Biodiesel & Skoda Superb Diesel

[Incognito]

Hi All,

I do not see the point to fill up these bio diesel as the price not really cheap compare to petrol station diesel

Today price average Diesel £1.40 When http://www.ryebiofuels.co.uk/ sells for £ 1.10

The risk of using Bio Diesel:

1 Manufactures do not recommend / allow to use So basically you will be voiding warranty for engine

2 It maybe someone engine fail as by manufacturers fault but because you use BioDiesel they have reason to void your warranty

3 The BioDiesel it self it is not something wrong to use – but because we have so many “thief’s/scam†these days they can mix with some bad quality used vegetable oils to make better profit to them

4 As result of bad oils your engine smoke will smell like fish and chips + fuels filters injectors etc will suffer

Saving Calculator

Petrol station price £1.40 - biodiesel price 1.10 = 30 p x 60 Litre full tank = 18 Pounds of savings

Fuel Tank 60 Litre say 500 Milles of drive

Per year 10 000 Miles = 10 000 / 500 = 20 Times need full tank

20 times x saving 18 pounds =360 Pounds

BUT if you drive someone far away from biodiesel supplier you will be filling from petrol station so say 40 Pounds minus (2 times full tank )

360 –40 as not all the time can be filled up with Bio Diesel =320 Pounds Left

michaelp WRITE:

You will be need to change oil more often so or add

Oil change say about 60 Pounds or more ?

Did you see now it is left less saving as 320 – 60 oil usage / change = 260 Pounds

So for total 26o Pounds per Year saving you are risking lot

I did not mention Diesel fuel filter is it capable to filter BioDiesel as I remember that it is need to change to BioDiesel specifications

[Richf]

You can make it yourself for about 30 pence per litre and provided you dont make more than 2500 litres you dont pay tax

Potentially big savings to be had , not that i would risk it

[michaelp]

And what if it's not just about the savings....

Sustainable - 80% of the Soys Been passed into the food chain for processing after cold pressing the oil.

For EN 590 SoyDiesel;

78% less CO2 in fuel life cycle

• 95% less Carcinogenic compounds,

• 100% elimination of Sulphur Dioxide (SO2),

• 37% less un-burnt Hydro Carbons,

• 46% less Carbon Monoxide (CO),

• 68% less particulate matter.

and the down side... 2 x the NO2 of Mineral Diesel.

PS Luvin my new ride - Skoda Superb Ambition sedan TDI getting around 6lt/100km on combined running off the maxidot.

Running B30 after using the first third of my tank and topping up with B100.

Edited 11 April, 2011 by michaelp

[Ozsko]

And what if it's not just about the savings....

Sustainable - 80% of the Soys Been passed into the food chain for processing after cold pressing the oil.

For EN 590 SoyDiesel;

78% less CO2 in fuel life cycle• 95% less Carcinogenic compounds,

• 100% elimination of Sulphur Dioxide (SO2),

• 37% less un-burnt Hydro Carbons,

• 46% less Carbon Monoxide (CO),

• 68% less particulate matter.

and the down side... 2 x the N)2 of Mineral Diesel.

PS Luvin my new ride - Skoda Superb Ambition sedan TDI getting around 6lt/100km on combined running off the maxidot.

Running B30 after using the first third of my tank and topping up with B100.

Have you got a plan if it causes problems and the fuel system needs repair? I am not trying to denigrate your choice but the fuel systems in these cars are damned expensive things to repair, is it worth the risk?

Edited 24 March, 2011 by Ozsko

[Richf]

There is bio-diesel and bio-diesel though, we are talking about 2 different things , here in the UK most bio-diesel is made from recycled waste oil from the catering industry. There are companies using the same kind of industrial processes that you have in Aus but that doesnt offer a significant enough savings over conventional diesel nor has a wide enough network to offer a viable alternative for many people

As far as i'm concerned any environmental argument falls on deaf ears as soon as I hear someone bought a new car since that has more impact than the fuel the car will burn for its entire life

Here is more info on how people make it at home http://www.oilybits.com/making-bio-diesel/info_14.html'>http://www.oilybits.com/making-bio-diesel/info_14.html

http://www.oilybits.com/

[michaelp]

As far as i'm concerned any environmental argument falls on deaf ears as soon as I hear someone bought a new car since that has more impact than the fuel the car will burn for its entire life

Fair point Richf. The environmental cost is substantial, and the concept of replacing fuel tanks for lithium batteries is replacing one non-renewable with another.

I don't sell my cars, I move them down the food chain. My wife gets my Ocy, my daughter gets my wife's car and she is selling off a 1999 Mazda Astina with 300,000km on the clock.

Or we could all just walk but then there's the environmental cost of manufacturing Nikes

[Richf]

You cant claim the environment point when you have an M5 in your list of cars

Bit like myself , my wife nicked my Superb and left me driving her Octy though

[michaelp]

You cant claim the environment point when you have an M5 in your list of cars

Are... M5 is Manual 5 speed for the Ocy gear box.

[michaelp]

End of week one in 09 Superb; 570 km travelled mostly city, Brim refill 34 litres (5.96 l/100km ). Latest refill brings me to ~B80 of En590 SoyDiesel. DPF indicator has not appeared yet.

Rationale; by putting a high SoyDiesel percentage into the fuel tank early I'm hoping to minimise the DPF burn off incidence (almost no particulate in SoyDiesel) which should substantially reduce the risk of SoyDiesel residual in the sump oil.

[michaelp]

Update to post #20

First 1000 kms no DPF light, I'm therefore assuming no DPF Burnoff. No sooting at the tailpipe. Slight greying of the engine oil with no change in dipstick level. Currently running ~B80 as I dilute down the 3/4 tank of mineral diesel from delivery. Combined consumption is 7.2 lt/100kms. Best consumption is mid 4's on a 90km mostly motorway journey. These figures are around 0.5lt/100kms more than my 1.9PD Octavia Hatch.

[Gizmo]

Update to post #20

First 1000 kms no DPF light, I'm therefore assuming no DPF Burnoff.

I am not sure the DPF burnoff will produce the light on the dash?

My 7,000mile Superb has never shown the DPF light.

[michaelp]

I am not sure the DPF burnoff will produce the light on the dash?

My 7,000mile Superb has never shown the DPF light.

My interpretation (which stands to be corrected) from the owners manual ;

If the warning light comes on, this means that soot has accumulated in the diesel

particle filter because of the frequent short distances. (DOES THIS REFER TO ADDITIONAL DPF BURNOFF THEN?)

[Richf]

During normal running and regeneration the light will not come on , only if the dpf hasnt been able to regenerate itself due to driving conditions will it come on.

If bio-diesel does produce more soot then it will mean your dpf will need replacing sooner than usual , the ash left over from the regeneration process stays in the DPF eventually it will fill up something we all have to look forward to

[Guest]

As Richf says the light does not come on if DPF is managing a regen under normal conditions, if it does come on it means that it could not regenerate itself under the current driving conditions. You then have to follow instructions in the manual. If that does not work it means a forced regeneration preferably at a dealer.

If the bio diesel produces more ash than normal pump diesel the DPF will obviously block faster. The warranty will also be voided by the use of Bio Diesel, I doubt if the savings on fuel costs will cover the cost of a DPF in the long term. I would also be concerned with the seals etc in the very high pressure CR system.

I do not like the sound of the slight greying of the engine oil in such a short distance.

[Richf]

If the soot is grey as opposed to black then the oil will go that colour , its the soot that make oil go black

[michaelp]

1500km update; Oil tested 3 times now by petrochemist. No readable SoyDiesel in sump oil to date, under mostly careful suburban driving conditions, sipping ~6.9lt/100km. This driving pattern should be setting off DPF regeneration using normal fuel, but the science suggests there has been minimal regeneration required. Engine running like a dream.

Next 8 days brings 3,000+km of freeway driving (Sydney>Brisbane>Sydney>Albury>Sydney), so that will be a useful comparison. Nice to be driving a comfy cruiser!!!!

[Sprightlybob]

1500km update; Oil tested 3 times now by petrochemist. No readable SoyDiesel in sump oil to date, under mostly careful suburban driving conditions, sipping ~6.9lt/100km. This driving pattern should be setting off DPF regeneration using normal fuel, but the science suggests there has been minimal regeneration required. Engine running like a dream.

Next 8 days brings 3,000+km of freeway driving (Sydney>Brisbane>Sydney>Albury>Sydney), so that will be a useful comparison. Nice to be driving a comfy cruiser!!!!

[Sprightlybob]

Keep an eye out as you burble up the Pacific Highway around Coffs Harbour for my Rosso Brunello Superb still burning 20 century diesel!!,

[Sprightlybob]

STOP PRESS: The Australian Government has announced that the only service station in Sydney selling 100% biofuel has been ordered to stop sales as there is an unacceptable level of sulphur released during combustion. The main supplier of soybean oil which sold biofuel to the service station was unable to provide evidence that it DID NOT supply the oil that failed the test.

Seems there is a way to go before biofuels do not create as many problems as they seek to prevent.

[michaelp]

Having been to the servo at Marrickville yesterday and spoken with Natbiogroup (soydiesel manufacturer) the press release has presented part of the story it seems....

Weekly sampling has been carried out by the Commonwealth Department for the Environment and Water Resource for several months checking the 100% content of B100.

The SoyDiesel supplied by Natbiogroup produces 1/10 of the allowable 10mg/kg sulphur under combustion according to the certification test results here

From the Sydney Morning Herald

Australia's main supplier of biofuel made from soybeans, National Biodiesel, has supplied Franks Automotive in the past but was able to prove it did not supply the fuel that failed the tests.

Read more: http://www.smh.com.au/environment/energy-smart/drivers-left-to-fill-up-on-air-after-biofuel-cut-20110419-1dnis.html#ixzz1K85DnVyh

The conspiricists among us smell big oil and Politics lurking in the shadows......

Ah well back to SoyB20 (still available) until bureaucracy catches up with science.

So my 3200km test run results Sydney>Brisbane>Sydney>Albury>Sydney;

- no visible change to oil levels or colour or consistency after the run.

- average consumption brim to brim 5.5lt/100km (5.3 on Maxidot), average speed 92km/h (GPS) - driving pattern cruise control at road speed limit mostly 110km/h

Sweet car to drive!

Edited 21 April, 2011 by michaelp

[michaelp]

7500km update; (halfway to routine service) now running B20 - B30 (see previous post)

Yass>Albury>Sydney 834km, average speed 92km/h, consumption brim to brim 40.01lt = 4.79 l/100km

(4.4 on maxidot for 530km trip both ways, maxidot average consumption since new 5.1lt/100km)

No alarming side effects in engine oil.

Edited 30 April, 2011 by michaelp

[michaelp]

26000km update using B20 soy diesel; 15,000km service passed without error code or problem. No observable changes in oil level or quality in sump doing mostly long run kms, I expect DPF burn off trgiggers may be reduced due to long runs and Soy diesel properties of less particulate.

[Sprightlybob]

26000km update using B20 soy diesel; 15,000km service passed without error code or problem. No observable changes in oil level or quality in sump doing mostly long run kms, I expect DPF burn off trgiggers may be reduced due to long runs and Soy diesel properties of less particulate.

Good result. I am being persuaded!!

[michaelp]

33,000km update

30000km service passed without incident or error codes.

Continue running B20-40 Soy Diesel (i buy B80 from Kempsey Retailer (winter mix) and add 20 lt jerry can to ~20 litres of Caltex by refilling the tank once it reaches 2/3 empty. I then fill it from a Caltex pump again once it reaches around half a tank. I then repeat the above cycle.

Combined consumption since new is averaging 5.0-5.1 lt/100km (brim to brim) with mostly country kms.

[oh_superb]

STOP PRESS: The Australian Government has announced that the only service station in Sydney selling 100% biofuel has been ordered to stop sales as there is an unacceptable level of sulphur released during combustion. The main supplier of soybean oil which sold biofuel to the service station was unable to provide evidence that it DID NOT supply the oil that failed the test.

Seems there is a way to go before biofuels do not create as many problems as they seek to prevent.

What!?!? PURE BIODIESEL contains NO SULPHUR at all! It is literally just pure methyl ester. More likely they were stopped selling the fuel they were selling because it was some dodgy mix. Maybe heating oil, as this tends to be in low tax bracket and up to 2000 ppm sulphur content!