Deaths on unmanned rail crossings

[keystonedriving]

We try to keep it nice, whilst it lasts!

Graham, that's a fair old comute you've got there! Nice part of the country though. My maternal grandfather was a ganger on the Central Wales at Broome. He started with the LNWR and finished under the LMS. I used to spend summer holidays living with them.

Rob.

[Llanigraham]

Graham, that's a fair old comute you've got there! Nice part of the country though. My maternal grandfather was a ganger on the Central Wales at Broome. He started with the LNWR and finished under the LMS. I used to spend summer holidays living with them.

Rob.

There is a great little halt at Broome, that is looked after by a group of locals.

I do just under 100 miles a day, but since we only do 14 x 12 hour shifts in 28 days it actually isn't that bad. Mind you at -8 this morning I was glad to get home.

[Clunkclick]

That guy in the video . . 2 feet away from meeting his maker . . .certainly shows what a "Fear and flight" adrenaline surge can do . . .he was over that second barrier faster that Hussein bolt up a drain pipe.

Here's my twopence worth . . Great big yellow stop-line on the Road, demarcating a DMZ 15-20 back from the barrier. Movement sensors/pressure plates, flood lights, HD cameras and Flourescine dye dispenser pointing at the DMZ. Anybody who ventures into the Zone, when the barriers down, gets their picture taken, sprayed with bright green dye and an alarm is raised with the local plod - that occurs whether's there's a train coming or not. Top that off with a £10,000 fine + court and emergency service costs on first conviction (With an escalator for further violations) or if you can't find the money, 2 years inside per £10,000 fine. That might start to rotate them.

How about also electrifying the barriers (Sort of voltage for cattle wire), raising the standing height of the barriers, making them 3 -dimensional (A bit like beach obstacles to the Normandy landings) and putting razor wire on the top and sides ?

How about, a video screen (The bigger the better) activates on each side of the crossing when the barriers come down and shows advertisement recordings of near misses and accidents, thus ramming home the message - peach and hammer stuff - perhaps Ridley Scott could do a good one.

Towered banks of flashing lights each side of the crossing which would activate on approach of the train and change colour green-amber-red and increase in frequency as the train approached.

If Railtrack were to purchase 20-30 foot of the carriageway each side of the crossing from the local authority, then they could do what they liked with it as it would be private property.

With that sort of bod, even if there was a footbridge there, they wouldn't use it.

Nick

Edited 4 February, 2012 by Clunkclick

[2SkodaFamily]

Remember the part of Schindler's List, with the guard in the tower? Give a sniper rifle to signalman and let them shoot the stupid ******s.

[DaveHarries]

On Wednesday I got sent to pick up a car (Skoda Superb - nice!) from Pontyclun, South Wales. Before making tracks back to Bristol I took a lunch break next to the level crossing, known as Llantrissant West, which is not far west of the station at Pontyclun.

While I was there the gates were closed for several trains, the last of which was a London Paddington - Swansea HST. I was not amused, therefore, when someone crossed the crossing in their car while the lights were red and the barriers were just starting to come down. He did it at high speed and had probably a lucky escape: another second and the barrier would have hit his car. Which would have served him right.

The crossing has CCTV cameras on one side though so what will, hopefully, come his way will be a summons to the local court where he will be given a TT99 on his licence. For those who don't know, a TT99 is a totting-up offence meaning automatic disqualification and I believe I am right in thinking that ignoring red lights on a level crossing will cost you 12 points?

Dave

Edited 5 February, 2012 by DaveHarries

[Llanigraham]

Dave,

I'm sorry to tell you but the CCTV cameras there are only so the signaller knows the crossing is clear when he starts the lowering process.

And having reported several miscreants at my crossing, if they take the Fixed Penalty Notice they get a fine and 3 points. It can be increased if they go to Court, but few bother.

[Buster]

It should cost you 12 points! The amount of Darwin Awards nominees I see on my walk from the station to the office, espeicially concentrating on their phones (which if that isn't an invitation to a mugger, I don't know what is). No wonder these same people probably would chance their arm at a level crossing.

[cjb]

Oddly enough I wrote a blog post about this sort of thing yesterday. It's here if you'd like to read it.

Basically, in a nutshell, 100 years ago, if you were thick as pig snot chances were you'd do something stupid enough to remove yourself from the gene pool - hopefully before you get the chance to have any intellectually deficient children of your own.

As a species we are becoming thicker by the decade precisely because of this sort of thing.

There has to be some limit where you say "no, that person was a forkwit and it's their fault". This is not the same as saying "they deserved it" which I think is a key distinction.

Let's take reasonable precautions, yes, but let's forget the idea that you should have to go to the nth degree to protect amoebas with two legs from themselves. It's all got completely out of hand. We're evolving backwards now......

Couldn't agree more. I blogged about a crossing incident back in 2007.

Many years ago we used to holiday in Norman's Bay where there is a separate pedestrian only crossing about a mile or so east of the station. IIRC there was an incident where two teenage girls were killed on this crossing.

On holiday in Kent last year, we walked over several. All that's needed is common sense.

Obvoiously, it's a great tragedy, but we can't protect against every possibility...

[Evening Star]

I'm afraid I found that the NR level crossing safety films were pretty banal, maybe we should take the Australian approach....

[Clunkclick]

I'm afraid I found that the NR level crossing safety films were pretty banal, maybe we should take the Australian approach....

A1

All that's missing is the scene with the weeping family in the graveyard. Should have something similar to that playing on video screens each side of the most troublesome crossings. The video being overlayed with the message "Train approaching. DO NOT CROSS"

I hate to say this, put the trouble is that railway crossings don't look threatening enough. Especially, the rural ones . . . Nice white picket fences, with swing gates for pedestrians, hanging baskets on the signal box. It looks like you're arriving at granny's house.

Those gates need to be lockable (By a solenoid) on the apparoach of a train and unscaleable.

And the lifting barriers need to be more substantial and on both sides of the road. If necessary backed-up by a rising roads on the oncoming carriageways. But installation of a rising road would @ £50,000 a carriageway soon put paid to any surrendered network rail bonuses.

It would be interesting to know where the majority of accidents occur. At country locations (Where average traffic running speeds are faster) or in towns (Yes, there are still level crossings in London). At locations where there are continental type lifting gates or the much older swing gates (if there are any left - you couldn't beat the old fashioned wooden gates in a car, and if you hit them the car and possibly you were well damaged ).At locations which are overlooked, or those that are isolated.

IMHO, unmanned crossings (I presume all crossings are unmanned nowadays), as a minimum, should have a feed back system similar to that on the London underground, whereby a remote railway operative could issue admonishments via a microphone/loudspeaker system to misbehaving bystanders/road users that he could see on his in-office/signal box lcd screen which would be relayed a picture from decent HD cameras on site. And where members of the public could also, in turn, speak to a railway official. On the most accident prone crossings have London Congestion Zone type cameras that snap the registration plate + the driver (Nice little earner for one of the well known Constabulary).

But after you've undertaken all that H & S work it would be cheaper either to block-off the road or dig a cutting for pedestrians and cars under it and/or raise the railway track bed each side of the crossing to make an overpass.

I seem to recall that some notorious road junctions in the past were declared accident "Blackspots" and were equipped with highly visible notices and some of them had the traffic light sequence altered so that only one carriageway of traffic could flow at any one time. Hmmm ? Make problem railway crossings single carriageway (Tidal flow) and traffic light controlled ?

Nick

Edited 6 February, 2012 by Clunkclick

[simonsheil]

Or we could install automatic machine guns, no doubt similarly expensive, however, have benefits to the intelligent population.

[Clunkclick]

Or we could install automatic machine guns, no doubt similarly expensive, however, have benefits to the intelligent population.

They don't allow you airside at Heathrow (Not any more, in case you get sucked into one of those big revolving things that hang-off the aircraft wing - the mind boggles as to what Ridley Scot would make of that), why should the railway crossings be an exception.

Nick

Edited 6 February, 2012 by Clunkclick

[Llanigraham]

A1

All that's missing is the scene with the weeping family in the graveyard. Should have something similar to that playing on video screens each side of the most troublesome crossings. The video being overlayed with the message "Train approaching. DO NOT CROSS"

NICK, we on the railway have been saying that adverts need to be more graphic for ages, but no-one listens to us!

I hate to say this, put the trouble is that railway crossings don't look threatening enough. Especially, the rural ones . . . Nice white picket fences, with swing gates for pedestrians, hanging baskets on the signal box. It looks like you're arriving at granny's house.

Actually very rare now. If there are lifting barriers there will not be wicket gates, and you won't see many signal boxes with hanging baskets, the bosses don't like them!

Those gates need to be lockable (By a solenoid) on the apparoach of a train and unscaleable.

They are interlocked with the "train approach" system.

And the lifting barriers need to be more substantial and on both sides of the road. If necessary backed-up by a rising roads on the oncoming carriageways. But installation of a rising road would @ £50,000 a carriageway soon put paid to any surrendered network rail bonuses.

The problem is that heavier barriers needs heavier equipment to lift them, and often space is limited for equipment.

It would be interesting to know where the majority of accidents occur. At country locations (Where average traffic running speeds are faster) or in towns (Yes, there are still level crossings in London). At locations where there are continental type lifting gates or the much older swing gates (if there are any left - you couldn't beat the old fashioned wooden gates in a car, and if you hit them the car and possibly you were well damaged ).At locations which are overlooked, or those that are isolated.

I don't think it makes much difference where the crossings are to affect the accident rate. The "accidents" in the last 2 years seem to have been spread across all areas.

There are very few gated crossings left, and those that are, are generally it the more rural areas. I repeat, generally, but there are exceptions like around Worthing and Skegness. Gated crossings are as far as I know always manned. Barriers can be either manned, remote controlled or automatic. As an example, between Shrewsbury and Hereford, Church Stretton is auto, Marshbrook, Craven Arms, Onibury, Bromfield are manned, Ashford Bowdler and Leominster are auto, and Moreton-on-Lugg is manned.

Nationally there are also thousands of what we call User Worked Crossings, typically farm or small properties, which are usually telephone equipped, and which cause us lots of problems.

IMHO, unmanned crossings (I presume all crossings are unmanned nowadays), (see above) as a minimum, should have a feed back system similar to that on the London underground, whereby a remote railway operative could issue admonishments via a microphone/loudspeaker system to misbehaving bystanders/road users that he could see on his in-office/signal box lcd screen which would be relayed a picture from decent HD cameras on site. And where members of the public could also, in turn, speak to a railway official. On the most accident prone crossings have London Congestion Zone type cameras that snap the registration plate + the driver (Nice little earner for one of the well known Constabulary).

The problem with that is the fact that a great number of crossings are fully automated, in that the train hits a tredle on the approach to the crossing, which starts the barrier lowering sequence; there is NO human intervention. Your idea would only work at crossings that are CCTV controlled, and to be honest, the signalman has got more things to do than *******ing idiots! All unmanned crossings do have a telephone to contact the signaller; it is a requirement for drivers of slow vehicles to ring before crossing,

Lots of us have asked for Prosecution Quality CCTV recording equipment, but there is the usual answer of costs!

But after you've undertaken all that H & S work it would be cheaper either to block-off the road or dig a cutting for pedestrians and cars under it and/or raise the railway track bed each side of the crossing to make an overpass.

Ah, the Bob Crow answer; close them all! Oh that was the answer. In many places it would be physicaaly impossible to build a bridge or underpass, and to raise the railway over a road would probably require some 5 miles of track to be raised; you can't put hump-backed bridge on railways.

I seem to recall that some notorious road junctions in the past were declared accident "Blackspots" and were equipped with highly visible notices and some of them had the traffic light sequence altered so that only one carriageway of traffic could flow at any one time. Hmmm ? Make problem railway crossings single carriageway (Tidal flow) and traffic light controlled ?

It would work if drivers could be trusted not to stop within the railway bit! I've actually nearly bounced the barriers on the top of vehicles here when they have queued across the crossing on Race Days (I'm on Ludlow Racecourse)

And there is actually a legal reason why level crossings do not have normal type traffic lights. Normal traffic lights can legally be used as a "give way" by Emergency Vehicles, whereas the twin flashing reds at a level crossing are a definitive, legal "STOP" to all traffic.

And since 0530 I've operated my barriers 6 times and already had someone blowing their horn becvause the barriers were down! It just takes me even longer to get them up!!

Nick

[Auric Goldfinger]

We have crossing gates, on the branch, operated by a Signalman or crossing keeper. When the gates are closed to road traffic the "Wicket Gates " are still open to the public and they run across the tracks to catch that train. We have asked if these can be locked to prevent this happening but to no avail.

No one has been killed doing this so I assume its classed as "Safe Practice"

We have a couple of crossings with barriers and when the barriers are down the wicket Gates are inter-locked with the system.

[Llanigraham]

Seems to be a known problem AG. I wonder what the "Risk Assesment" says? It's unusual to find wickets on barriered crossings over here.

Which branch?

[Clunkclick]

Wow Graham. I wasn't expecting a such a comprehensive response. I'd just say the following:-

It wouldn't necessarily have to be the local signalman that was charged with electronically monitoring these crossings and providing immediate response to the public - it couldn't ut be done on a centralised basis by the signal authority/railway police ?

IMHO, Bob Crow may have a point. Perhaps a "Beeching" does need to be done on Railway crossings. Decide which ones are going to be closed, use the money saved to modify the remainder.Railway crossings are a bit like "Flown cables" of the telecomms and electricity distribution industry - it was cheaper to do the initial installation that way in order not to burden a fledging industry with unnecessary costs, but now things have moved on, including traffic usuage, so there would need to be a re-assessment.

With regard to mods. Its amazing what can be done, irrespective of cost, when there's the will to do it. I live local to part of the proposed HST-2 route going through Ruislip, West London. And, you know, way before the recent Official announcement of the go-ahead, work had and is still being undertaken to widen embankments, widen and strengthen bridges - in an area which is already crammed-full of 1930s housing development. Before the announcement, some locals couldn't see the justification for doing all this work, given that the only services that use the line are the Chiltern line routes out of Marylebone and the Freight wagons from the nearby West London Waste Authority site.

So there you go. All you need is the prospect of some bankers and Government ministers using a line and the World's your oyster, as far as upgrades are concerned.

Nick

Edited 7 February, 2012 by Clunkclick

[VladSoilerOfCarpets]

Rail boss has given up his £300k+ bonus to improve a crossing or two...

[Auric Goldfinger]

Seems to be a known problem AG. I wonder what the "Risk Assesment" says? It's unusual to find wickets on barriered crossings over here.

Which branch?

Harrogate/York

Belmont Crossing, it's not part of the " Block " but has Semaphore/colour light signals with barriers operated by a Crossing Keeper, it's between Starbeck & Knaresborough

[cjb]

I hate to say this, put the trouble is that railway crossings don't look threatening enough. Especially, the rural ones . . . Nice white picket fences, with swing gates for pedestrians, hanging baskets on the signal box. It looks like you're arriving at granny's house.

Those gates need to be lockable (By a solenoid) on the apparoach of a train and unscaleable.

And the lifting barriers need to be more substantial and on both sides of the road. If necessary backed-up by a rising roads on the oncoming carriageways. But installation of a rising road would @ £50,000 a carriageway soon put paid to any surrendered network rail bonuses.

Nah. thick ******s just need to get a grip, frankly.

[FellyMagic]

Auric, that line is still in the dark ages. The main line has loads of gated pedestrian crossings here between Ipswich & Norwich, and not that long ago, someone decided to walk in front of a Norwich bound class 90 & full rake, which at that point was doing just shy of the ton. I feel sorry for the poor person who was driving the loco.

We still have plenty of manned crossings around here too, and on the Clacton line, one manned crossing has trains that do around 90 through (Class 360 EMU's), which is a worrying thought. The gates really should have some form of solenoid lock on which activates as soon as the 'wigwags' start, which someone has already said, but Nitwit Fail would probably claim it is too expensive to fit them.

Edited 7 February, 2012 by FellyMagic

[Clunkclick]

Auric, that line is still in the dark ages. The main line has loads of gated pedestrian crossings here between Ipswich & Norwich, and not that long ago, someone decided to walk in front of a Norwich bound class 90 & full rake, which at that point was doing just shy of the ton. I feel sorry for the poor person who was driving the loco.

We still have plenty of manned crossings around here too, and on the Clacton line, one manned crossing has trains that do around 90 through (Class 360 EMU's), which is a worrying thought. The gates really should have some form of solenoid lock on which activates as soon as the 'wigwags' start, which someone has already said, but Nitwit Fail would probably claim it is too expensive to fit them.

Semaphore signals ? i.e. Victorian infrastructure. What is this ? Thomas the Tank engine meets Hornby 00 ? What happened to in-cab signalling ? You could probably implement that on an Ipad app. And those buggers at the top were still considering taking money out the business for themselves (Before they were swayed by public anger) before investing to replace clearly outdated equipment.

No wonder virtually every other country in Europe is well ahead of us.

Sounds to me as if brother Crow is spot on.

But of course, now the UK railway industry is in private hands its 100% effcient and effective.

Nick

Edited 8 February, 2012 by Clunkclick

[Llanigraham]

A lot of the country still has semaphore signalling and it works perfectly, but it is heavy on manpower.

In-cab signalling, otherwise known as ERTMS, is currently being trialled on the Cambrian line, but is still under development, even in Europe. It seems to work well on plain line, but has problems in large station areas. In Europe those areas go back to "local control". In general in Europe it is only the High Speed lines that have gone to the system. The local lines are still locally controlled. Interestingly, we are now considered to be in the forefront of this technology on small lines, and the Europeans are coming to us to see how it can be done.

What Bros Crow hasn't considered is the loss of jobs to his own members, the disruption to local communities in closing small crossings, and the cost of providing a replacement system. He makes sound bites without thought.

Only the Train/Freight Operating Companies are privatised. Network Rail is "owned" by the Government and has no shareholders.

[Auric Goldfinger]

Semaphore signals ? i.e. Victorian infrastructure. What is this ? Thomas the Tank engine meets Hornby 00 ?

Nick

Our Semaphore Signals are Modern ones, ours go up

Llannigrahams go down, very pre-Victorian

[Llanigraham]

AG, I'll treat you with the utter contempt you deserve! :p

[Auric Goldfinger]

AG, I'll treat you with the utter contempt you deserve! :p

Why thank you kind Sir.......