Towing again

[jlwah]

Went to pick up our horse trailer yesterday and the dealer was adamant that it's a legal requirement to have a seperate location to attach the brake cable and you'll get prosecuted if caught with it attached around the swan neck.

Looks like we'll have to order and fit the bracket.

[countryboy]

On the highways agency website. Doesn't seem to work but on their are you fit to tow? bit they show a pic of the breakaway cable loosely wrapped around the towbar. My link

Ian

Edited 8 May, 2011 by countryboy

[g6zru]

On the highways agency website. Doesn't seem to work but on their are you fit to tow? bit they show a pic of the breakaway cable loosely wrapped around the towbar. My link

Ian

Well that looks very explicit, however I have been trying to get a definitive answer to this question for years. To date no one has replied!

It seems that if you have an unbraked trailer then you have to have a fixed fitting for the cable so that if it becomes unhitched it is still attached to the towing vehicle. If your trailer is braked then the cable is intended to apply the trailer brakes then "breakaway". In this case the cable is designed to break whereas the unbraked type isn't, with one of these it is assumed (by me!)that it can be fixed by looping it around the towbar.

Like most laws it is deliberately ambigous so that it can be tested by the courts and make lots of money for lawyers!

Fred

[chriskelland]

Went to pick up our horse trailer yesterday and the dealer was adamant that it's a legal requirement to have a seperate location to attach the brake cable and you'll get prosecuted if caught with it attached around the swan neck.

Looks like we'll have to order and fit the bracket.

I pointed out earlier that the advice or guidance that you get depends on the Ministry or department that issues it. My first thought is that the guidance you were quoted probably came from DEFRA, the Department for Rural Affairs. Given that you would be towing a substantial trailer with a live load it would seem to make sense.

Chris.

[chriskelland]

Well that looks very explicit, however I have been trying to get a definitive answer to this question for years. To date no one has replied!

It seems that if you have an unbraked trailer then you have to have a fixed fitting for the cable so that if it becomes unhitched it is still attached to the towing vehicle. If your trailer is braked then the cable is intended to apply the trailer brakes then "breakaway". In this case the cable is designed to break whereas the unbraked type isn't, with one of these it is assumed (by me!)that it can be fixed by looping it around the towbar.

Like most laws it is deliberately ambigous so that it can be tested by the courts and make lots of money for lawyers!

Fred

See the advice given by the National Caravan Council in 2003, pretty much the same as from the DOT.

I don't think Law (SI's) is deliberately ambiguous, just written in legalese.

Chris.

[900000]

On the highways agency website. Doesn't seem to work but on their are you fit to tow? bit they show a pic of the breakaway cable loosely wrapped around the towbar. My link

Ian

All fine and well but those sketches don't say if that towbar is fixed or detachable........... So that sketch is correct ONLY if the towbar is fixed and might hail from a day when indeed all towbars were mostly fixed. From an earlier post:

When the towing device fitted to the towing vehicle is removable without the use of special tools, then the SC or BC should be attached directly to an attachment point which should not be on, or part of, the detachable componant(s).

That is pretty clear to me. If you have a detachable swaneck towbar you should have a different attachment point on the car (said clamp Å koda is now offereing). And yes I know it says "should" and not "must". So Mr Plod won't be able to give you a ticket par se but he might suggest you do things differently in the future to conform to a standard of "best practice".

[Llanigraham]

Johann,

Exactly what I said in the past.

If you look at the complete document in the link from "iamgeob", which is posted in #30, and my subsequent reply at #31, you will note that this is a "code of practice" and only states "should" not "must". Therefore it isn't actually a Law currently, only a suggestion.

Pedantic possibly, but then we all know that the legal profession are exactly that.

And to be honest 90% of the Police actually have very little knowledge of towing regulations anyway.

Edited 9 May, 2011 by Llanigraham

[900000]

Johann,

Exactly what I said in the past.

If you look at the complete document in the link from "iamgeob", which is posted in #30, and my subsequent reply at #31, you will note that this is a "code of practice" and only states "should" not "must". Therefore it isn't actually a Law currently, only a suggestion.

Pedantic possibly, but then we all know that the legal profession are exactly that.

And to be honest 90% of the Police actually have very little knowledge of towing regulations anyway.

Yes I saw them hence my reply that the sketch posted clears up nothing as the whole argument hinges ( ) around the towbar being detachable or not (I think!) I even quoted your "should" and "must" though should have said so more clearly I guess!

I will be getting a £10 thinghy to put my mind at ease anyway! I'm going the should route...

[rockhopper]

Yes I saw them hence my reply that the sketch posted clears up nothing as the whole argument hinges ( ) around the towbar being detachable or not (I think!) I even quoted your "should" and "must" though should have said so more clearly I guess!

I will be getting a £10 thinghy to put my mind at ease anyway! I'm going the should route...

My question is, will that £10 thingy cope with 3.6 tonnes, or even 4 tonnes? I would be very surprised having seen the photo.......

[Llanigraham]

My question is, will that £10 thingy cope with 3.6 tonnes, or even 4 tonnes? I would be very surprised having seen the photo.......

I asked the same question earlier. Haven't had an answer though!

[rockhopper]

I asked the same question earlier. Haven't had an answer though!

I wonder if we will ever get an answer......I won't hold my breath.

[countryboy]

My question is, will that £10 thingy cope with 3.6 tonnes, or even 4 tonnes? I would be very surprised having seen the photo.......

But Rockhopper, that £10 thingy won't have to cope with 4 tonnes will it, all it has to do at the end of the day is to provide a solid enough attachment to the car for the breakaway cable to be looped through in order to apply the brakes in the unfortunate event of trailer detachment.

I think the order of the day is to be sensible, if you have a flange or swanneck towbar then looping the breakaway cable around the towbar will be sufficient because the towbar is solidly bolted to the cars chassis. Also if a trailer does become detached the nose weight will ensure that the hitch heads towards the ground, taking the breakaway cable with it in a downwards direction until it becomes taught, applies the brakes then snaps. However due to the fact that a detachable towbar by it's very nature has a "weak" point where it can become detached from the car chassis if not locked properly, then the sensible thing to do is not to position the breakaway cable where it can be taken away with the trailer if the detachable part of the towbar does pull apart by accident. Hence the provision of a separate attachment point to ensure that the breakaway cable is attached to a part of the car which is solidly bolted to the chassis.

Ian

Just had another look at the posts and Johann, your quote of iamgeob in post 56 along with the motabars text from the link provided from Fuzzy in post 48 answers the question. Breakaway cable has to be wrapped around a part which is solidly attached to the car, which it is not if wrapped around the detachable part of a towbar, hence the need for a separate attachment point.

Edited 9 May, 2011 by countryboy

[900000]

But Rockhopper, that £10 thingy won't have to cope with 4 tonnes will it, all it has to do at the end of the day is to provide a solid enough attachment to the car for the breakaway cable to be looped through in order to apply the brakes in the unfortunate event of trailer detachment.

Unbraked trailers don't have.... well, brakes as the name suggests. So the cable can't activate anything (to then break off) hence my reading of the information in this thread tells me that an unbraked trailer needs to be permanently attached to the car should the detachable towbar break off. So the maximum it needs to permanently hold is 1500kg surely? When this is exceeded on a braked trailer the brakes will have been activated and then it will snap off when 1501kg pulls on it (or such like). Plausible?

[Llanigraham]

Countryboy,

just to point out again, the link provided by iamgeob, although from a Government document states it is a "code of practice" so isn't actually a law. However I think most of us snailshell tuggers are saying it is probably a good idea.

Johann,

not so sure about your figures. The max weight allowed for unbraked trailers in the UK is 750kg, so the "hook" should be capable of taking that strain. however since the law says that the trailer has to remain "coupled" if it falls off the ball I suspect the load actually could be much higher, especially if the nose of the a-bar dug into the road surface.

Mind you that would probably break most of the chains I see connecting the two bits!!

Also presumes that the trailer isn't overloaded too!!

[rockhopper]

Countryboy,

just to point out again, the link provided by iamgeob, although from a Government document states it is a "code of practice" so isn't actually a law. However I think most of us snailshell tuggers are saying it is probably a good idea.

Johann,

not so sure about your figures. The max weight allowed for unbraked trailers in the UK is 750kg, so the "hook" should be capable of taking that strain. however since the law says that the trailer has to remain "coupled" if it falls off the ball I suspect the load actually could be much higher, especially if the nose of the a-bar dug into the road surface.

Mind you that would probably break most of the chains I see connecting the two bits!!

Also presumes that the trailer isn't overloaded too!!

I seem to remember somewhere in a previous post in this thread that the attachment had to take double the trailer load, which is why I mentioned 3.6 tonnes (2 x 1800) or even 4 tonnes depending on how old your SM is, and Johann is mentioning 1.5 tonnes....????

[900000]

I seem to remember somewhere in a previous post in this thread that the attachment had to take double the trailer load, which is why I mentioned 3.6 tonnes (2 x 1800) or even 4 tonnes depending on how old your SM is, and Johann is mentioning 1.5 tonnes....????

I doubled the maximum weight of an UNbraked trailer at 750kg. Thus 1500kg! No science or expertise involved there. :no:

This subject could boil on for ages I think. Too many subjective "musts" and "shoulds" not to mention Government agencies having a finger in the pie...

So I say: put the metal thingy on if you like, ignore it if you like and save a tenner, hook your cable around your fixed towbar or detachable, do whatever you like just remember to double and tripple check that the hook has fully engadged on the ball. The world is a happy place again.

And remember that before what, 1982 or so or was it the 90s?, not a single trailer had this cable and the sun still came up in the east and set in the west. No harm was done then and no harm will come now, I'm sure, if all of us totally ignore the cable even. Though one should not do that. But as Graham mentioned, "should" means you do as you please!

[mdk1]

Just a thought,

Having towed a few miles, normally around the 20 tonne mark.

Can you not drill a hole in the "Towbar bracket" that is the metal bumper replacement and put a shackle through it and use that to attach the "D" ring too.

On both my Land Rover towbars, there were holes in the side of the Metal bracket to clip "D" rings onto.

[Sandy.Rogers]

I have followed this thread and have several questions which I'm not sure has been answered.

1. Is it cheaper to have the tow bar electrics prep down by manufacturer or retailer?

2. Is there any difference between the two installations? ie does the manufacturer installation make use of the traction control system in their instalation and adjust for towing a trailer and the retailer one doesn't?

3. I read on this thread the manufacturer installation installs larger fans - does that mean the retailer installer doesn't install larger fans?

Have spoken to the dealer supplying my vehicle who is looking into it - in the meantime if there are any comments............

[Llanigraham]

Just a thought,

Having towed a few miles, normally around the 20 tonne mark.

Can you not drill a hole in the "Towbar bracket" that is the metal bumper replacement and put a shackle through it and use that to attach the "D" ring too.

On both my Land Rover towbars, there were holes in the side of the Metal bracket to clip "D" rings onto.

See the photos of the bracket fitted earlier.

The tow bar mounting is a thick metal square tubular frame that is tucked up inside the rear bumper.

Also, because all tow bars and mountings are now E marked this does not allow any modification to them, and reading the MOT testers advise elsewhere it could result in a fail.

[Llanigraham]

I have followed this thread and have several questions which I'm not sure has been answered.

1. Is it cheaper to have the tow bar electrics prep down by manufacturer or retailer?

Tow bar prep is only done at the factory, as a different or additional loom is fitted, plus you get the larger fans.

A dealer is only able to fit the loom, and this requires considerable dismantling of the interior trim of the car. However if you just need the wiring and not the fans because you aren't intending to tow anything heavy there doesn't appear to be a lot in it.

2. Is there any difference between the two installations? ie does the manufacturer installation make use of the traction control system in their instalation and adjust for towing a trailer and the retailer one doesn't?

Both are the same. The dealer fits the hardware, no matter what prep the car has, and then the car is reprogrammed to accept the wiring. This automatically does all those things.

3. I read on this thread the manufacturer installation installs larger fans - does that mean the retailer installer doesn't install larger fans?

Yes. Dealer only fit does not include the larger fans.

Have spoken to the dealer supplying my vehicle who is looking into it - in the meantime if there are any comments............

Some dealers aren't totally clued-up over this, so check what he says.

[mdk1]

See the photos of the bracket fitted earlier.

The tow bar mounting is a thick metal square tubular frame that is tucked up inside the rear bumper.

Also, because all tow bars and mountings are now E marked this does not allow any modification to them, and reading the MOT testers advise elsewhere it could result in a fail.

I saw the pics of the clamp, just thought there might be another way around it, if it was manufactured with a "hole" it would be a lot easier for everyone as it then would be "E" marked, and you would then just be able to "clip on"

[Llanigraham]

I saw the pics of the clamp, just thought there might be another way around it, if it was manufactured with a "hole" it would be a lot easier for everyone as it then would be "E" marked, and you would then just be able to "clip on"

Problem is Mike, the frame is tucked up, well out of the way, which is why the bracket has the sticking down thing so long. Your way the cable would be rubbing on the edge of the bumper hole.

[Sandy.Rogers]

Hi Llanigraham,

Many thanks for your response - I'm seriously considering adding the prep to my order now.

[Llanigraham]

Personally I would go for it anyway, especially if you are going to tow anything more than a little trailer.

[iamgeob]

I asked the same question earlier. Haven't had an answer though!

BACK TO MY ORIGINAL POST. 1) THE BRACKET SUPPLIED ONLY HAS TO COPE WITH AN UNBAKED TRAILER FULLY LOADED TIMES 2, IE.1500KGS. THEN BRING THE VEHICLE TO A STOP WITH THE TRAILER STILL ATTACHED.

2)THE BRACKET ONLY HAS TO LAST LONG ENOUGH ON THE HEAVIEST BRAKED TRAILER TO APPLY THE TRAILER BRAKES BEFORE THE BREAKAWAY CABLE SNAPS.

IN SUMMARY,THIS WHY TWO DIFFERENT METHODS ARE REQUIRED.