Hids, Xenons or Bosch Pure LIght

[vRS_Pagey]

Are the design of the Octy projector headlamps the same as would be fitted with HID's?

afaik the projector style lamps as fitted to the Octy 2 are specfically designed for Xenon's, so fitting HID's is the way forward!

[silver1011]

There doesn't appear to be to be any visual difference externally on the pre-FL which is the great thing about retrofitting HID's to the Octavia.

The projector's are much better than traditional reflectors for directing the light and preventing scatter.

Also if you have the headlight wash system it will be very difficult to tell that they aren't OEM

[vRS_Pagey]

There doesn't appear to be to be any visual difference externally on the pre-FL which is the great thing about retrofitting HID's to the Octavia.

The projector's are much better than traditional reflectors for directing the light and preventing scatter.

Also if you have the headlight wash system it will be very difficult to tell that they aren't OEM

Not that I consider it best practice but I intend getting a couple of headlamp washer covers from a scrappy, paint them and stick them on the bumper for effect!

[Hauptmann]

The Octavia 2 headlights are the same unit, whether HID or halogen light source is fitted. The only difference is the mounting flange for the bulb/burner. If you look in the rear cover of your halogen headlights you'll see the three holes where the mounting screws locate the ballast on the HID version.

Location of the light source on the HID and H7 halogens is virtually identical. In both cases the centre of the light source is 24mm from the mounting face. The only difference is that the halogen filament is located 0.5mm off-centre (downwards) from the bulb axis, whereas the HID light source sits on the axis. This is why you MIGHT need a slight re-alignment when HID burners are fitted.

[DLW]

The only difference is that the halogen filament is located 0.5mm off-centre (downwards) from the bulb axis, whereas the HID light source sits on the axis. This is why you MIGHT need a slight re-alignment when HID burners are fitted.

I took mine to be check for alignment at Kwik Fit and they were very slightly out as expected.

[JR RS]

when it comes to HIDs/Xenons - i'd highly stress on the importance of the "self-levelling".

headlamp washers u can do without, but self-levelling is a MUST!!

the intensity a halogen bulb in projector lamp is not as harmful as a xenon bulb pointing into ur eyes!! on a flat roads - no problem. however as soon as ur car is angled slightly upwards, like going up an inclined road, the beam thrown out is higher, and into the eyes of oncoming drivers!! with self-levelling however, the beam is automatically adjusted downwards to compensate for the incline.

unfortunately with aftermarket kits - u don't get self-levelling. retrofitting a self-levelling kit (if u can get ur hands on one, or even from a wreck) is a pain, actually - a miracle!

Edited 17 December, 2010 by JR RS

[GoneToBeemer]

when it comes to HIDs/Xenons - i'd highly stress on the importance of the "self-levelling".

headlamp washers u can do without, but self-levelling is a MUST!!

the intensity a halogen bulb in projector lamp is not as harmful as a xenon bulb pointing into ur eyes!! on a flat roads - no problem. however as soon as ur car is angled slightly upwards, like going up an inclined road, the beam thrown out is higher, and into the eyes of oncoming drivers!! with self-levelling however, the beam is automatically adjusted downwards to compensate for the incline.

unfortunately with aftermarket kits - u don't get self-levelling. retrofitting a self-levelling kit (if u can get ur hands on one, or even from a wreck) is a pain, actually - a miracle!

This is not strictly true, the self levelling system only works based on the load in the rear of the vehicle based on sensors, it will not adjust the angle of the lights based on inclines / declines

[DLW]

This is not strictly true, the self levelling system only works based on the load in the rear of the vehicle based on sensors, it will not adjust the angle of the lights based on inclines / declines

that's what i thought too, it would be a bit pointless if you were going up a hill on a country lane and your lights dipped and you couldn't see the road in front of you. Could fit/adapt the manual leveller to the brake load bias to dip the lights.

[Hauptmann]

The self-level system on HID equipped vehicles is for load compensation. It has a fairly long time-constant and does not respond to undulations in the road surface (if it did, the motors wouldn't last long!). It basically automates the function provided by the headlight load compensation manual adjuster found in non-HID vehicles.

It does not provide an correction on inclined roads. The system measures the ride height of the vehicle front and rear and corrects accordingly. The ride height doesn't alter on inclined roads, it only alters with load.

[GoneToBeemer]

The self-level system on HID equipped vehicles is for load compensation. It has a fairly long time-constant and does not respond to undulations in the road surface (if it did, the motors wouldn't last long!). It basically automates the function provided by the headlight load compensation manual adjuster found in non-HID vehicles.

It does not provide an correction on inclined roads. The system measures the ride height of the vehicle front and rear and corrects accordingly. The ride height doesn't alter on inclined roads, it only alters with load.

A better explanation than mine

[JR RS]

believe it or not - it does adjust the vertical aim based on the angle of the car too!! not instaneously, like when going over a speedbump, its not going to 'adjust' for that. but when driving uphill - it will adjust.

here is an extract from wikipedia:-

The regulation stipulates a more stringent version of this antiglare measure if the vehicle has headlamps with low beam light source(s) that produce more than 2,000 lumens – xenon bulbs and certain high-power halogens, for example. Such vehicles must be equipped with headlamp self-levelling systems that sense the vehicle's degree of squat due to cargo load and road inclination, and automatically adjust the headlamps' vertical aim to keep the beam correctly oriented without any action required by the driver.

hence why it is still illegal for a person to fit hid (xenon) bulbs in vehicle without "automatic self-levelling". that manual 0,1,2,3 switch on the side only takes care of the load.

[Hauptmann]

Just because something is written down doesn't make it true.

Think for a bit - would it really be sensible for the headlamps to try to level (w.r.t. gravity) when driving up hill? The beams would be pointing into the ground!

No, the healight leveling works with respect to the chassis angle, NOT the road surface angle! It is simply there to correct for squat due to load variation.

[vRS_Pagey]

I have to say, I think that quote is open to interpretation, imo.

[JR RS]

Just because something is written down doesn't make it true.

Think for a bit - would it really be sensible for the headlamps to try to level (w.r.t. gravity) when driving up hill? The beams would be pointing into the ground!

No, the healight leveling works with respect to the chassis angle, NOT the road surface angle! It is simply there to correct for squat due to load variation.

oh dear......looks like i'm gonna have to start drawing pictures!!!

i never said it would aim "parallel" to "level ground".

wat i'm trying to say is that:-

- when going up hill, the beam will be "slightly" tilted downwards, rather than staying at usual level, throwing the top of the beam up into the horizon.

- when going down hill, the beam will be "slightly" tilted upwards, so as to light more of the road ahead. if left at usual level, less of the road is lit.

here is some more "written" material.....here

[vRS_Pagey]

oh dear......looks like i'm gonna have to start drawing pictures!!!

i never said it would aim "parallel" to "level ground".

wat i'm trying to say is that:-

- when going up hill, the beam will be "slightly" tilted downwards, rather than staying at usual level, throwing the top of the beam up into the horizon.

- when going down hill, the beam will be "slightly" tilted upwards, so as to light more of the road ahead. if left at usual level, less of the road is lit.

here is some more "written" material.....here

I get your point and fully understand the concept of adaptive lighting, but surely this function could potentially cause problems if the self-leveling isn't instant. For example, if you go up a short hill or a hump back bridge, as you are reaching the top the headlamps angle down, you go over the crest and start back down the other side, the beam would be pointing to low to the ground! Unless the adjustment time is incredibly quick you will basically driving blind.

[GoneToBeemer]

I get your point and fully understand the concept of adaptive lighting, but surely this function could potentially cause problems if the self-leveling isn't instant. For example, if you go up a short hill or a hump back bridge, as you are reaching the top the headlamps angle down, you go over the crest and start back down the other side, the beam would be pointing to low to the ground! Unless the adjustment time is incredibly quick you will basically driving blind.

As stated before the self levelling is only based on vehicle loads and has nothing whatsoever to do with inclines. The levelling isn't instant no, on startup the vehicle sets up the angle of the lighting whether the lights are on or off so if lights are activated when the vehicle is moving the lights will always be at the correct level

[GoneToBeemer]

As stated before the self levelling is only based on vehicle loads and has nothing whatsoever to do with inclines. The levelling isn't instant no, on startup the vehicle sets up the angle of the lighting whether the lights are on or off so if lights are activated when the vehicle is moving the lights will always be at the correct level

and sorry that wasn't meant to be a reply directly to your comment pagey but more directed at the statement about lighiting reacting to inclines and declines

[vRS_Pagey]

and sorry that wasn't meant to be a reply directly to your comment pagey but more directed at the statement about lighiting reacting to inclines and declines

:p :moon: :p :moon:

Apology accepted.......

[GoneToBeemer]

:p :moon: :p :moon:

Apology accepted.......

and a merry xmas to you too

[vRS_Pagey]

Merry Christmas to you to mate.

[Hauptmann]

Don't mean to sound rude, but this is yet another pointless thread arguing over a technical aspect that is not open to any interpretation at all....

The headlight angle is controlled from front and read ride-height sensors whose output the ECU uses to compute the bodyshell angle with respect to the road surface. Road inclination does not come into it all. There is a response time-constant programmed into the ECU so that it does not respond to short-term changes in ride-height due to road undulations (otherwise the headlights would be bobbing up and down contiunally and the motors would wear out fairly quickly). As stated previously, the system is for load compensation only.

[GoneToBeemer]

Don't mean to sound rude, but this is yet another pointless thread arguing over a technical aspect that is not open to any interpretation at all....

The headlight angle is controlled from front and read ride-height sensors whose output the ECU uses to compute the bodyshell angle with respect to the road surface. Road inclination does not come into it all. There is a response time-constant programmed into the ECU so that it does not respond to short-term changes in ride-height due to road undulations (otherwise the headlights would be bobbing up and down contiunally and the motors would wear out fairly quickly). As stated previously, the system is for load compensation only.

:thumbup: :thumbup:

[silver1011]

I can see my xenons automatically adjusting when I go over some quite savage speed humps near where I live.

Is this due to the suspension travel fooling the sensors into thinking the rear of the car is loaded then?

[JR RS]

:think:

oh well......i tried.

as a last hoorah - link.

Edited 20 December, 2010 by JR RS

[DLW]

:think:

oh well......i tried.

as a last hoorah - link.

Havent you defeated your own argument.

Leveling to Reduce Glare

Headlamp leveling systems keep light parallel to the road surface regardless of the vehicle's tilt. A vehicle may tilt as a result of a relatively slow-changing event, such as the filling of a fuel tank, or by a quick-changing event such as traversing a speed bump. In both cases, the headlamps must be maintained level with the roadway. Most headlamp leveling systems correlate their adjustment angles based on a variety of sensor data—in particular suspension compression data from the front and rear axles.

Most slow-changing events occur while the vehicle is stationary and the ignition off; events such as the addition or removal of a trailer, placing heavy loads in the trunk, or the entrance or exit of passengers. Clues that a slow-change event might soon occur also abound; for example, the opening of a trunk or rear passenger doors both give a pre-emptive indication that vehicle tilt may happen.

Some rapid-change events such as hard braking or acceleration also provide early warning clues. Together with suspension and yaw-rate data, these clues help the headlamp leveling system decide the timing and magnitude of adjustment required.

As shown in above, the application of the brake or accelerator pedal provides a clue that the vehicle will soon tilt in response to rapid deceleration or acceleration. The angle of the vehicle's nose can be determined based on the rate of change in velocity along with known information about suspension travel and compression. The leveling control unit uses these clues to intelligently filter the sensor data while calculating the inclination level necessary to keep the lamp stable.

A vehicle does not tilt when going up a hill it will always be parallel to the road surface