Hi folks,

Probably going to start a keen debate here......I see a lot of talk of people looking to remap their nearly brand new vRS's and I cant help but think why?!

In my mind the vRS is plenty quick enough, I think the last thing it really needs is more power. A 0-60 time of under 7 secs (many standard cars have been timed mid to late 6's), 1/4 mile of around 15 secs and a 140 mph top speed is way more than just adequate. The thing can give many more expensive cars a good run for their money and on the road I think it feels even more lively than its figures suggest as a result of having a fast hard revving small capacity engine and being so heavily force inducted.

Three biggest issues I see with remapping the car are as follows: -

* Chassis and brakes - I think whilst it handles and stops plenty well enough the chassis in particular only just about copes with the standard power output. Under hard low gear acceleration the car does want to wheelspin and torquesteer loads and its obvious even in the dry that the ESP and XDS is having a hard time putting the cars power on the road. I have also experienced some brake fade under hard braking. I think a remap would only serve to exagerate these issues and potentially make an otherwise standard car perhaps less drivable.

* Reliability - Appreciate many turbo cars arent all that highly strung and respond well to a remap, the 2.0 TSi engine is the perfect example with 200ps standard output easily boosted to 250+ with a remap and rarely giving any issues. Probably even more the case for a diesel car. I dont think the 1.4 TSi 180 is quite the same. Its being worked very hard in standard form to push 180ps from the 1400cc motor. A remap is naturally going to push it even harder to the peak of its safe limits. Given how relatively complicated and sensitive (to fuel grades etc) the car is in standard form I would be concerned about reliability issues looming in the future, also the extra wear and tear on tyres, brakes and running gear would be of concern.

* Warranty - now I dont care what anyone says a remap (even a dealer installed one) would technically invalidate the cars warranty any non manufacturer sanctioned modification would. I personally wouldnt want to do anything to jepardise the manufactures warranty because you never quite know when somethings going to go wrong with the engine. I certainly dont want to be paying for it if it does go wrong as by and large its the most complex and expensive part of the car.

Each to their own and all that but I personally cant rationalise it; i'd just go and buy a quicker car as soon as the vRS no longer floats my boat, I wouldnt throw money at it to make it potentially less drivable, reliable and expensive to repair when it breaks. Too many risks in my eyes, particularly on such a new car.

What do you guys reckon, be interested to know your thoughts.

There are always people who will or won't do mods on a car for whatever reasons they choose. It is a very personal decision and some have a "Why the hell not" attitude and others have the "well, it will hurt my car/warranty/reliability" attitude. Both attitudes in my opinion are very valid, BUT and it is a big one, I tend to fall into the former of those. The last car I had was fairly highly modded and my 1.4 TSI will be too. As soon as I know that the car is okay as standard (give it a couple of weeks ) I will set about the car with surgical precision to find out where it's limits are and push them even further. There is a saying that I think is valid here....

"Cheap and fast ain't reliable, reliable and cheap ain't fast and fast and reliable ain't cheap"

With every step you take along the modding of a car to make it go faster, you will always come across parts that give up the ghost and need upgrading themselves.....

Go faster - need to stop better - upgrade brakes.

Go faster and stop faster - upgrade suspension

Go faster, stop faster and handles better - engine needs bracing

Go faster, stop faster, handles better, engine braced - person inside needs fastening in - bucket seats.

All the above - drivetrain needs upgrading - SSP clutchpacks.

All the above - car is overheating - upgrade intercooler.

And so it goes on - especially if you are me and don't know when to stop

How far would I go? Well the last car ended up with twin bottles of nitrous in the boot

Edited 3 July, 201114 yr by Hurdy

Here's my thoughts,

Warranty,

if it bothers you don't do it plai and simple. Im a big boy and can make big boy decisions. If it goes wrong, ill get it sorted myself. An example of how simple it is to fix an engine problem. If you were to blow the ko3 tfsi in the octavia vRS you could buy another one for less than £1000.

Why get a remap.

What if you would love the performance of a focus RS, or. 330i bmw etc, but can't ford the running costs, it diesnt suit your situation'or you just can't affrd the car, what about if you were to by a car for less than half the price then spend around £500 on a remap, maybe a further £1000 on supporting mods, then you hVe the performances and handling at a fraction of the cost, in a package that's cheaper'to run, insure and own.

Alternatively what if your into track days, 1/4 mile days, or just really like the challenge of tuning and modifying'a car to personalize and suit it to your needs requirements or image.

Will it damage your car.

Let's talk tuning potential of VAG cars. The most unable engines on the market are all VAG. If you buy a ford, vauxhall or suburu etc, you add more than 60-80hp and you are then pushing the boundries of your internals and needs to start uprating pistons and rods. vAG are famous for over engineering their engines, ie the k03/k04 TFSI, the K03/k04 1.8T, etc etc are L hugely unable to the range of over 150hp-170hp over the standard figures before you need to cinaider uorating internals. VAG big style over engineer their engines and always have done. Its why they have what's not far off the biggest tuning industry and scene.

Another example of this is the dsg. When the dsg6 came out, people made out that the gearbox was mad out of chocolate and wouldn't take tuning, turns out it could take over 500hp without updating anything. The only issues with the dsg were the mechatronics control units which were not effected by remapping hence many guys getting mechatronics units replaced under waranty despite being mapped.

Should guys do it

Who cares really. We all have out thoughts on it, mine are that the fabia was gutless as standard. From my initial test drive I said it was gutless, but in the same'breath said'it would be easily remedied with a remap.

as you know I have mine remapped as i have done'with all'my previous 4 cars all of which we brand new and maooed within the first year. I do it as i love the sensation of a really strong and'progressive mid range. I love having a car that no one expects to be this quick. I love seeing the faces'of people on track when you hightail past them in their big expensive cars with their big engines and high running costs, I love the process and challenge of modifying, and Im obsessed with trackdays.

For what its worth my car matches the times a standard focus RS puts down at the strip. Granted I got my remap free as i was the development mule, but all'i have spent is £60 for the exhaust mod, £80 for an intake and £16 for exhaust heat wrap to kept the heat out the engine. I think that's a bargain for focus rs performance, with 47mpg etc

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What hurdy says is correct. Im now 90% happy with the performance on my car. So now ill be harnesing it and maintaining it better. The remap does open up links I the std vRS even more as you would expect. For heavy track days you need brakes, you need better suspension and of course tyres

I plan on fitting

Eibach springs/bilstein b8 dampers.

R32 front brakes, mk4 GTI rear brakes

Engine mounts

Intercooler

Better tyres, undecided for what though.

Id bet I can get all'the above done'for less than £1800. I don't and wont plan to cut corners at all, but I plan on doing this at a realistic sensible budget, as i want a return. So far im way below that target

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Our Fabia vRS is more than fast enough

It will remain standard

Chaps dont get me wrong this wasnt an anti tuning post; I do admire what certain people particularly Si have done to their cars. Just for me the car is more than quick enough and I think as standard the car has some inherrent flaws in its chassis that more power would simply expose. Also Si a 180hp car will seem gutless when youre used to driving 300hp cars daily, its a bit unfair to term the standard car as gutless because for what it is it really isnt.

Pipsyp, you did say in your original post....

"Probably going to start a keen debate here"

So you knew what was coming

I didn't take your OP as anti-tuning either. I think the VRS/Polo GTI/Seat Boc all have a pretty good balance as stock and are perfect cars for people who want a relatively swift, cheap (ish), petrol efficient car that is relatively comfortable compared with the likes of the French fast clutter out there.

Edited 4 July, 201114 yr by Hurdy

When I test drove the vRS for the third time (First time was wet, second time was to the roundabout and back ) I took it for a good half hour spin and thought it had plenty of power for what it was. Only thing faster I've driven was a Mazda 3 MPS which was 260bhp and was very quick. I can't talk much more about my experience of it since I don't get it until September to really test it.

As for modifying I've got no problems with people modifying just as long as it's done well and done because it improves the car and not because they can. So no halfords stickers and bodykits. Everytime I see one of Si's threads I'm excited to see what he's done next. As he's already said if something breaks he's ready for it and willing to replace it himself. I'm going to hold off until the warranty is out mainly because if something did go wrong I may not be able to afford to fix it and also because in 3 years time when the warranty is up there will be loads of performance mods for the car and a quick trip up to Shark and it will be like having a new car all over again.

Good topic IMO with so good views on this

I myself am looking into remapping, although I find the car very quick already I feel that a little more power would be nice, always wanted a sub 6 secs 0-60 and sub 15sec 1/4 mile car. I am also a little concerned about the warranty so that really is the only thing holding me back at the moment.

Until someone breaks one from tuning it we won't know the limits! Janner sy is doing this for us so sit back and wait

I probably wwon't remap mine, happy enough with 180bhp, fastest car i've owned so far, well, the one with the most BHP

Like pipsyp says, if I want a faster stock car I will await the next Fabia vRS or a Octavia vRS and see which one suits me best!

What do you guys reckon, be interested to know your thoughts.

I reckon like Janner do on some parts, I enjoy the extra power out off the engine.

I do like the image off the car, make it one hell off an underdog in the 1/8 and 1/4 mile dragrace.

Skoda isn't really a well-known name in Sweden, sure they do sell cars but they got the image off a Volvo really...

Boring, safe and reliable.

So for me, the tuning is well worth it!

When I actually testdrove the Skoda, I felt the potential off the car.

I already knew from day one that I wouldn't be happy with the power. After all, I'm a torque-junkie!

After some tuning I'm feeling that I am getting there, but I am on no ways done with it.

And as the saying goes: More power comes with more responsibility.

I already got the brakes ordered (in some van in GB probably) and I'm still thinking off which coils I should be going for.

And said again: the software-update is a really nice upgrade, totally worth every penny!

Until someone breaks one from tuning it we won't know the limits! Janner sy is doing this for us so sit back and wait

Pfft, even if I'm not from GB I still count ey? If it haven't broken down, it isn't tuned enough xD!

Edited 4 July, 201114 yr by Confide

Chaps dont get me wrong this wasnt an anti tuning post; I do admire what certain people particularly Si have done to their cars. Just for me the car is more than quick enough and I think as standard the car has some inherrent flaws in its chassis that more power would simply expose. Also Si a 180hp car will seem gutless when youre used to driving 300hp cars daily, its a bit unfair to term the standard car as gutless because for what it is it really isnt.

Its a friendly debate mate. Both sides of the story are valid, and theres no right/wrong answer, just opinions.

As both you and I said, the car has inherent flaws as standard, I knew this when. I bought it, and i knew more power would hughlight them more. but I know from modding in the last how easy they are to improve on, I looked into modding ability, tuning ability etc before buying, to make sure there was stuff in the pipeline to do what I wanted. If the wasn't anything I would never have bought it as i wouldn't have been happy with the car.

Bear in mind me saying the car is gutless is just my opinion. I stand by it as that's my thoughts. Performance is all relative. If your used to power then you tend to think like this if this is your quickest car, then yiu will think its quick. But again, I knew this was easily remedied which is why I bought the car.

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Until someone breaks one from tuning it we won't know the limits! Janner sy is doing this for us so sit back and wait

!

If something fails on the car due to tuning, I wouldn't fit the standard part again, id be looking at fitting an updated part. I do hope nothing brakes, and im sensible enough not to go figure hunting. I wouldnt worry about me finding the weakness lol. Id bet you hurdy will be running much more power than me within'no time. He's an addict lol.

I don't want to do anything to my exterior, I like things to look standard, I don't want any extra noise, or a crash ride. Im into function. Its got to do what I want it to do without the drawbacks of tuning.

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is a good debate this, Si have the upmost respect for you for making the vRS faster and I enjoy reading your updates mate, just for me the cars ideal.....big thing for me is that the cars on a PCP with the idea its likely to be thrown back at a garage at the end of its term....dont think tuning the ass out of it will do me any favours with Skoda finance or a main dealer :-)

I must admit the more time I spend in the engine bay the more I'm left with questions on some of the choices Skoda/Vag made when fitting this engine into the VRS.

I'm interested to see what sort of airflow modifications come about as while I'm not going to be rushing into modifying I might consider getting rid of the pathetic stock intake system. Getting fed up having to reattach it after a bumpy drive.

I am a little concerned by people experiencing torque steer I've not run into that yet. I'll put that down to just not having pushed it far enough.

I've experienced torque steer in the 1.2TSI

I recall on my test drive of the vRS, it would tug the wheel a little on full power, nothing to get alarmed over though.

A Renault 21 Turbo on the other hand. Wow, that had torque steer! If you went for full throttle in 1st, 2nd or 3rd gear, you flipped a coin to determine which hedge you would end up in

Edited 4 July, 201114 yr by Mike Wrightson

If something fails on the car due to tuning, I wouldn't fit the standard part again, id be looking at fitting an updated part. I do hope nothing brakes, and im sensible enough not to go figure hunting. I wouldnt worry about me finding the weakness lol. Id bet you hurdy will be running much more power than me within'no time. He's an addict lol.

I don't want to do anything to my exterior, I like things to look standard, I don't want any extra noise, or a crash ride. Im into function. Its got to do what I want it to do without the drawbacks of tuning.

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Don't know what you mean!

Its a friendly debate mate. Both sides of the story are valid, and theres no right/wrong answer, just opinions.

What Janner says above is what these forums are all about. No right, no wrong answers.

As for the subject I want to get year one out the way then may consider but I bought a new car for piece of mind and am very mindful of ruining the warranty. Maybe when a few are done and problems/no problems report it will be time to maybe step in then.

Does sound appealing though to get 210 bhp.....

The vRS blows most performance cars off the road, why on earth would you want to remap it??

My opinion is....if you are planning on remapping, why don't you buy a car with that performance already? Doesn't make any sense to me remapping something that the manufacturers have spent years researching and testing. The car has been designed like that for a reason!

The vRS blows most performance cars off the road, why on earth would you want to remap it??

My opinion is....if you are planning on remapping, why don't you buy a car with that performance already? Doesn't make any sense to me remapping something that the manufacturers have spent years researching and testing. The car has been designed like that for a reason!

Its been designed to fit into the companies overall sales/marketing strategy and to make maximum profit, not to be the fastest it can be. Wouldn't make sense for VAGs cheapest performance car to be signifacntly faster out of the box than say a Golf GTI would it?!

Remapping unleashes some more of the engines true potential as opposed to whats set-up as standard by the manafacturer.

I disagree that the vRS 'blows most performance cars off the road'... at least mine doesn't!

Personally I won't be going for a remap just yet, in another 12months tho 210Bhp 'ere I come....

The vRS blows most performance cars off the road, why on earth would you want to remap it??

My opinion is....if you are planning on remapping, why don't you buy a car with that performance already? Doesn't make any sense to me remapping something that the manufacturers have spent years researching and testing. The car has been designed like that for a reason!

Lol, no it doesn't.

A focus rs will cost upwards of £27000. My fabia can keep up with them no worries, yet cost £13900. Mode so far £140 (got remap for free so could add £400 to that) if I spend another £1500 on the chassis ill match it on track as well. That's why I modify.

Another example Leon cupra 240hp is around 2 grand dearer than the Leon Fr 200hp. But for £400 you can make your car perform identical, if not better

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From what I've seen the tuning maps only seem to improve the curves from the point where the turbo kicks in...I think if the VRS needs anything, it's low down torque..'tends to feel a little gutless below 3.500rpm in my opinion. If anybody knows of a remap that raises the supercharger boost/torque I'd be interested?

I'm amazed at people thinking the chasis needs work with the standard output...I think it's well up to the task..the turn in is really crisp and the ride/handling combination is great...my VRS (CRD) Octavia feels like a whale in comparison!

I think the biggest failing with the car is the steering feel...it needs the assistance backing off IMHO, but I guess everything is going to feel a little numb after my VX.

As an only car I think the Fabia VRS is a great all-rounder, it reminds me of my old 205 GTI 1.9...fun but practical. If I had to be left with one of our cars this would be my choice...the fact that it was the cheapest makes it something of a bargain.

Can't you adjust the weight of the steering using VAGCOM like the Mk1? That may help

From what I've seen the tuning maps only seem to improve the curves from the point where the turbo kicks in...I think if the VRS needs anything, it's low down torque..'tends to feel a little gutless below 3.500rpm in my opinion. If anybody knows of a remap that raises the supercharger boost/torque I'd be interested?

You couldn't actually achieve that though with just a map change could you? I'd have thought you'd need to put on a smaller pulley on the supercharger? :wonder:

You couldn't actually achieve that though with just a map change could you? I'd have thought you'd need to put on a smaller pulley on the supercharger? :wonder:

thats right, its mechanical, you'd need to change the gearing in the supercharger...