FAO All the experts who claim cant get over 220 bhp on standard nozzles..

[fabdavrav]

That's fine and dandy, but the inlet manifolds the same, and so are the cylinder heads.

We've both got massive fmic's. And you'll know, that Intercoolers don't add power, they reduce heatsoak.

So you're saying that the only difference between your engine and the OP/WH car is that you DON'T have an intercooler??

Please look and read the whole of the wiki link in my previous post on "Intercoolers"........they are not just a heat soak.........by cooling the air they lower the internal temps of the engine....this affects the combustion process.....and thus the amount of energy/power produced......even on Diesel engines!

[BossFox]

Plus the Jabba exhaust manifold, larger MAF, FMIC, anti-surge system (whatever that is), different pipework (can't see what's going on in your Pistonheads pics, but the feed from the slam panel doesn't seem to go to your airbox as it should). So it's a bit more than just a bigger turbo IMO?

Unless you don't strictly count the above items as "engine mods", I suppose it depends how you define it. But I would say they are...

All the Jabbasport kit parts are bolt on.

The internals, head and block (what I call the engine) don't need to be changed.

So clearly all the talk, talk, talk about a standard injector only having enough fuel for 230bhp maximum doesn't take into account something special that Jabbasport work into the stage 3 conversion.

Something they are unlikely to share so everyone can start to sell kits out of the garage at the bottom of their garden.

And as said above, you can add meth/water injection when you want.

Mine is switchable so it's just used for Santa Pod, or annoying expensive powerful cars.

To me there is one important thing that has come out of this...

The 230bhp+ on standard injectors that many experts have say is not possible.

Clearly someone has found a way, so stop harping on about it.

[Friggerpants]

So you're saying that the only difference between your engine and the OP/WH car is that you DON'T have an intercooler??

Please look and read the whole of the wiki link in my previous post on "Intercoolers"........they are not just a heat soak.........by cooling the air they lower the internal temps of the engine....this affects the combustion process.....and thus the amount of energy/power produced......even on Diesel engines!

You will not get much lower than ambient temperature with an Intercooler. With an Intercooler, you're cooilong the air down, you're not adding power, you're actually just losing less, due to heatsoak.

The only way to add power in traditional sense is to cool the air going into the engine, cooler than ambient, I.E ice in dragsters coolers. On a turbo car, you're just negating heatsoak, with an Intercooler.

For instance, I may lose 30bhp through heatsoak on Intercooler x and I lose 20bhp though heatsoak on Intercooler Y. This Will give a 10bhp increase on a dyno, but really you're just losing less power.

But I don't know how you got on this topic, I have a big fmic, as does OP. not gonna be much difference there.

Edited 2 November, 2011 by Friggerpants

[fabdavrav]

But I don't know how you got on this topic, I have a big fmic, as does OP. not gonna be much difference there.

In your previous post you stated that various things where the same......intimating that the only differnce was the intercooler!!

QUOTE

You will not get much lower than ambient temperature with an Intercooler. With an Intercooler, you're cooilong the air down, you're not adding power, you're actually just losing less, due to heatsoak.

END QUOTE

Thats it then.......you understand......you could be losing more power as you don't have an intercooler unlike the OP/WH car.

If you are that worried why the #### don't you take your car down to Jabba and get them to sort it and pay the bill at the end???!!!

EDIT .......wrong info! Sorry!

I know why!!!.....are you the same "Darkside Developments" as this lot??

http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/

And is this your car in question????

http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/skoda-fabia-vrs-1-9-8v-asz/

If so then you arn't as you claim to be.........."As we only own and work with TDI's, you can be assured that you are dealing with experts who have an in depth knowledge and understanding of all things diesel."

AND KNOW WONDER JABBA ARE NOT LETTING OUT THE SECRET FOR THE COMPETION TO STEAL!!!!

Edited 2 November, 2011 by fabdavrav

[KenONeill]

Would anyone at Shark care to explain (to someone who actually works with data smoothing algorithms) why their dyno output has a smoother flywheel power line than it does wheel power line? If you're applying the same correction figure to each data point, you shouldn't be smoothing the data, and if you're discarding data points, how do we know that's all the correction software is doing?

[shark_90]

Would anyone at Shark care to explain (to someone who actually works with data smoothing algorithms) why their dyno output has a smoother flywheel power line than it does wheel power line? If you're applying the same correction figure to each data point, you shouldn't be smoothing the data, and if you're discarding data points, how do we know that's all the correction software is doing?

I'm quite sure no one at Shark can explain that for you, as we don't make the dyno or the software, however could you please point out what you're referring to?

[softscoop]

I'm quite sure no one at Shark can explain that for you, as we don't make the dyno or the software, however could you please point out what you're referring to?

I think he means the line on the WHP looks quite jittery, whereas the corrected line is a smoother curve.

[shark_90]

I think he means the line on the WHP looks quite jittery, whereas the corrected line is a smoother curve.

Oh I see. Er, I don't know. I'd suggest asking Bapro, given that both the WHP and a smoother corrected line are both present, I don't see what difference it makes. It's quite clear to see that they match albeit smoother and every graph we print has the WHP and coastdown data on it.

[Friggerpants]

In your previous post you stated that various things where the same......intimating that the only differnce was the intercooler!!

QUOTE

You will not get much lower than ambient temperature with an Intercooler. With an Intercooler, you're cooilong the air down, you're not adding power, you're actually just losing less, due to heatsoak.

END QUOTE

Thats it then.......you understand......you could be losing more power as you don't have an intercooler unlike the OP/WH car.

If you are that worried why the #### don't you take your car down to Jabba and get them to sort it and pay the bill at the end???!!!

I know why!!!.....are you the same "Darkside Developments" as this lot??

http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/

And is this your car in question????

http://www.darksidedevelopments.co.uk/skoda-fabia-vrs-1-9-8v-asz/

If so then you arn't as you claim to be.........."As we only own and work with TDI's, you can be assured that you are dealing with experts who have an in depth knowledge and understanding of all things diesel."

AND KNOW WONDER JABBA ARE NOT LETTING OUT THE SECRET FOR THE COMPETION TO STEAL!!!!

I very much doubt I'm losing 30bhp, because of an intercooler, 1-2bhp tops.

I don't work for Darkside at all. I work for Rolls-Royce, on massive turbo jets, and work with Fluid dynamics on a regular basis, I know what an intercooler does, how it works, and how to change the charetristics on it. It's my job. So I guess I'm more of an expert than you.

I try and help answer questions presented to them, and show my car off, as my car is the demo 1.9 Polo/Ibiza/Fabia as they're a good bunch of lads with very good products. Slag them off all you like, you're not the target audience anyway :-).

[fabdavrav]

I very much doubt I'm losing 30bhp, because of an intercooler, 1-2bhp tops.

I don't work for Darkside at all. I work for Rolls-Royce, on massive turbo jets, and work with Fluid dynamics on a regular basis, I know what an intercooler does, how it works, and how to change the charetristics on it. It's my job. So I guess I'm more of an expert than you.

I try and help answer questions presented to them, and show my car off, as my car is the demo 1.9 Polo/Ibiza/Fabia as they're a good bunch of lads with very good products. Slag them off all you like, you're not the target audience anyway :-).

Having "darkside developments" as your sig........gave me the impression that you do work for them. Also your insisance of the other bits of information from Jabba etc lead me to belive that you were them and as they wouldn't release the info lead me further to speculate on the info provided that you do work for them and they knew it. Also this is why I quoted the website as in context it seemed appropriate!

So I retract that and edit the above bits of info and stand corrected!

I don't call myself an expert......but you don't seem to grasp the basics as has been said by others re the differences between your engine and the OP/WH car....which will lead to you having the 30bhp? less than the OP/WH car.

As for the rest of it I'm out........as I have said before take it to Jabba and pay the bill...then you will have the 260bhp that you seek!!

[faboka vrs]

Let's not go down this dirty route of slagging tuners off. I was finding this thread interesting until then :( let's keep to the interesting bit.

So where guessing Jabba use similar fueling hardware/software to others. They also use a bigger turbo like others but turbo spec could be different, custom manifold or 8v TDI?, bigger intercooler. Everything else stock?

So the key is the hardware?

[shark_tech]

Jabbasport file runs 100% standard SOI map, and almost 80 degree duration request. Something doesn't add up with this.

[shark_tech]

Would anyone at Shark care to explain (to someone who actually works with data smoothing algorithms) why their dyno output has a smoother flywheel power line than it does wheel power line? If you're applying the same correction figure to each data point, you shouldn't be smoothing the data, and if you're discarding data points, how do we know that's all the correction software is doing?

Its because the WHP graph is way more accurate than it should be, showing also wheel inbalance and other non-relevant things. Its filtered to half (I think it was half, but thereabouts) of resolution, no "correction figures" applied there.

Check out graphs from Maha, Dynocom, Mustang, Land&Sea, TAT, and actually, just about every dyno manufacturer I can think of, and you can see every manufacturer uses their own level of filtration of the curve.

[faboka vrs]

Jabbasport file runs 100% standard SOI map, and almost 80 degree duration request. Something doesn't add up with this.

So it's still injecting fuel around 55 degrees past TDC. Wow!

How does it look smoke and why doesn't the turbo and valves melt with high EGT?

[wilsy7]

Possibly a reason for the water cooled turbo?

[Guest BigJase88]

Better off with race nozzles me thinks

[E11HES]

so much anger from fabdavrav

[xa0sx]

What I'd like to know is if more power can be obtained out of Jabba's stage 3 cars if they had uprated nozzles? If so, why don't they offer this as clearly most stage 3 owners wouldn't mind spending an extra £800.

[BossFox]

What I'd like to know is if more power can be obtained out of Jabba's stage 3 cars if they had uprated nozzles? If so, why don't they offer this as clearly most stage 3 owners wouldn't mind spending an extra £800.

I believe the turbo is rated up to a certain level/bhp.

The conversion seems to be quite reliable, so maybe they don't want to push the boundaries too far and have vehicles coming back in.

So there is a safety margin as they don't know how abused the car is going to be.

I only had one issue and that was down to a manufacturing defect in a pipe that split. All sorted out for free under Jabbasport warranty.

Other than that mine has done 14 runs at Santa Pod and a couple of Brands Hatch days and still feels A1.

In all honesty, other than it smoking a bit under high power I really like it as a package.

More power doesn't really interest me that much, but reducing the smoke when on track days would. You get the evil eye off the marshalls.

[faboka vrs]

Larger injectors would allow for a shorter duration which will be less fuel being injected on the downward stroke. I believe this should reduce the smoke levels and also lower EGT.

[wilsy7]

I'd be very interested to what your car could do boss fox with uprated nOzzles

[warwick hunt]

as prevously stated..if it done anything why wudnt jabba fit them..

Edited 3 November, 2011 by warwick hunt

[wilsy7]

True. But with the existing set up already would it be a fairly safe and easy way of adding power?

[BossFox]

True. But with the existing set up already would it be a fairly safe and easy way of adding power?

I don't believe so, because the whole set up is designed to make the power it does. (which we now know it does!)

By adding more power you'll probably be running the kit over what it's designed to, so you'll compromise reliability.

[wilsy7]

I don't believe so, because the whole set up is designed to make the power it does. (which we now know it does!)

By adding more power you'll probably be running the kit over what it's designed to, so you'll compromise reliability.

Good point, didn't think of the kit limitations :S I'm sure they could break the magical 300 if they wanted to