FMIC Kit - Group Buy - £200 Delivered

[L33 LHO]

I dont know when i will fit mine, most prob take it somewhere. I want to know if you can get rid of the black bottom grill so you can have the cooler showing.

[Tiz.H]

I wont be much use for that as i'll be fitting mine on an ibiza and might paint it black so it cant be seen.

Having it showing is all well and good for looks BUT it leaves it totally open without any protection in such a vunerable place

oh and meant to say dude as your only down the road I'd be up for fitting yours once I've done mine if you wanted?

Edited 19 December, 2011 by Tiz.H

[L33 LHO]

yeah sure mate, would be nice to have a natter too

[Robbie_95]

This group buy is now disgustingly tempting...

Christmas shopping this week, see what i have left Looks like the family are getting socks this year!

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

yeah im still down to be in the group buy matey. I was just going to try and jump the gun to try and prove to people these will be fine to use. But don't really know why im fighting for the cause so much. Its a complete bolt on intercooler kit for £200 its an absolute bargain in a world of over priced seat sport coolers and forge coolers.

I`m not slating it, as i`v said, intercoolers are not an area that I have much knowledge of, where as you (sound) like you know what you are on about. So i`m only asking to understand them a little better.

As you say bigger isnt always better, but an intercooler must be a certain size to be able to cope with XXX amount of power correct? So why would forge/pro alloy/etc etc make their units so big? I mean, if a kit this size will do 350bhp, the forge unit is way oversized in that case, they could have saved half the raw materials and made masses of extra profit and made it take up less room. What does it gain for being so much bigger and costing them more to make?

Its the same for many standard coolers, Focus ST, S3 etc, all much bigger than that cooler, why? And at a certain point of tune, these cars are restricted by the cooler, like the ST iirc to crack much more than 300bhp needs a uprated one, but the standard one is slightly bigger than this ebay kit that can make 350bhp? So if they are all the same quality, and the size of the standard ST one is bigger, it should be capable of what 400? 450bhp?

Very confusing

I hope this is top notch, after all, the more it saves people the more money to spend on other stuff!

[Robbie_95]

I`m not slating it, as i`v said, intercoolers are not an area that I have much knowledge of, where as you (sound) like you know what you are on about. So i`m only asking to understand them a little better.

As you say bigger isnt always better, but an intercooler must be a certain size to be able to cope with XXX amount of power correct? So why would forge/pro alloy/etc etc make their units so big? I mean, if a kit this size will do 350bhp, the forge unit is way oversized in that case, they could have saved half the raw materials and made masses of extra profit and made it take up less room. What does it gain for being so much bigger and costing them more to make?

Its the same for many standard coolers, Focus ST, S3 etc, all much bigger than that cooler, why? And at a certain point of tune, these cars are restricted by the cooler, like the ST iirc to crack much more than 300bhp needs a uprated one, but the standard one is slightly bigger than this ebay kit that can make 350bhp? So if they are all the same quality, and the size of the standard ST one is bigger, it should be capable of what 400? 450bhp?

Very confusing

I hope this is top notch, after all, the more it saves people the more money to spend on other stuff!

I think the forge one is quite thin, id imagine if the intercooler is deep it will provide better cooling as more air will pass through the fins/core for longer i.e more surface area where it counts. In motocross a racing radiator isn't necessarily bigger in length but is double the size in depth. 350bhp does sound far fetched, but its still double the size or standard...

[Huxley vRS]

I think most of the reason standard fmic don't hold much power is because what tiz touched on earlier which is the side tanks and standard pipe work. All alloy ic with decent side tanks and decent pipe work should hold more power than say a equally sized standard fmic and pipe work because it's stronger

[L33 LHO]

I take it nothing is really going to happen till after xmas/new year? (Which is fine for me)

[Tiz.H]

Also its worth remembering that these "tuning" companies are in business because their products sell. So its not always developed to be the best. Its developed to do the job and APPEAL. 80% of people who buy the parts assume bigger IS better so its clever marketing.. well actually its quite simple you are giving your customers what they want. I'm not saying ALL tuning companies like this but its important to understand the corporate led world that we live in. If you take a look at proper race cars some of their parts look quite "ugly" and aren't as you'd expect as they are developed to do a job rather than appeal and sell its not often you see massive shiny intercoolers on big spec turbo race cars.

A very important thing people forget when buying these intercooler is ducting. Properly ducting your intercooler so air is forced INTO it rather than around it is very important as air will always take the path of least resistance which is often around the intercooler than through. Take a look at the intercoolers being devloped for the focus RS they are featuring alloy ducting welded to the intercoolers. I will be building carbon fibre ducting for my intercooler but thats only because i have some laying around. With my skyline I have the bumper fitting very tight to the intercooler with rubber strips around so it seals almost perfectly to the bumper.

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

I think most of the reason standard fmic don't hold much power is because what tiz touched on earlier which is the side tanks and standard pipe work. All alloy ic with decent side tanks and decent pipe work should hold more power than say a equally sized standard fmic and pipe work because it's stronger

What's wrong with the side tanks? (ST/S3 I'm talking not Fabia obviously). When these are upgraded they they use standard pipe work iirc (on the st at least) so I can't be them.

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

Also its worth remembering that these "tuning" companies are in business because their products sell. So its not always developed to be the best. Its developed to do the job and APPEAL. 80% of people who buy the parts assume bigger IS better so its clever marketing.. well actually its quite simple you are giving your customers what they want. I'm not saying ALL tuning companies like this but its important to understand the corporate led world that we live in. If you take a look at proper race cars some of their parts look quite "ugly" and aren't as you'd expect as they are developed to do a job rather than appeal and sell its not often you see massive shiny intercoolers on big spec turbo race cars.

So why are standard intercoolers so over sized? An S3 cooler is much bigger than this, it only runs 260bhp so what's the point? It's costing them more to make.

Again these standard coolers are restrictive way before the power they should make using your theory. They are being upgraded, not moved, so I don't understand how the airflow is any different.

[Tiz.H]

have you seen how "thick" the standard intercoolers are? They are really thin with crimped on plastic end tanks. Crimped plastic end tanks don't take a lot of high pressure abuse. Cast back to the old skool tuning of renault 5 gtt's where they "strap" the intercooler with big jubilee clips to a certain pressure then see what size intercoolers they move to for good power and high pressures. Trust me those thin larger intercoolers on the cars you mentioned cost a LOT less to make than a smaller thicker intercooler

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

Ok, so all the other aftermarket coolers are oversize to make them look good, and standard coolers are all wafer thin with plastic end tanks?

I'll keep an eye on this, once someone runs decent power on it I'll upgrade! Cheers

[Tiz.H]

I think your generalising and seem to be arguing for arguments sake. The bottom line is this is a cheap alternative front mount intercooler for those who want to upgrade but dont want to spend the daft money on forge and seat sport alternatives. Tbh the power levels we are dealing with here are pretty low end in the tuning world and i think people get a bit hung on on having to have what they think is the "best" not what will cater for their needs.

Anyway all this moaning from somebody who has "Ebay Resistor Mod" in his list of upgrades?

Edited 20 December, 2011 by Tiz.H

[L33 LHO]

Anyway all this moaning from somebody who has "Ebay Resistor Mod" in his list of upgrades?

[chrisw880]

Anyway all this moaning from somebody who has "Ebay Resistor Mod" in his list of upgrades?

Think the 'resistor mod' will be down to Matt running led sidelights as he might have the bulb warning light on his dash

Edited 20 December, 2011 by chrisw880

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

I think your generalising and seem to be arguing for arguments sake.

Anyway all this moaning from somebody who has "Ebay Resistor Mod" in his list of upgrades?

I'm not arguing? I'm waiting to see how they run, I'm bring serious, if they can cope with the power that'll save me weight! I wasn't moaning either, just asking questions, you don't have to answer them I wouldn't be offended.

If you think I'd run a eBay resistor mod with a hybrid turbo and the other listed mods then your not as clever as you seemed so far.

[XLBaconDoubleCheese]

Anyway all this moaning from somebody who has "Ebay Resistor Mod" in his list of upgrades?

You've possibly not heard of a "joke"? :-/

[L33 LHO]

Yeah this ******* thread is becoming a joke

Edited 20 December, 2011 by leehowling

[Huxley vRS]

Lets leave the arguments at that lads.

I am sure everyone who comes in on the group buy will be more than happy and hopefully the figures also show a great improvement over standard.

So just four more names guys.

[vindaloo]

Ok, so all the other aftermarket coolers are oversize to make them look good, and standard coolers are all wafer thin with plastic end tanks?

I'll keep an eye on this, once someone runs decent power on it I'll upgrade! Cheers

More likely (generalisation)...

Cheap aftermarket coolers are oversized and over polished... to make them look good... Also they're oversized (?) as they aren't developed carefully or built to extract the last percentage of performance. If they're well built they'll take a bit of boost and won't blow apart. What they really do though is take advantage of 1st dibs on the colder air at the front of the car.

Standard intercoolers do tend towards thin and fragile... In the context of tuning a way beyond a simple remap. They're not built to take clutch/gearbox bashing levels of boost/torque because they don't need to be. It's not cost effective.

I've looked on the web for a good intercooler wiki... I can't find a decently technical one. Basically it comes down to 2/3 things with the cooler itself. Length and number and type of tubes used (are they internally finned or "simple" tubes?). End tanks that guide or split air if needed to optimise flow through the whole cooler, rather than prefer a simplest path. And how the tubes terminate within the end tanks. Ideally a nicely rounded form would be used rather than a simple protruding "end".

Sorting all of the above out on an installation by installation basis would cost loads. And you'd probably only see efficiency gains when the system is under high load. Important in a racing car, but not going to be noticable in a road car. Better (cost vs gains) to plonk a much larger, tougher cooler in the nose and take whatever gains are available.

J.

[vRS-Carl]

Hey, I bought and installed one of these...

Seller sent out incorrect piping... it involves modifying the current intercooler pipe system (you have to cut clamps off) to fit the new one. Ended up having to buy some alternate silicon hoses to be able to fit it in the end. Seller doesn't seem to answer his phone... Just rings and goes to voice mail all the time.

However it is on and it is working with the addition of a few alternate hoses. I've got some pictures of the setup if anyone wants to have a look. Personally though the kits nothing special

Currently running around 185bhp and 299lb/ft torque with no issues

Edited 21 December, 2011 by vRS-Carl

[Tiz.H]

i thought it looked pretty obvious you need to modify the standard piping from the ebay pictures. Can you elaborate on why you felt the hoses were incorrect?

[Huxley vRS]

Pictures would be great too

[vRS-Carl]

http://www.project-cp.com/vRS/Fmic2.jpg

The black pipe in the picture is one I had to source from else where as well as one other...

The red pipe on the floor (Bottom left) was the provided one, the diameter of the pipe was 45mm instead of 55mm meaning there was no hope in hell of it fitting over the intercooler or anywhere else in the pipework. 55mm was a tight stretch as it was (So it should be). I ended up having to buy two new matching pipes for the front and another right angle which was also the wrong size. As of yet i've not had a response from the seller.

http://www.project-cp.com/vRS/Fmic3.jpg

Once fitted though no problems. If anyone wants to know the exact pipework they need i'm sure i've got pictures of most of it.

Just gotta cut my grills to fit round the pipes now

http://www.project-cp.com/vRS/vrsintercooler.jpg

Edited 21 December, 2011 by vRS-Carl