Superb 2.0TDi compared to Superb2 2.0TDi

[bryanp]

Hi, I've been looking at replacing my 1.9TDi Superb with a Superb2, as I tow a caravan unfortunatly the 1.9TDi is out as they for some reason only fitted the 105 Bhp engine in the Superb2 so that leaves me with the 2.0TDi at 140 Bhp.

When I bought my Superb thanks to alot of advice and threads on this forum it seemed a no brainer to go for the 1.9 engine as so many problems were flagged up with the 2.0TDi, ie the oil pump, DPF,

Would anyone know if these problems were sorted for the Superb2 of have they been carried over as VAG never saw them as their problem before, I would in particular like to know if the DPF has been carried over as I can handle having the water pump changed when the cam belt is due for renewal if this is the case but the price of refilling the DPF is just rediculous!

Cheers.

[Ozsko]

Hi, I've been looking at replacing my 1.9TDi Superb with a Superb2, as I tow a caravan unfortunatly the 1.9TDi is out as they for some reason only fitted the 105 Bhp engine in the Superb2 so that leaves me with the 2.0TDi at 140 Bhp.

When I bought my Superb thanks to alot of advice and threads on this forum it seemed a no brainer to go for the 1.9 engine as so many problems were flagged up with the 2.0TDi, ie the oil pump, DPF,

Would anyone know if these problems were sorted for the Superb2 of have they been carried over as VAG never saw them as their problem before, I would in particular like to know if the DPF has been carried over as I can handle having the water pump changed when the cam belt is due for renewal if this is the case but the price of refilling the DPF is just rediculous!

Cheers.

The DPF is part of any modern diesel motor due to emissions so there is no choice in the matter.

[dstev2000]

If you have a 2.0TDI Common Rail engine on the Superb 2, it is a completely different to the old PD unit.

The CR DPF is literally bolted to the side of the turbo so it gets nice and hot unlike the old PD unit where (IIRC) the DPF was a relatively long distance from the engine.

And as already mentioned, the DPF cannot be avoided these days, even if you chop it out you stand the risk of an MOT failure in years to come.

[Supurbia]

You need a CR, the PD is a botched DPF mod, not close enough to the hot zone to burn off, or you could have the dpf taken out.

[mannyo]

I have a remapped PD140 2.0 Superb DSG, have owned it now for 12 months and put 20K miles on the clock. No issues to report, DPF has been fine and despite my new daily commute of 1 mile each way since November, has never put the DPF light on. The DPF on the superb2 is nothing like the old one, in that the old one needed a special fluid and this one does not as it gets sufficient heat from the exhaust gasses to take care of itself.

The oil pump is also no problem, as its a totally different engine in the new generation (PD and CR).

[bryanp]

If you have a 2.0TDI Common Rail engine on the Superb 2, it is a completely different to the old PD unit.

The CR DPF is literally bolted to the side of the turbo so it gets nice and hot unlike the old PD unit where (IIRC) the DPF was a relatively long distance from the engine.

And as already mentioned, the DPF cannot be avoided these days, even if you chop it out you stand the risk of an MOT failure in years to come.

So from what your saying all 2.0TDi Superd2's have a CR DPF, is that right, the reason I ask is I know the old Superb DPF has to have a catalytic oxidizer added to a resevoir in the boot at an stupid cost! this is what I was trying to avoid!

[ukcruiser]

So from what your saying all 2.0TDi Superd2's have a CR DPF, is that right, the reason I ask is I know the old Superb DPF has to have a catalytic oxidizer added to a resevoir in the boot at an stupid cost! this is what I was trying to avoid!

No, the posts above say the newer engine (CR - Common Rail) has the DPF ON the turbo (or dam close enough to it) to get hot quicker... but the old engine (PD - Pumpe Düse) has the DPF too far away from the engine, to retain enough heat for DPF regeneration's on shot(er) journeys...

Al.

ps. Hope i'm right!

[Guest]

No, the posts above say the newer engine (CR - Common Rail) has the DPF ON the turbo (or dam close enough to it) to get hot quicker... but the old engine (PD - Pumpe Düse) has the DPF too far away from the engine, to retain enough heat for DPF regeneration's on shot(er) journeys...

Al.

ps. Hope i'm right!

Yes the DOPF is right up close to the turbo, whereas the old PD140 was a complete bodge, as stated the DPF was too far away from the engine to work correctly. The CR is as stated a completely different engine and does not use any additives for regeneration.

I am on my second MkII 2.0 170 CR with DPF and have never had any problems, the only time I have seen the DPF light is when turning on the ignition. I have many short runs less than 10 miles, in the summer terrible traffic jams needing stop start and crawling for miles, if the DPF's are as bad as some people claim I must have had two exceptional vehicles.

I would be most interested if a poll could be started for all those who have had Failed DPF's and forced regenerations with the MkII CR engined Superbs, mileage, driving conditions, and fuel used that caused them.

Edited 9 March, 2011 by Guest

[bryanp]

So if I need a CR diesel instead of the PD version how do I tell the difference when going to view the cars or from adverts on the net?

[dstev2000]

The best way is to look under the bonnet, there is a whacking great cambelt driven CR fuel pump in front of the engine block on the left as you look in from the front. Also, look towards the back of the engine and you'll see a large silver heat shield to the left of the turbo, this hides the DPF which is connected directly to the exhaust outlet port of the turbo.

If you can, pop the engine cover off and you'll see the fuel rail on top running left to right, four pipes come off the back and go to each cylinder. PD units do not have this.

If you are used to a PD engine, you'll know instantly if its a CR or not, they are much quieter than the PD units.

Ask the seller whether or not it is a CR or PD unit, if they don't know, ask them to find out to save a wasted trip.

Failing that, look at the service book sticker or the sticker by the spare wheel to confirm the engine code.

I have a CR170 Superb that does a mixture of motorway and lots of traffic in West London, it went into forced DPF regen on the way home and it lasted about 2 minutes. Safe to say that side of things is working well. Its done about 15,500 miles of this type of driving and not a peep out of it.

[Gizmo]

This is my CR170 engined Superb (MY11)

[mannyo]

No, the posts above say the newer engine (CR - Common Rail) has the DPF ON the turbo (or dam close enough to it) to get hot quicker... but the old engine (PD - Pumpe Düse) has the DPF too far away from the engine, to retain enough heat for DPF regeneration's on shot(er) journeys...

Al.

ps. Hope i'm right!

The Superb2 PD140 has the DPF right up against the turbo as well, not just the CR.

[deek72]

Sorry to hijack but is there an easy way to tell a cr170 from a 140? I collect mine on Sat and just want to be sure.

[bryanp]

The Superb2 PD140 has the DPF right up against the turbo as well, not just the CR.

God, now I am completely confussed, Does anyone know if the PD has a resevoir like the Superb1 had for the additive, I beleive in the Superb1 it was in the spare wheel well?

[mannyo]

No it does not, no fluid needed at all in the Superb2 with the PD engine. I own of course, so can answer a lot of the PD related questions.

[BurialConstant]

Sorry to hijack but is there an easy way to tell a cr170 from a 140? I collect mine on Sat and just want to be sure.

And another Question is the CR140 engine the same as the CR170 just with different mapping? :S

[PDIBK]

Bryan - why discount the 1.9? The 105 has the same torque as the boggo 2.0 CR110 and not far off the CR140 - 250Nm vs 320Nm.

Yes you lose 35bhp, but I had a PD 140 in my last Octavia and rarely notice the difference to my 1.9 105 and that's in a Superb.

Granted, towing you might want the extra 35bhp and 70Nm, but will you NEED them?

[Supurbia]

No it does not, no fluid needed at all in the Superb2 with the PD engine. I own of course, so can answer a lot of the PD related questions.

Thats the beauty of turning the lump round the correct way in a FWD car.

@ Gizmo, stop showing off you tarmac tart you.

Edited 12 March, 2011 by Supurbia

[skippy41]

Sorry to hijack but is there an easy way to tell a cr170 from a 140? I collect mine on Sat and just want to be sure.

I think the engine is transverse on the MK2

[dstev2000]

I think the engine is transverse on the MK2

I think what he is asking is whether his new Mk2 Superb is a CR140 or CR170, they are all transverse mounted engines.

The badging would be the most obvious sign, the CR140 will be badged TDI While the CR170 will be badged TDI

The sticker in the service book or in the boot adjacent to the spare wheel will indicate the power output in KW, off the top of my head the CR170 will be 125KW while the CR140 will be something like 103KW.

[Superbjoser]

And another Question is the CR140 engine the same as the CR170 just with different mapping? :S

I've read somewhere that the turbo and the water pump are what differs when it come to mechanical components. Whether this is true I really can't say.

/Superbjoser

[dstev2000]

I would suspect the turbocharger is slightly larger on the CR170, maybe different injectors and CR fuel pump maybe? It would be nice to get a definitive list of actual differences.

I cant believe it is simply a map that differentiates the two engines.

[deek72]

I think what he is asking is whether his new Mk2 Superb is a CR140 or CR170, they are all transverse mounted engines.

The badging would be the most obvious sign, the CR140 will be badged TDI While the CR170 will be badged TDI

The sticker in the service book or in the boot adjacent to the spare wheel will indicate the power output in KW, off the top of my head the CR170 will be 125KW while the CR140 will be something like 103KW.

Yes, the dealer confirmed the visual difference as being only the red 'i' and red 'di'. He also said the difference in engines is just a different ecu and different software (map?).

Anyway, now I'm trying to suss out the rear windows. They won't open open on their own door switch. I've tried the isolate switch thingy on the drivers door, and the switch lit or unlit makes no difference. :( There's nowt in the MFD is there?

Edited 13 March, 2011 by deek72

[Gorillaz_Doktor]

The main difference is that 140 Cp CR is OHC (or SOHC) and 170 Cp is DOHC (see http://www.samarins.com/glossary/dohc.html). The turbine on 170 Cp CR should be the same as 2.5 TDI PD old units, VNT 17 (2.5 was 2 valves/cylinder, 170 CP CR is 4 valves/cylinder). On 140 Cp, i think is the VNT 16, as in old passat 140 Cp (not shure thou..). It is possible that the water pump to be diferent.

As the remapping point, the 170 Cp has a bigger clutch, so it can be done a safe tuning to 211 Cp / 420 nm but 140 Cp can "rise" only up to 165 Cp / 380 nm.