retiral is an estate.

Only a little longer but it severly improves the practicality of the car. The boot is massive, our other car is a B6 passat estate and it now rarely gets used at weekends as the family car because the estate has all the space we need. That was not the case when we had the hatch.

If you'll only be doing 5k miles a year, get the TSI. Getting a diesel for such low mileage is a waste IMHO.

I own a 1.9 fabia 3 105, and after driving a 1.2 tsi I think I made the wrong choice (I do about 15k a year atm). The tsi gave me 53 mpg on the same run (granted the 1.9 gives me 64 mpg most the time but still) and the engine was so much nicer to drive. Only had it for a day, so not sure what they're like to live with but the TSI engine is so much nicer! Quieter, faster, smoother.

I can't comment on the DPF (I thought the 1.9 tdi fabia 3's had them anyway?) but If i had the choice again it'd be the tsi even though I do so many miles

Having ordered a TDI CR 105, that wasn't what I wanted to hear. Bloody hell :(

PERSONALLY, i THINK NEITHER CHOICE WILL BE WRONG!

The diesel will be fine if you get up to and over around 40mph regularly for around 10 to 15 mins... Easily achievable for most drivers!

The petrol will be cheaper and quieter to drive at lower speed but will need more gearwork!

The diesel may be a little heavier on the steering but not too much. get yourself a test drive in BOTH models and check the fuel stats for town driving as the diesel may loose out but i think not. It will kill the petrol on the motorways, though!

Gotta largely agree with mrgf. There is no actual wrong car, it is very much down to personal choice as both the petrol and diesel Skoda Fabia's are so good.

I'm a diesel nut as many of you may already know, but even I liked the TSI engines when I drove them. However, for me, neither of the TSI's had the wonderful driving experience that you get from a good diesel...that surge of huge diesel power, and that somewhat smug satisfaction of knowing you are saving the planet by using much less fuel, producing less CO2 every time you take your car out etc etc. Don't get me wrong, the TSI's are probably one of the best small petrols on the market, but just not for me.

The driving experience of the 1.6cr engines is very good even compared to the TSI's. If you compare the TSI's to the older PD 1.9 and 1.4 engines, there is no comparison. The TSI engines are superior in refinement. But if the TSI's are compared to the 1.6cr engines...it's a different story I found. The CR's are quiet, refined, smooth, and on the power front, hugely more powerful. And I've driven them all now. So refinement shouldn't be a real factor.

Regarding cost...even in your case a diesel won't cost you any more to buy or run if you do the sums over the 10 years you are going to keep it. In fact you will still be better off.

DPF's are proving reliable and you will not get any trouble with one if you follow the instructions in the handbook.

Let us know what you decide. If it's petrol I won't hate you, I promise!

I love my Diesel, but if i suddenly did many less miles I would sell it and get a 1.2 TSI............or a shiny new motorbike.

Raisbeck, are you going to the motorcycle show at the NEC this year?

Sorry to OP for bumping the post a bit!

I came to the same conclusion about the current crop of diesels. I loved mine, I've had three for the last 8 years, 2 VW's and a Skoda, but the current price of diesel against the price of petrol meant I had to do the sums over buying a new car.

For the mileage I do in a private car it needed to get 45 mpg to equal what the diesel did.

Skoda do a rather nippy Fabia with all the extras I required without spending on a base model and speccing it up. The trouble is everyone else seems to have thought the same and bought the UK stock of vRS's .

Yeti's worked out too expensive, and didn't really offer more than the Fabia, both 4 door and similar cabin space .

Having ordered a TDI CR 105, that wasn't what I wanted to hear. Bloody hell :(

dont worry ive ordered the same as you elegance?

Hi

With the mileage you do at the moment you need the petrol car, following retirement even more so!

I have driven the 105TSi and that is what I would recommend to you as it has a good bit of torque at low revs similar to the diesel. I was sorely tempted to go for the 1.2 TSi DSG but eventually went for the diesel because of the miles I cover.

I got my car on 2nd September and I believe it has done 2 regens already, the first at around 900 mile the second at 1700. When this happens the car ticks over at 1000rpm and is a bit lumpy. No warning lights show to indicate what is happening, however the cooling fan runs and the engine is very hot!

I too am to retire but not for another 2 yr 7 months, when I do my mileage will drop dramatically and I think I may then be troubled with DPF regen problems. The car will probably have around 75K on it then.

One other point, whilst the 1.6TDi Cr is the quietest diesel engine I have heard, it is not as economical as it should be. I ran to London on Tuesday at 60MPH and got 65 MPG on the way back at 70MPH I got 61. I expected more so am a little disappointed.

I think if you go for the diesel with your mileage you could be storing up problems.

I should also add I went for the SEAT Ibiza as the delivery time on the Skoda was silly

For small cars like the Fabia I personally prefer petrol engines, whereas larger cars it tends to be diesel. Just let my wife's Corsa CDTI 90 go in P/X for a Fabia TSI 85; the only reason we had opted for the CDTI was the poor performance of Vauxhall's alternative small petrol units. The new Fabia TSI however is a fantastic little motor, so even though I've not tried the new 1.6TDI my vote would still be the petrol.

Oh so far had no concerns with the DPF on our Yeti, mind it's mainly used for rural driving and has covered almost 10,000 miles in 11 months. Regard regens I've probably been aware of about 5 in that time but there may have been more.

Regards,

TP

I had the same problem when deciding which Fabia estate to buy, and my annual mileage is around 10,000.

I created a spreadsheet to look at the total estimated running costs between the TSI and Greenline II and for me it indicated the Greenline II was the best option - I like diesel engines and the low CO2 and possibly better resale at the end.

The estimated difference over 3 and 6 years was the Greenline II.was £99 and £1886 cheaper to run - very close £33- 200ish per year dif.

I used book MPG -10%, fuel at an average of 3 year 122.9, 6 Year 134.9 for diesel and - 2p per litre for Petrol, 51% urban and 49% combined and constant resale value between models.

Plug in your 5000 miles and split the mileage 90% town and over three years the TSI wins by £412, 6 years and the Greenline II wins by £757 and 10 years (158.9 a litre average) the Greenline is £2729 cheaper to run.

As you can see the difference in running costs between the petrol and the most economical diesel works out to be between £100 to £200 per year -it is very much the same with the 1.4 Diesel and the 1.2 TSI but much closer

With so little in it I would test drive both the diesel and petrol of your choice and see which you like the best or if the DPF is of great concern then get the TSI.

I had the same problem when deciding which Fabia estate to buy, and my annual mileage is around 10,000.

I created a spreadsheet to look at the total estimated running costs between the TSI and Greenline II and for me it indicated the Greenline II was the best option - I like diesel engines and the low CO2 and possibly better resale at the end.

The estimated difference over 3 and 6 years was the Greenline II.was £99 and £1886 cheaper to run - very close £33- 200ish per year dif.

I used book MPG -10%, fuel at an average of 3 year 122.9, 6 Year 134.9 for diesel and - 2p per litre for Petrol, 51% urban and 49% combined and constant resale value between models.

Plug in your 5000 miles and split the mileage 90% town and over three years the TSI wins by £412, 6 years and the Greenline II wins by £757 and 10 years (158.9 a litre average) the Greenline is £2729 cheaper to run.

As you can see the difference in running costs between the petrol and the most economical diesel works out to be between £100 to £200 per year -it is very much the same with the 1.4 Diesel and the 1.2 TSI but much closer

With so little in it I would test drive both the diesel and petrol of your choice and see which you like the best or if the DPF is of great concern then get the TSI.

Great research Dempsek.

Would you be willing to make your spreadsheet available to briskoda members who are too lazy to set up the sheet for themselves?

Thank you for this advice.

Whilst full life costs are important, my dilema is whether a diesel car with a DPF is a mistake, given my expected low annual mileage and short journeys. If the DPF was not fitted, diesel wins hands down for me. But unfortunately it is and I am beginning to feel that it will be more trouble than it is worth.

Great research Dempsek.

Would you be willing to make your spreadsheet available to briskoda members who are too lazy to set up the sheet for themselves?

Matty, I will have a look at putting one together. The spreadsheet I used is a bit thrown together and unplanned.

The spreadsheet would have to come with a big disclaimer of use at you own risk and may not be totally accurate.

Thank you for this advice.

Whilst full life costs are important, my dilema is whether a diesel car with a DPF is a mistake, given my expected low annual mileage and short journeys. If the DPF was not fitted, diesel wins hands down for me. But unfortunately it is and I am beginning to feel that it will be more trouble than it is worth.

The new Euro emissions standard 5/6 means all new diesel cars will have a DPF - see this article http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php.

it says " The Euro 5/6 implementing legislation introduces a new PM mass emission measurement method (similar to the US 2007 procedure) developed by the UN/ECE Particulate Measurement Programme (PMP) and adjusts the PM mass emission limits to account for differences in results using the old and the new method. The Euro 5/6 legislation also introduces a particle number emission limit (PMP method), in addition to the mass-based limits. At the time of adoption of the Euro 5/6 regulation, its mass-based PM emission limits could only be met by closed particulate filters. Number-based PM limits were adopted to prevent the possibility that in the future open filters are developed that meet the PM mass limit but enable a high number of ultra fine particles to pass." now I understand this to mean all diesel cars will have to have a DPF filter.

Not sure but I think the current Greenline has a DPF filter and mrgf has one as a driving school car?

The new Euro emissions standard 5/6 means all new diesel cars will have a DPF - see this article http://www.dieselnet.com/standards/eu/ld.php.

it says " The Euro 5/6 implementing legislation introduces a new PM mass emission measurement method (similar to the US 2007 procedure) developed by the UN/ECE Particulate Measurement Programme (PMP) and adjusts the PM mass emission limits to account for differences in results using the old and the new method. The Euro 5/6 legislation also introduces a particle number emission limit (PMP method), in addition to the mass-based limits. At the time of adoption of the Euro 5/6 regulation, its mass-based PM emission limits could only be met by closed particulate filters. Number-based PM limits were adopted to prevent the possibility that in the future open filters are developed that meet the PM mass limit but enable a high number of ultra fine particles to pass." now I understand this to mean all diesel cars will have to have a DPF filter.

Not sure but I think the current Greenline has a DPF filter and mrgf has one as a driving school car?

Yes the current greenline has a dpf (i own one). So far 11000 miles and no dpf problems. Never even see the warning light except when you see it flash briefly as the ignition is turned on. The new CR engine will manage the DPF even better than the PD engine IMO as it can inject as much fuel whenever it likes for a good regen.People report effective regens even doing town runs.......

I cant believe Skoda would sell a car that would potentially bite them on the rear a few years down the line with warranty claims for DPF. I must add that I do lots of miles on fast roads so I am less likely to have problems anyway.