Fair point. I drove a 110bhp version of this engine in a Mini Cooper and it was a lot of fun and sufficiently powerful. It also had none of the torque steer I experienced when driving a turbocharged 1.6 Cooper S.

My wife's remapped Fiesta 1.6Tdi went well, but did need some revs. It couldn't lug in higher gears at lower revs, however, this is a principal difference between PD and CR engines. It was much quieter though and deceptively fast when wound up.

I'm actually considering test driving a 1.6Tdi Passat to see how well it performs.

Driving in excess of 30,000 miles a year and having to pay for commuting/private mileage there are significant savings in opting for the 1.6Tdi, notably company car tax.

I suppose I should make the most of my PD Superb in the remaining 2 years 4 months before it is due for replacement. Mileage currently standing at 55,600.

Those engines are fine for Astra and downward sized car's, but a Superb, it just ain't happening, it'll end up like a Q6600 processor overclocked to run at 4ghz.

Go to www.phtm.co.uk and read this months mag, on page 9 you will see the add for the 1.6 cr they are available

Having both a Golf MK 6 1.6 TDI and an Octavia 2010 1.9TDI ( last of this engine) I feel I can comment on both engines with some degree of experience. The 1.6 TDI CR is smooth, quiet and accelerates reasonably once the revs exceed about 1800 rpm . It is not particulary economical ( best I can get on motorway trip is about 54-56 MPG driven very sedately ). It's quite easy to stall at slow speed due to the low speed torque. The Octavia on the other hand is the complete opposite - is noisy ( especially at low speed) accelerates quite quickly with the minm of throttle from low speed and is economical (60 mpg on motorway driven fairly sedately) and you'd have to be real clumsy driver to stall it . The economy difference is more marked in urban traffic as the Golf has to be "driven" to keep up with traffic but the Octavia just "lopes" along with minm. effort.

It's a great shame we can't have the best of both engines but on balance I prefer the Octavia . O.K. so it's a little noisier at slow speed but once up to a reasonable cruising speed there's not a lot in it . The low speed torque of the 1.9 TDI engine is a joy - you can trickle along in 5th gear at 1200 rpm on the level and this makes a big difference in fuel consumption. The engine is not as smooth as the 1.6 TDI but if the revs are kept fairly low ( below 2,500 rpm) its not a problem.

I'm sure each person will have a different view on these engines depending on what their preferences are but I prefer to drive the Octavia 1.9 PD TDI.

I'm driving an Octavia 1.9 TDI PD at the moment with about 7k on the clock. It's a hire car to keep me going until i take delivery of my Superb.

I've got to say I hate the engine. I've never driven a noisier, more tractor-like diesel... it's one of those engines that petrol lovers scoff at, and for good reason.

So far this year i've had a 59 plate Passat 2.0 TDI with 110bhp (common rail i believe)... it was very quiet, and smooth as you like, but still had plenty of torque available when you needed it. It wasn't the fastest to 60 but i wasn't fussed. Then i had a 59 Mondeo Titianium 2.0 TDI with around 162bhp (also common rail i think). Again it was quiet and smooth, with noticeably more pulling power, but it was very unresponsive. You had to give it a good second or so to react to you putting the pedal to the floor. I've also driven the Ford S-Max with a similar TDI engine and it was very similar - i think this is one of the traits of Ford's turbo diesel engines. They also seem to drink fuel.

I finally onto my current car, the Octavia 1.9 TDI PD, with i think 105bhp... and for me, it's the worst engine of the lot. You have to rev the hell out of it just to get it moving, and as i said before, it makes an absolute RACKET. Even when it's just plodding along at 30mph, the car vibrates far too much and it all feels very uncivilised. I also thought the Octavia is the lightest car out of these 3? Maybe someone can tell me whether or not that's true?

I test drove a Superb 170CR before placing my order. The difference between that engine and the one in my Octavia is crazy... it is so much more refined, calm, subtle... yet the power is there throughout the rev range whenever it's needed. I took it for a long drive up and down the A38 near where i lived, down a section of the M1, then back through some suberbs of Notts before heading down a few country roads. I can't WAIT to get my hands on it!

Ok so it's obviously going to be better than the 1.9PD. But based on my experience in this Octavia, i'd never want to own a PD engine. Common Rail all the way.

My 2.0 PD140 DSG Auto Superb2 is very quiet, and its hard to tell the engine is even running sometimes. The same engine in my previous Octavia was quiet noisy by comparison, so it must be better sound insulation. I guess the 1.9 is the same, and much quieter in the Superb2.

My 2.0 PD140 DSG Auto Superb2 is very quiet, and its hard to tell the engine is even running sometimes. The same engine in my previous Octavia was quiet noisy by comparison, so it must be better sound insulation. I guess the 1.9 is the same, and much quieter in the Superb2.

I guess that should be the case - the Superb being a superior quality car overall, it should be much better sound-proofed.

COMMON RAIL DIESEL NO WAY FOR ME

Did someone think about - why you buying diesel?

People buying Diesel as they thinking it is cheaper in fuel! DOES IT ?

1) Did we take in cost price difference new cars petrol and diesel I will say it is about 1000-1500 Pounds Difference or more.

2) Petrol Station prices for Diesel and Petrol Difference for me it is about 10p / Litre

3) CR or PD still noisy diesel

4) No reving as it is diesel want to replace engine no problems rev

5) DPF this is the most funny part in the diesel when it is will be need to replace after 70 000 Milles or something like that it is will be costing min about 1000 pounds new

6) CR diesel accelerate, and you will see that MPG will not be really good 40-45 MPG or best 50 MPG

So did you still thinking that CR it is future for diesels cars

I will help you to see much you spend on CR new:

(£ 1000-1500 Difference for new car ) + 10 p / mille + more expensive repairs + DPF = …………….

If you not exceeding more that 20 000 Milles per Year it need to think do I really want diesel does it really cheaper or better

AND 1.6 CR for superb it a joke this engine after 40 000 – 60 0000 miles will be dead.

I do not say that it is not driveable - YES it is driveable, but not for long life of the engine

COMMON RAIL DIESEL NO WAY FOR ME

Did someone think about - why you buying diesel?

People buying Diesel as they thinking it is cheaper in fuel! DOES IT ?

1) Did we take in cost price difference new cars petrol and diesel I will say it is about 1000-1500 Pounds Difference or more.

2) Petrol Station prices for Diesel and Petrol Difference for me it is about 10p / Litre

3) CR or PD still noisy diesel

4) No reving as it is diesel want to replace engine no problems rev

5) DPF this is the most funny part in the diesel when it is will be need to replace after 70 000 Milles or something like that it is will be costing min about 1000 pounds new

6) CR diesel accelerate, and you will see that MPG will not be really good 40-45 MPG or best 50 MPG

So did you still thinking that CR it is future for diesels cars

I will help you to see much you spend on CR new:

(£ 1000-1500 Difference for new car ) + 10 p / mille + more expensive repairs + DPF = …………….

If you not exceeding more that 20 000 Milles per Year it need to think do I really want diesel does it really cheaper or better

AND 1.6 CR for superb it a joke this engine after 40 000 – 60 0000 miles will be dead.

I do not say that it is not driveable - YES it is driveable, but not for long life of the engine

I haven't see that kind of price difference at the pump for a couple of years now...

http://www.petrolprices.com/

UK Petrol Prices for
Sunday 10th Oct 2010
	      Avg.	  Min.        Max.
Unleaded:	117.2p	111.9p	129.9p
Diesel:	        120.3p	114.9p	133.9p

COMMON RAIL DIESEL NO WAY FOR ME

Did someone think about - why you buying diesel?

People buying Diesel as they thinking it is cheaper in fuel! DOES IT ?

1) Did we take in cost price difference new cars petrol and diesel I will say it is about 1000-1500 Pounds Difference or more.

2) Petrol Station prices for Diesel and Petrol Difference for me it is about 10p / Litre

3) CR or PD still noisy diesel

4) No reving as it is diesel want to replace engine no problems rev

5) DPF this is the most funny part in the diesel when it is will be need to replace after 70 000 Milles or something like that it is will be costing min about 1000 pounds new

6) CR diesel accelerate, and you will see that MPG will not be really good 40-45 MPG or best 50 MPG

So did you still thinking that CR it is future for diesels cars

I will help you to see much you spend on CR new:

(£ 1000-1500 Difference for new car ) + 10 p / mille + more expensive repairs + DPF = …………….

If you not exceeding more that 20 000 Milles per Year it need to think do I really want diesel does it really cheaper or better

AND 1.6 CR for superb it a joke this engine after 40 000 – 60 0000 miles will be dead.

I do not say that it is not driveable - YES it is driveable, but not for long life of the engine

You have a point.. This backs up much of your arguement: here

yes you I right that the difference now is

UK Petrol Prices for

Sunday 10th Oct 2010

Avg. Min. Max.

Unleaded: 117.2p 111.9p 129.9p

Diesel: 120.3p 114.9p 133.9p

LRP: 124.9p 118.0p 118.0p

Super: 124.5p 114.9p 137.9p

LPG: 65.0p 56.9p 71.9p

Just 3 p/ l difference but not for long

I do not watch difference all the time petrol and diesel but from the past couple mount I think it is about 10 p difference in sainsburys petrol station was.

As I do not fill up in other petrol stations

I know to say = 10 p it is not correct as can change next day.

So can we agree that 5p or more will be average per year

It is need to look statistical data for all year fuel price that it is will real data

When I was doing 600 miles per week my then Golf MK 4 TDI saved me over £30 per week over the equivalent petrol engined Golf in fuel costs . Nuff said.

Edited 11 October, 201015 yr by vwcabriolet1971

Skoda Octavia:

-------------------------

1.2 TSI 105 Bhp

Economy: Fuels consumption Combined 49.6 (5.7)

SE Price:14.215

-------------------------

1.6TDI CR 105 Bhp

Economy: Fuels consumption Combined 62.8 (4.5)

SE Price:16.535

So lets say we thinking to buy 1.2 TSI 105 Bhp or 1.6TDI CR 105 Bhp

10 000 Milles per Year

10 000 / 60 Milles = 166.6

166.6 x (Fuel Combined)

--------------------------------------------------------

1.2 TSI

166.6 x 5.7 Litres = 949.9962 Litters per 10 000 Miles

949.9962 x fuels price today Urban Unleaded 1.172 p = 1113.39 Pounds

1.6 TDI CR

166.6 x 4.5 = 749.99Litters per 10 000 Miles

749.997 x fuels price today Diesel 1.203 p = 902.246391 pounds

So one Year price difference on fuel CR VS TSI

1113.39 Pounds - 902.246391 pounds = 211.14 Pounds CR SAVED

So lets say CR saved on fuel per Year 211.14 Pounds

IF DIESEL WILL BE MORE EXPENSIVE THESE 211 POUNDS WILL BE LESS !!!!!

-------------------------------------------------------

Now New Car

1.2 TSI 14.215 Pounds 1.6 CR 16.535 pounds

16.535 - 14.215 = 2320 pounds Difference

SO 2320 pounds YOUR save on new car for TSI choice

Now lets see how many Years CR must work to compensate this difference

2320 Pounds difference / 211.14 Pounds saved on CR fuel = SO 10 YEARS

AFTER 10 Years the CR will be cheaper than TSI

Edited 11 October, 201015 yr by Incognito

Skoda Octavia:

-------------------------

1.2 TSI 105 Bhp

Economy: Fuels consumption Combined 49.6 (5.7)

SE Price:14.215

-------------------------

1.6TDI CR 105 Bhp

Economy: Fuels consumption Combined 62.8 (4.5)

SE Price:16.535

So lets say we thinking to buy 1.2 TSI 105 Bhp or 1.6TDI CR 105 Bhp

10 000 Milles per Year

10 000 / 60 Milles = 166.6

166.6 x (Fuel Combined)

--------------------------------------------------------

1.2 TSI

166.6 x 5.7 Litres = 949.9962 Litters per 10 000 Miles

949.9962 x fuels price today Urban Unleaded 1.172 p = 1113.39 Pounds

1.6 TDI CR

166.6 x 4.5 = 749.99Litters per 10 000 Miles

749.997 x fuels price today Diesel 1.203 p = 902.246391 pounds

So one Year price difference on fuel CR VS TSI

1113.39 Pounds - 902.246391 pounds = 211.14 Pounds CR SAVED

So lets say CR saved on fuel per Year 211.14 Pounds

IF DIESEL WILL BE MORE EXPENSIVE THESE 211 POUNDS WILL BE LESS !!!!!

-------------------------------------------------------

Now New Car

1.2 TSI 14.215 Pounds 1.6 CR 16.535 pounds

16.535 - 14.215 = 2320 pounds Difference

SO 2320 pounds YOUR save on new car for TSI choice

Now lets see how many Years CR must work to compensate this difference

2320 Pounds difference / 211.14 Pounds saved on CR fuel = SO 10 YEARS

AFTER 10 Years the CR will be cheaper than TSI

whilst some of this is valid its also not quite true as the diesel version will be worth more come trade in time

also i suspect a 1.2 octavia will strugle to make it to the 200,000 mile mark but the 1.6 tdi should be good for that millage (?)

the diffrence between petrol and diesel has closed in the last 2-3 years with car makers looking more and more towards small turbo charged engine rather than pure displacment

if you look at my case then i drive 40000 miles per year and i want a fully loaded Superb estate as i need the load space and the comfort so at the moment the 1.4 tsi is not avalible so the only petrol option is 1.8 or 3.6 neither of which meet the companies requirement of 35mpg on the urban cycle

diesel is probably the only option at the moment for people like my self

and given the current company car tax goverment theft ! then i have no choice

Andy

PLUS:

Diesel is cheaper to produce, and is only more expensive in the UK due to tax. Everywhere else in the EU, it is cheaper than unleaded.

The diesel will also be cheaper to tax and insure.

I think there are pros and cons of each choice. But the new smaller engines are now making a bigger and better case for petrol than before.

Parkers have an online calculator which is quite good.

As usual though any calculations are only valid based on the price differential between petrol and diesel remaining at today's level (which maybe a bit optimistic if you are leaning towards diesel).

http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/petrol-vs-diesel/?deriv=49291#manu=10172&model=1701&deriv=49291

Trouble is that calculator only looks at the fuel costs and doesn't take into account the cheaper insurance on diesels (at least it was for me on the two variants of Octavia vRS) and the higher residual value of the diesel (again based on second hand prices of 3 year old cars for me)

I created a spreadsheet (don't think I have it any more) and for me the break even point was about 14,500 miles a year and as my 9 month old car has nearly 21000 miles on it then for me it was a no brainer...

The spreadsheet took into account the cost of the car, projected economy (think I used 45mpg for diesel and 32mpg for petrol) and cost of fuel (I put diesel at 3p a litre more than unleaded), insurance costs as they were at the time, estimated services costs (from phoning different dealers and asking about different mileage services), how much cash the company give me for business miles, how much I'd get back from the taxman (based on 20000 business miles a year) for the mileage allowance etc etc

I would love a petrol car, but currently I can't justify the extra costs, however, if my annual mileage reduces significantly, then petrol here I come...

Believe you me, when you take the lower cost to buy, and no dpf,turbo,pump thing's into consideration, a petrol car makes sense, as a multi diesel car owner the mpg difference on normal use is around 6mpg, and my next car will be a petrol Avensis, reason being, Toyota hold their hands up when things go wrong, and the dealer's are so much better and more approachable than a VAG on is, I know this 1.6 has no dpf, but it will eat a turbo in a car that weighs as much as a Superb does, and as said earlier by the time you hit 40-60k in it, you'll think you own a 1.0 Polo.

If cost per mile is what you want, get the petrol and convert it to LPG.

Yes I know there may not be a supplier nearby, or it is not valid for road tax as it is not factory fitted, and yes it will take up some boot space and it will cost £1.5 to £2K to convert.

I am waiting for my current car to pass by the economical repair point so that I can buy a superb. I currently drive a Seat Leon 1.8 LPG converted at 30K and chipped to 210BHP, she currently has 160K and runs fine and has had no major parts replaced costing about £300 a year to run.

LPG is 60p, MPG is 35ish so cost per mile is good. Try factoring that into a decision of 1.6TDI vs Petrol:

Model SE Price Econ. L/10K LPG

3.6 v6 28220 28 (10.01) 1668.33 £1,001.00

1.8 4x4 21430 34.9 (8.1) 1350.00 £810.00

1.8 DSG 21105 39.8 (7.1) 1183.33 £710.00

LPG is good for high mileage, the more mileage the more savings e.g.

Model SE Price Econ L/40K LPG £

3.6 v6 28220 28 (10.01) 6673.33 £4,004.00

1.8 4x4 21430 34.9 (8.1) 5400.00 £3,240.00

1.8 DSG 21105 39.8 (7.1) 4733.33 £2,840.00

worth a look for those interested ....

If cost per mile is what you want, get the petrol and convert it to LPG.

Yes I know there may not be a supplier nearby, or it is not valid for road tax as it is not factory fitted, and yes it will take up some boot space and it will cost £1.5 to £2K to convert.

I am waiting for my current car to pass by the economical repair point so that I can buy a superb. I currently drive a Seat Leon 1.8 LPG converted at 30K and chipped to 210BHP, she currently has 160K and runs fine and has had no major parts replaced costing about £300 a year to run.

LPG is 60p, MPG is 35ish so cost per mile is good. Try factoring that into a decision of 1.6TDI vs Petrol:

Model SE Price Econ. L/10K LPG

3.6 v6 28220 28 (10.01) 1668.33 £1,001.00

1.8 4x4 21430 34.9 (8.1) 1350.00 £810.00

1.8 DSG 21105 39.8 (7.1) 1183.33 £710.00

LPG is good for high mileage, the more mileage the more savings e.g.

Model SE Price Econ L/40K LPG £

3.6 v6 28220 28 (10.01) 6673.33 £4,004.00

1.8 4x4 21430 34.9 (8.1) 5400.00 £3,240.00

1.8 DSG 21105 39.8 (7.1) 4733.33 £2,840.00

worth a look for those interested ....

Where can you get them converted, most places dont do LPG conversions for the 1.8

Where can you get them converted, most places dont do LPG conversions for the 1.8

Hold up Skippy, we had a few guy's go LPG a few years ago, all said they preferred a derv in the end, the LPG was rubbish on MPG and misfired a lot, and I can't see where you get 35mpg out of a 1.8 car Lucy, I don't think the official figure is that high, and LPG is known to lose 25% mpg once fitted, add in the taxman is slowly creeping it up, and it only has cost restraint's for a limited time, irregular station's selling it unless you are in Devon and Cornwall, and it doesn't add up in the long run, best fuel compromise is a low BHP Octavia diesel right now, 40+ mpg, reliable and capable.

Edited 13 October, 201015 yr by Supurbia

Hold up Skippy, we had a few guy's go LPG a few years ago, all said they preferred a derv in the end, the LPG was rubbish on MPG and misfired a lot, and I can't see where you get 35mpg out of a 1.8 car Lucy, I don't think the official figure is that high, and LPG is known to lose 25% mpg once fitted, add in the taxman is slowly creeping it up, and it only has cost restraint's for a limited time, irregular station's selling it unless you are in Devon and Cornwall, and it doesn't add up in the long run, best fuel compromise is a low BHP Octavia diesel right now, 40+ mpg, reliable and capable.

LPG is indeed a hard thing to compare as people buy conversions (and there are quite a few on the bandwagon) using the cheapest possible solutions which is a bad idea, and cheap can often give a bad experience.

You need to use a well supported and built system such as PRINS (dutch/japanese).

I have seen cheap systems and would not touch them with a barge pole and have seen quality built systems (such as mine) which do not misfire, they do reduce MPG by 5-10% and this is down to how they are configured/set-up. The taxman is indeed taking his time as I converted in 2003 and paid 40p and there has been an astronomical 66% rise to 60p in 7 years.

I have travelled all over Europe and LPG is everywhere (different nozzles which I kept the converters in my glovebox)

The best thing for you to see is meet and try out a correctly converted car for yourself to make judgement.

And what a typo above :-) I get about 25mpg I think, generally it costs £33 for 55Litres to go 300miles

1.8 20vT - 1781 cc inline-4 - DOHC 20v Turbo 132 kW (179 PS; 177 bhp) @ 5,500 235 N·m (173 ft·lbf) @ 1,950-5,000 AUQ 08/99–10/05 (accidentally chipped to 200 to 210bhp ish, but she is a bit old (X reg 2000) so I don't think that kind of power is left, boo)

I used to have an LPG car, and in my experience fuel consumption does go up a little with LPG, and you lose a bit of power.

In any case a major put-off LPG is that is restricts where you can take the car. There a various road tunnels in France which are banned to LPG cars, same with underground car parks (although this is unclear as the sign sometimes refers only to tanks not fitted with safety valves). And of course you can't go on Eurotunnel with it.

Edited 13 October, 201015 yr by scouter2

Skippy41 have a chat with Simon at grange lane motors in Accrington on 01254 392425, and I got the car remapped at Awesome GTI.

The 1.8Turbo engine is loads of fun but as I had an 4.2l A8 before and I miss the space so the superb seems an ideal choice.

So don't saddle yourself with just a choice of Derv or petrol, throw in other options, of which LPG is one of them I have found to be cheap if you do the mileage.

P.s. No bother for me in travelling in France tunnels and swiss tunnells etc. the only restriction I found was eurotunnel, and I travel cheaper on Norfolkline ferries so was never inclined to use it :-).

Good luck to all in working out if the 1.6 will work, as above I believe the turbo will go early in the car's life but I hope vag have done their calcs and the car runs fine with the power.