I was wondering what diesel fuel other SM are running, I don't get any extra mpg this time of year from using BP ultimate or similar but is it so bad to put some of the cheaper lower grade super Market fuel in or am I letting my self in for problems in the future.

I was wondering what diesel fuel other SM are running, I don't get any extra mpg this time of year from using BP ultimate or similar but is it so bad to put some of the cheaper lower grade super Market fuel in or am I letting my self in for problems in the future.

If you do a search you will find that this subject has been covered.

This subject has been covered.

Many, many, many times.

Go with your gut feeling would be my advice.

Some super markets get cheap fuel from abroad that needs additives to work in our vehicle over here , the results are less MPG than other suppliers .

My Dad used to manage an Esso Bulk Plant. At his Depot he regularly filled BP, Shell and Tesco tankers. The same still occurs today, so the "chain" supermarkets do not buy their fuel abroad. Some very small retailers, Dragon for example, do buy from the Rotterdam market.

When a tanker arrives at a filling point they input a loading order, this signifies who the order is for and what is to be delivered to the tanker. This will contain the fuel plus various additives, depending on the final retailer. It will include:

dye and chemical trace to show tax has been paid or not

dye and trace to designate retailer

additives, depending on retailers spec. Typically this might include

winter anti-waxing agents

diesel anti-smoke, often dropped by supermarkets

diesel anti-foaming agent, often dropped by supermarkets

injector cleaners, often dropped by supermarkets

The reason the supermarkets can sell at discount is because they drop these additives.

I have used 2 tanks of "Super diesel" and have found NO improvement in consumption or performance.

I think it's a rose to get you to spend an extra 5p at the pumps for a 'more efficient' fuel.

I won't buy the stuff as it's expensive enough as it is.

I think it's a rouse to get you to spend an extra 5p at the pumps for a 'more efficient' fuel.

I won't buy the stuff as it's expensive enough as it is.

Edited 10 January, 201115 yr by Macdemon

We do not have diffeent grades of Diesel here. We do have a market share fight between oil companies, who drop the price at times as much as 10%. Whenever I see a low price, I fill up the tank if there is any room for a reasonable amount. So far, I have been able to fill up at a discount maybe 9 out of 10 times.

On several trips in Germany, where they do have diffent grades, I have filled two tankfuls with the Super Diesel and the next two with the regular diese and have not been able to detect any difference at all.

My Dad used to manage an Esso Bulk Plant. At his Depot he regularly filled BP, Shell and Tesco tankers. The same still occurs today, so the "chain" supermarkets do not buy their fuel abroad. Some very small retailers, Dragon for example, do buy from the Rotterdam market.

When a tanker arrives at a filling point they input a loading order, this signifies who the order is for and what is to be delivered to the tanker. This will contain the fuel plus various additives, depending on the final retailer. It will include:

dye and chemical trace to show tax has been paid or not

dye and trace to designate retailer

additives, depending on retailers spec. Typically this might include

winter anti-waxing agents

diesel anti-smoke, often dropped by supermarkets

diesel anti-foaming agent, often dropped by supermarkets

injector cleaners, often dropped by supermarkets

The reason the supermarkets can sell at discount is because they drop these additives.

I have used 2 tanks of "Super diesel" and have found NO improvement in consumption or performance.

Graham

i thing you should get this made into a "stickey".

Graham

i thing you should get this made into a "stickey".

I wouldn't go that far, but it's right enough.

The key reasons not to use 'virgin' supermarket diesel are the lack of injector cleaner and lubricity enhancer, which means your car will (gradually) run worse over time - but we're talking years and tens of thousands of miles, so I guess it depends to an extent on how long you plan to keep the car. Forget stuff about increased cetane numbers etc. though - ECUs these days alter the timing to make engines run pretty much the same, whatever fuel is used.

FWIW, I use either regular ('FuelSave') Shell diesel, or supermarket fuel + Millers. 'Performance' diesels such as VPower or Ultimate will tend to give worse MPG due to being made from a slightly lighter fraction and/or part-synthetic compared to the normal stuff. The reason for this, however, is supposedly to improve responsiveness by providing quicker combustion.

It must be said that FSI petrols do coke up if run on supermarket fuel (older N/A ones, at least) so there are definite benefits on some VAG petrol engines...

I recall reading (somewhere!) that cars produced for international distribution are mapped to handle fuels in the range "awful" to "good", and that re-mapping may be able to take better advantage of "really good". Any knowledge?

BTW, I'm using Shell VPower diesel now, but aren't noticing much difference, so may not continue much longer! (£2 - 2.50 extra per typical fill-up!)

I'm not expert but I thought diesel was diesel but you could get different grades of petrol.

I'm not expert but I thought diesel was diesel but you could get different grades of petrol.

Tut Tut, James.

You can now get "regular" diesel or Shell "Supa" diesel.

Tut Tut, James.

You can now get "regular" diesel or Shell "Supa" diesel.

But apart from the additives it still burns in the same way as Tesco 'value' diesel?

I can understand BP 102Octane buring better than Esso97 Octane?

@apOgee

" Forget stuff about increased cetane numbers etc. though - ECUs these days alter the timing to make engines run pretty much the same, whatever fuel is used"

True, a valid point....

@apOgee

" Forget stuff about increased cetane numbers etc. though - ECUs these days alter the timing to make engines run pretty much the same, whatever fuel is used"

True, a valid point....

But the engine won't run the same will it. The ECU will detect how the engine is running on the grade of fuel you are using and if it detects problems, like a knock sensor in a petrol engine, it will back off the timing to save the engine from damage, this will give the fuel less time to burn and so reduce the power output. Diesel used for cars used to be the same. Off road diesel i.e. red diesel used to effectively be heating oil with a few additives, but now with emission standards going up it is now road diesel with red dye. Diesel nowadays can include up to 7% biodiesel, so where does the bio element came from, vegetable oil, rape seed oil, recycled chip shop oil(unlikely). shell super diesel is just the regular diesel with a few additives to supposedly make your car run better, that's what I think unless someone can show me different. yes jan25, it is common knowledge that manufacturers set up the tuning in their cars to allow for the low grade diesel in some countries, they have to think more about reliability than performance, that is why it is so "easy" for aftermarket tuning companies to get lots more power out of engines with a remap. Petrol is petrol too, it all comes off the same part of the fractionating tower at the refinery, the different grades are just obtained by the amount and type of additives and Octane boosters used, somebody please correct me if I'm wrong on that point too.

Ian

There are a LOT of urban myths about supermarket fuel and most are exactly that. Having worked at an oil terminal in the North East for a spell in the mid 90's I can pretty much confirm what Llanigraham said. I am pretty sure the North East for example now has only one fuel depot to supply every petrol station in the region. Most other areas will be the same, I think the North West pulls out of Ellesmere Port alone although I would not swear to that. The basic fuel that you will get is therefore the same whether you buy it at Morrisons, Tesco, Asda, Shell, Jet, Total, Esso etc. There are not separate tanks for Supermarket fuel and "posh fuel", they are all drawn from the same place. The only difference is the additives that the supermarkets tend not to add as they often use fuel as a loss leader and so need to keep the costs as low as possible. Will that affect your car? That is a personal decision and probably depends on how long you are going to keep it for. In the short term I would doubt it will cause problems but I am sure others may disagree.

I also do not believe the stories about poor storage at supermarket sites compared to others. All sites get checked by Trading Standards and if anyone had water or dirt in their fuel the consequences for claims and bad publicity would be too high to be worth the risk. Does that mean that someone somewhere has not come across a dodgy site? No, but that can be the same for any chain.

On my old Volvo site there were people there who swore by adding Millers to boost performance and mpg and the same for premium diesel. Others say they have tried it and found no difference. There may be a placebo affect at work. The advice I was given by the manager at the oil depot was if I had a top end prestige car, get the better fuel, if you have a standard diesel then don't bother. For a regular 2.0d I have never bothered. Each to their own but I would not hammer the supermarkets over fuel quality.

But the engine won't run the same will it...

I think you're coming at it from the exact opposite direction from me. My point is that there's little evidence to support that the 'cetane boost' provided by aftermarket additives has any detectable benefit. Sure, if you're comparing premium diesel (VPD is definitely a different blend to their regular stuff) to heating oil, then yes I'd expect a difference in performance. But an extra 50ml of additive in a tank of fuel?

Not really! Like I said, it's the lubricity and detergent improvements (which can be usefully recognised at the 1000ppm dilution) that I use it for...

Maybe we are heading towards the same point from different directions, agreed additives are more to improve the cleaning and lubricity so the extra gains are more by improving the spray pattern and clean burning of the fuel rather than by making the fuel produce more power. How can cetane boosters increase the calorific value of the fuel? They cannot I believe. My reply was directed more towards the quotation that ECU's will alter the timing to make the engine run the same, by altering the timing the engine will not run the same as the parameters are being altered. Also I believe that diesel is diesel as it comes from the same mineral source.

Ian

Also I believe that diesel is diesel as it comes from the same mineral source.

Ian

That 'same mineral source' is crude oil; the make-up of which varies from well-to-well. Then there's the fact that it's obtained by fractional distillation, so can vary from refinery-to-refinery, customer-to-customer, or even batch-to-batch.

The typical distillation spec is explained here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diesel_fuel#Refining

...and this is why the ECUs are written to avoid mass variations in performance. As I said earlier though, you would see a difference using fuel oil rather than DERV, but I wouldn't expect any significant variation in performance between different DERV specifications...

VW optimize their engines for proven durability. The ECU will always seek the optimal setting for this parameter, anyone who alters the ECU is running a huge risk and really is quite daft. As for the fuel it is the additives that are important Shell being the best. It is also worth noting that VW do not recommend the use of bio-fuels as they can have a detrimental effect on the engine....they have done exhaustive testing with thousands of hours on test beds.

....or supermarket fuel + Millers.

Anyone else use Millers diesel additive? I've been using it in various diesel engined cars since I had a diesel Metro. I do believe it makes a difference feeling that amongst other things it results in smoother running.

Or have I just convinced myself?

John

That 'same mineral source' is crude oil...it's obtained by fractional distillation

Shell also use Gas-to-Liquid technology - as it says on one of the tabs on the link you posted above. What proportion of the stuff on the garage forecourt it makes up I don't know.

Shell also use Gas-to-Liquid technology - as it says on one of the tabs on the link you posted above. What proportion of the stuff on the garage forecourt it makes up I don't know.

Which is basically what fractional distillation is!

How is converting gas to liquid fractional distillation? GTL is a chemical process, whereas distillation is a physical one! Both can happen in refineries, but that's a little like saying surgery is like pharmacy because they both happen in hospitals...

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gas_to_liquids

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki?search=fractional+distillation