Had my winter tyres fitted last week by Kwik Fit (can feel a barrage of mockery already). However they were ridiculously cheap, so decided to go ahead against my better judgement.

225/18/40 Continental Wintercontacts TS830P's on my 2011 vRS. All 4 were fitted and seemed a good job, I had made it clear my wheels were in perfect condition and in fairness thats how they were returned (unlike many places I have used),

Anyway, this Friday we headed up to Newcastle to meets friends and a few drinks. As soon as I headed up the A63, first time past 40mph with these tyres, the dreaded shakes started. Between 60-80mph it was undriveable, hard shakes and pulling to the left with an ear popping reverberation. Being too late to get it sorted, we drove up to Newcastle at 59mph! not a great experience!

Next day I took it to Kwik Fit in Newcastle, explained above and left car with him for 4 hours. When we returned he said the tracking was out and wheels needed balancing, which he had fixed.

Next stop was friends in Newton Aycliffle, just off the A1 on the way home to Hull. Set off and when we joined the A1, I hit 60mph and wobble! Not as bad but feedback through the steering wheel and slightly through the car itself.

It was too late to turn around so I thought I would get it sorted back in Hull. However we happened to drive right past a Kwik Fit in Newton Aycliffe. As it was only 1 mile from our friends it was ideal, and so left it for 2 hours with them.

On return the guy explained that the wheels were way out of balance, had 45g on each wheel, which he had removed and left just 5g on the rear offside. He also said they couldnt guarantee past 70 mph and that with these tyres being winters it may be a 'feature' of them. I did explain that at 74mph on my speedo i was actualy only about 70mph in real terms.

Anyway off I went, it was getting late. By now you know where this is going! Yup, the dread wheel judder was there at 70 mph, Again a slight improvement on previous 2 attempts, but doesnt feel good between 70-80mph or when turning at speeds over 50mph (it gets worse).

So I'm now back home and wondering how three different wheel balancing experience can produce three very different results. All three garages disagreed with each other, and all 3 gave different driving experiences after applying different weights to differents wheels!

I can only assume it is a black art.

I have fired off an email to KF customer services today, I await their reply.

I know there could possibly be a problem with the tyres themselves, but my confidence with the different results makes me believe otherwise.

Normally I would just go somewhere else to get a £10 balance done properly, but am afraid they may wash their hands of it if I do.

Any suggestions (other than not to use KF)?

If they are having to put 45g on and it still isn't right i would suggest that the tyres are faulty. I have Aavon winter tyres and no wobbles at all above 70mph.

If they are having to put 45g on and it still isn't right i would suggest that the tyres are faulty. I have Aavon winter tyres and no wobbles at all above 70mph.

I agree, but man number 3 said that they were balanced wrong and ripped them alll off! Just 5g on OSR at the moment.

I know from my own expirience that to balance 18 and above require special attention. Also depend on type of weights used. I bet since we deal with 18s those are fency looking wheels so they used stick on weights. I noticed few KW places dont have programs to balance them in certain conditions. I had once similar problems with 17s at their place. I actualy asked "techie" if I can do it myself - it was a laugh but we got to solution

Did you actually paid for tracking as well as balancing at 2nd place when they said it needs so? If so I hope they will pay this back.

Other hand I would suggest to watch what they do next time you visit their place. Few "techies" tend to balance wheels and stick weights every place machine suggest where it needs them moving about and rebalance them even when you installed LAST weight. I suggest watch their hands while they do it.

...or just visit place where people know what they do.

Good luck.

Sounds like there was something seriously wrong. To have 3 different balancings in as many days is ludicrous. I wonder if they actually stuck the weights on correctly, maybe some came off throwing it out again (still KW's fault).

Never had the judder problem before but then not had wheels over 16 either.

The previous owner of my car had tracking and "ditchfinder" tyres fitted to the front axle at kwikfit

not only did they use rim-weights on alloy wheels but the tracking also means the steering wheel is almost 45degrees off center!

bunch of monkeys!!!!

The previous owner of my car had tracking and "ditchfinder" tyres fitted to the front axle at kwikfit

not only did they use rim-weights on alloy wheels but the tracking also means the steering wheel is almost 45degrees off center!

bunch of monkeys!!!!

No excuse for fitting 'ditchfinders', but these are rated as one of the best sets of winter tyres out there!

Normally use other garages, but these were nearly £200 cheaper than anywhere else for the four tyres fitted (but not balanced!)

I work next to a tyre garage and the amount of weights that fall off cars when they drive away is unreal.

I can walk down they're bit of road where cars exit and there's weights every where. Stick on weights are useless unless the rim has been cleaned for the adhesive to stick.

Has your weights been flying off? Were your wheels wet and did they dry & clean them first where the weights were to be fitted?

I work next to a tyre garage and the amount of weights that fall off cars when they drive away is unreal.

I can walk down they're bit of road where cars exit and there's weights every where. Stick on weights are useless unless the rim has been cleaned for the adhesive to stick.

Has your weights been flying off? Were your wheels wet and did they dry & clean them first where the weights were to be fitted?

Wheels were dry in the main, certainly at the last two attempts. Not sure about the first.

Problem is I had to leave the car with them on each occasion, as the wait was at least 1-2 hours to get seen. So I haven't seen them actually do any of the jobs.

I do know that at garage two they fitted 45g on three of the wheels, so if any had come off, god only knows what were on to start with!

Also, the last garage only put 5g on one wheel (OSR), the other three now have no weights on at all. So I know each garage has completed the balancing VERY differently to each other from the outset.

When I go back I will ask what was on the wheels before & what they put on.

Depending on what KF say and do, I would like to firstly like to be able to take it to an independent (with KF's approval). If that doesn't solve it get Continental involved as their customer service is meant to excellent.

When my wheels were last balanced it was wet and full of brake dust.

They just wire brushed the area where the weight was supposed to go, so I asked them to stop a minute.

I run round to my unit and got a load of blue roll and spirit wipe.

I dryed the wheel and gave it a good clean with the spirit wipe.

The weight then stuck on really good and is still there.

My money would be on badly preped area for weight to stick to.

I'd be giving up up kwik fit and going to another local independent who specialise in tyres and not a general place that also does exhausts, brakes etc.

Having had one to many bad experiences in the past I would never go back to one of their places (Kwik Fit).

You mention that the second attempt involved a tracking adjustment, that was completely unnecessary especially if the car was handling and driving ok before, and even more so if you paid for it. KF are renowned for carrying out unrequired work on cars and many on here have bitten in the past.

To have 3 wheels that require the same weight i.e 45grm seems to be a good indication that the person balancing the wheels is not fully trained.

Are the wheel weights on the inside AND the out side or did they ballance the wheel from the centre !

When you go to the next garage to get the problem resolved tell the guy the problems you've had and ask him to see the wheel "spun up", if the ballancing machine has a cover get him to spin the wheel up and lift the cover, look to see that the wheel is not "tramping", if it is this would indicate that the tyre is not seated properly.

When he ballances the wheel make sure he removes all wheel weights before he starts, make sure he measures the wheel width and sets the distance from the machine to the outter edge of the wheel.

If the guy is any good he will ballance the wheel from the centre line of the wheel using only one set of weights, make sure he uses a chemical cleaning agent to remove grease/dirt/break dust.

Good luck

I'd be giving up up kwik fit and going to another local independent who specialise in tyres and not a general place that also does exhausts, brakes etc.

Having had one to many bad experiences in the past I would never go back to one of their places (Kwik Fit).

You mention that the second attempt involved a tracking adjustment, that was completely unnecessary especially if the car was handling and driving ok before, and even more so if you paid for it. KF are renowned for carrying out unrequired work on cars and many on here have bitten in the past.

I havent paid for any extra work, as far as I was concerned the problem was as a result of their poor workmanship.

If they had shown me evidence that the problem was caused by another external factor then I would have been happy to pay.

As regard KF, it all rests on their next move. If it gets resolved then great, otherwise I will get a 2nd opinion / fix locally by a specialist.

Will I use them again, probably not.

To have 3 wheels that require the same weight i.e 45grm seems to be a good indication that the person balancing the wheels is not fully trained.

Are the wheel weights on the inside AND the out side or did they ballance the wheel from the centre !

When you go to the next garage to get the problem resolved tell the guy the problems you've had and ask him to see the wheel "spun up", if the ballancing machine has a cover get him to spin the wheel up and lift the cover, look to see that the wheel is not "tramping", if it is this would indicate that the tyre is not seated properly.

When he ballances the wheel make sure he removes all wheel weights before he starts, make sure he measures the wheel width and sets the distance from the machine to the outter edge of the wheel.

If the guy is any good he will ballance the wheel from the centre line of the wheel using only one set of weights, make sure he uses a chemical cleaning agent to remove grease/dirt/break dust.

Good luck

Thanks for that, I will certainly be watching them like a hawk next time!

You say are the weights on the 'inside' of the wheel?

The weights they have applied are not visible on the outside face. Or do you mean different positions along the inside diameter of the inner face of the wheel? I know they can be placed at different positions along the diameter but am not sure what difference that would make so long as the wheel was 'balanced' using weights at points around the outside edge of the inner face of the wheel.

Hope that makes sense, nearly confused myself!

I understand the basics, but obviously far from an expert and it is obviously the detail that makes the difference.

Are the tyre pressures correct?

Are the tyre pressures correct?

Oh yes!!!

I am pretty pedantic about tyre pressures. Checked weekly irrespective of this.

However the first garage pumped them up to 37psi, which for me is too high, as its just me and the missus in the car usually. Back down to 32psi which I find a good ride, and handles well.

37 is fine with a heavy load or you fancy throwing it around a bit.

Right a semi update on this:

Michael the area manager from KF rang this morning, very prompt as I only left the email late on Sunday.

Very courteous and polite and has booked me into the Beverley branch for Wednesday morning.

Apparantly they have a 'super duper, all singing and dancing machine' (his words not mine!), for this kind of thing.

So I will see how this pans out. I have to say though, everywhere has problems and its how you deal with them that matters. Whilst they havent solved it yet (fingers crossed) they have been very helpful at every stage, and this guy seemed to be very positive.

I will be taking notes on what machine this fancy thing is, and how its all been performed (cheers to those who have told me what to look for)

Wiil update Wed evening.

Good to hear that there is possible positive outcome. Let us know when you done.

I actually balanced my wheels myself on a mates machine.

Mine don't wobble and are all good. So black art my arse is what i'd say!

Hope its gets sorted though chap.

"You say are the weights on the 'inside' of the wheel?

The weights they have applied are not visible on the outside face. Or do you mean different positions along the inside diameter of the inner face of the wheel? I know they can be placed at different positions along the diameter but am not sure what difference that would make so long as the wheel was 'balanced' using weights at points around the outside edge of the inner face of the wheel."

On a wheel balancer you have two options (well you did when I was a fitter), you can balance a wheel applying weight to the inner and outter rim (most popular way), you have a second option which you have to set the machine for, which is to balance the wheel on the centre (half way between front and rear rim), I use to use this method when balancing larger sports alloys - posh cars as you dont see the weight on the front of the rim, the problem with this is that this is where most of the break dust and grease seems to end up so make sure they apply the stick on weights to a dry clean area.

When they've re balanced your wheels tell them your just going to test drive it to make sure.

I hope they sort your problem for you.

Right a semi update on this:

Michael the area manager from KF rang this morning, very prompt as I only left the email late on Sunday.

Very courteous and polite and has booked me into the Beverley branch for Wednesday morning.

Apparantly they have a 'super duper, all singing and dancing machine' (his words not mine!), for this kind of thing.

So I will see how this pans out. I have to say though, everywhere has problems and its how you deal with them that matters. Whilst they havent solved it yet (fingers crossed) they have been very helpful at every stage, and this guy seemed to be very positive.

I will be taking notes on what machine this fancy thing is, and how its all been performed (cheers to those who have told me what to look for)

Wiil update Wed evening.

Right as promised, an update -

Visited the Beverley branch today and a very helpful chap (Mick, their head fitter) met me and knew exactly why I was there.

As much as I wanted to stay, he said it would be 2 hours before it was going to be returned to me so I went to do a bit of Chrimbo shopping. I did cop a view of their balancing machine (the reason why I was told to go to the Beverley branch) which looked the dogs doo daahs! A CEMB C75, mean anything to anyone? Looked very new and top end.

Anyway Mick reckoned he was the man to sort it and said he would 'start all over' with the tracking and balancing.

Cut a long story short, hour and half later he rang to say job done.

When I went back he had a smug smile on his face (a look that basically said yeah its fixed).

I took it for a quick spin and..........................jobs a good 'un!

All back to normal, no shakes, no wobbles. Asked whether it was down to the machine or the operator, he replied 'no comment'. Modest as well.

Anyway, not happy that it took 4 goes to get right, but they never quibbled or moaned at fixing the problem. I also now know if I (or anyone else in the East Yorks area) need to use Kwik Fit for Tyres (they can be very cheap) then go to their Beverley branch and ask for Mick.

Glad your all sorted mate

Glad your all sorted mate

Cheers bud

Sounds like you found a GOOD KF place in the end.

I'll just post my opinions.......most have been stated by other people....

I always use good independents.

Wheels not being cleaned properly is a well known problem causing weights to fly off (even had it on brand new wheels sent to me..the weights had dropped of in the box!!!!..got sorted all ok tho).

I watch my independent fit my tyres....he stated (and showed me) that you can balance a wheel...remove it from the machine...then put it back on and spin it...and it will come up "needs balanceing".......though he said usually around the 5g to 10g out from first try.

The "black art"....hhhmmmmmmmmm.....down to how often the machine gets tested/calibrated and serviced and the quality of the operator.

Definitely not a 'black art', but as you say a well calibrated machine and a well trained operator was key to getting it fixed.

I would normally avoid KF and use an Indy but £200 saving! very hard to ignore.