Extract of previous posting under "Quicker with the dog and bone" in Roadside Hotel.

Post 1:

Posted Yesterday, 19:44

These brokers (Be Wiser) I'm going through for the Aviva Comprehensive policy are really buggering me around.

They've taken the money off me on Monday already for one year's premium (£356) and now will not confirm that they are insuring me as of 8/03/12.

They sent me an initial e-mail with terms and conditions and requested that I supply them with written confirmation of my NCB. By e-mail, I accepted the Ts and Cs and provided them with a copy of the e-mail renewal advice I received (With the premium and excess redacted) . They accepted the NCB information I supplied and then asked why I had retired( This was already explained to the sales consultant)

In a return E-mail on Monday, I questioned why they needed to know why I had retired. No reply was forthcoming.

So I called them up today and spoke to the Customer Service Staff. They claimed they hadn't received my latest E-mail. After going away from the phone (Presumably for advice) I was told that they didn't need to know why I had retired, that my payment had been taken and that the policy would commence 8/03/12. I asked for e-mail confirmation of this.

Again, this wasn't forthcoming. So I sent them an E-mail summarising what happened to date, including a full explanation of why I had categorised myself as being retired (including supporting documenation from my former employer) and requesting written confirmation of the start of the policy. To date this hasn't been responded to.

Just after I sent this I got an e-mail response to my earlier E-Mail from a second sales consultant saying that their original request for information was incorrectly stated and that all I needed to do was confirm that I was retired. This I did in an e-mail by return and included a copy of the summary e-mail I had sent earlier. Again,to date I haven't had a response.

So, I phoned them up again and asked for the 2nd sales consultant and was told that she was in a meeting. I requested that someone advise me whether they wanted the business or not and was told that the 2nd sales consultant phone back today to advise me one way or the other whether they were going to insure me. So far nothing heard.

So far, I am really not impressed. It appears that I'm getting the run around for some reason and nobody will come clean as to why.

On the treatment I've got so far I wouldn't recommend this broker.

Also this morning, I received documentation through the post confirming the insurance and including a Certificate of Motor Insurance covering the period 8/03/2012 to 7/03/2013 but stating in the covering letter that I wouldn't get the Full Annual Certificate Of Insurance until I'd provided details of my NCB (Done already as above).

If the certificate I have received today is the full certificate, why are they still asking questions ?

And they wonder why the economy is shrinking !

Nick

Post 2

Oh No.

Just discovered this:-

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?262732-Stitched-Up-Like-A-Kipper-Be-Wiser-Insurance-NOW-RESOLVED-BY-COMPANY

An absolute littany of serial business sharp practice bordering on deception and fraud ?

And they came up as the no 2 entry when I did a search on the Compare the Market website. And, I didn't contact them, a lady from them telephoned me at home !!

This is exactly what they are doing to me.

They've charged my credit card the full annual premium, issued me with a Certificate of Motor Insurance and then keep on coming back to me with questions on my NCB and occupation status. I've answered two sets of questions then they came back in the post this morning with another set of quite unreasonable demands. Every time you successfully answer one set of questions, they raise the bar and ask a follow on set - I presume that they will run this on up to the end of their nominated period for submission of supporting documents by the prospective insured and then say you haven't complied. Meanwhile they have had your money for 21 days and you can't re-insure elsewhere. Twisters ! Charlatans !

In the end I contacted the Regulator, the Financial Services Authority, and spoke to their Insurance help desk guy at length. He enabled me to find the company details on their registration database and identify the company officers who were registered with FSA. It appears that there was a predecessor company before Be wiser called A Quote Insurance services who wound up business in 2007, but that a large number of the names just transferred across to Be Wiser.Here's the Company's House entry:-

http://wck2.companieshouse.gov.uk/e4d1290ac0ea3e86c2b2642e359d14fc/compdetails

Here's a link to their FSA register entry:

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmBasicDetails.do?sid=184733

And here's a link to the list of company officers that are listed with the FSA:-

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmIndivSearch.do?sid=184733

This evening I e-mailed them back and copied it to the company officer registered with the FSA as performing the insurance mediation role:-

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmContact.do?sid=184733

I got a reply almost immediately saying the matter had been passed down to a Assistant Director for resolution.

Why havn't the FSA/Police doing something about these guys.

Yet they haven't got a stain on their disciplinary record on the FSA web site:-

http://www.fsa.gov.uk/register/firmDiscHistory.do?sid=184733

Nick

This post has been edited by Clunkclick: Today, 20:56

IMHO AVOID THEM AT ALL COSTS - THEY DON'T APPEAR TO BE OPERATING IN GOOD FAITH OR WITHIN THE NORMAL REALM OF BUSINESS ETHICS.

Nick

Edited 16 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

Terrible way to run a business, eh! Clues in the name. Be wiser...insure elsewhere!

I hope you resolve it fully, you seem quite well prepared.

Just to give you a flavour here's the e-mail correspondence (Redacted for stuff that isn't public domain) I've had since Monday 13th - read bottom-up for the chronological order.

Dear Mr ********

I thank you for copying me in on your email. I have copied **** ****** one of our Assistant Directors who will look into this matter on your behalf I am sure she will be back to you very quickly and everything can be resolved satisfactorily .

Should you have any further problems please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind regards

Mark Bower-Dyke

Chairman

Be Wiser Insurance

‘Sunday Times Fast Track 100 Company’

[email protected]

Tele 0844 4999400

From: ******** ******* [mailto:******@*******.***]

Sent: 16 February 2012 16:59

To: 'Customer Service'

Cc: ********@**********.***

Subject: RE: Insure Wiser - ******** - Your Insurance Policy

*****,

Reference your e-mail advice of earlier today, my understanding was that there was no further questions to be answered and this policy was going ahead.

I have received today a letter dated 14/02/12 (Attached above) from Mr ****** of Be Wiser.

I have already provided you with details of my NCB in the form of an electronic copy of the renewal e-mail I received. Further, I have already provided a full and frank explanation in e-mail (To yourself and ***** *****) and over the phone to ***** of my occupation status. Mr ***** is now requiring certification of my current occupation. Who is going to provide this.

As I explained in my e-mail I am no longer employed, having exited the Ministry of Defence under the Voluntary Early Release scheme (VERS1) at the end of January. This scheme is a pre-redundancy measure, promoted by the incumbent government (In particular the Prime Minister, Mr David Cameron) for the slimming down of manpower in the Ministry of Defence. It takes the form of a contractual agreement between the government and the individual crown servant (i.e. me). In return for a payment from government, the crown servant signs an agreement to leave the department. In my case this occurred two years before formal retirement at 60. As the public domain document which I sent you indicates, there are 5,000 civil Servants following the same path as me and over the next three years there will be a further 20,000 other Civil Servants in the Ministry who will be doing the same.

My current situation is that I am no longer employed or salaried by the Ministry. I am not seeking work or registered with the Department of work And Pensions as unemployed and seeking work. I regard myself as retired and hopefully will be claiming my Ministry pension in two years time. With the current employment situation and my age working against me, I can see no prospect in the short –term of obtaining employment, even if I wanted to. I am content with this situation. At the moment I am living on savings in expectation of receipt of discharge payment from my former employer. Consequently, the only certification that I can provide is my signed VERS agreement and P45 indicating that I am no longer employed by the Ministry of Defence.

I cannot believe that your customer details capture mechanism is so limited and inflexible that it cannot accommodate these simple facts, which are a widespread reality in our society now.

I have to say that as a new customer the customer handling to date hasn’t been ideal.

I have been passed from one “consultant†to another en route to getting this insurance.

I have already been issued with what I believe to be a Certificate of motor insurance covering the period 8/03/12 to 7/03/12. However, I am still being asked questions regarding my status and the majority of these questions have been presented to me after the Certificate Of Motor Insurance was issued to me.

Further, everytime I successfully respond to your organisations requests for information, the bar seems to be raised and a further question or questions are forthcoming from a new individual in your organisation.

The experience I am having at the hands of your organisation is unprecedented in my 34 years of driving in the UK .

I would remind you that the logo adorning your organisations written communications indicates that you are registered with the Financial Services Authority and, accordingly, I would draw your attention to the ICOB provisions in the FSA Handbook regarding fair handling of clients and communications with the client.

I will be glad to receive your written confirmation that this policy will commence 8/03/12 and that there are no further questions to be answered.

If you are not prepared to proceed with this policy, please advise me as soon as possible so that I can make alternative arrangements.

I have to say that the way matters have been handled to date you are definitely on track for a referral to BBC Watchdog and the FSA

Regards,

Nick *******

From: ***** ******* [mailto:*****.*@******.**.**] On Behalf Of Customer Service

Sent: 16 February 2012 11:35

To: ******** *******

Subject: RE: Insure Wiser - *******-* - Your Insurance Policy

Dear Mr *******,

Thank you for your email.

As confirmed in my below email, the query was to ensure that we held correct and accurate information for you to ensure your policy is valid. It is a standard process. We understand members of the public retire earlier than others however, we still have a duty to ensure that the information is correct which is why we wanted clarification from you.

We can confirm that Aviva do not have any issues with you being retired, nor do we, it was just confirmation that the data entered was accurate.

We hope this satisfies your query, should you need any further assistance please do not hesitate to contact us.

Regards,

***** ******

Consultant

*****.******.**.**

**********

From: ******** ******* [mailto:******@*******.***]

Sent: 15 February 2012 17:03

To: Customer Service

Subject: RE: Insure Wiser - *******-* - Your Insurance Policy

For The attention Of ***** *******.

*****,

For your information, in the past, people in some areas of the Public Service were able to retire early at 50. I don’t think that is the case across the board today. I would have thought that would have been common knowledge in a town such as Andover which has/had a big public service contingent, including MOD.

I confirm that I am retired at the moment. The e-mail sent earlier this afternoon (attached above) after my conversation with ***** in Customer services explains the situation.

My understanding is that your principal, Aviva don’t have a problem with that.

Please would you confirm by return E-mail that the policy will commence on 8/03/12 on the terms agreed.

Very many thanks.

Regards,

**** *******,

**** *** ****

From: ***** ******* [mailto:*****.*@******.**.**] On Behalf Of Customer Service

Sent: 15 February 2012 16:42

To: ******** *******

Subject: RE: Insure Wiser - *******-* - Your Insurance Policy

Dear Mr *******,

Thank you for your response.

In relation to the email we previously sent, we would like to apologise as perhaps the wording was not quite correct. We are requesting confirmation that the information input is correct and that your occupation is retired? As you are quite young to be retired it is standard policy to ensure that information provided is held accurately so your insurance policy is valid for you.

We apologise for any inconvenience caused and look forward to hearing from you.

Regards,

***** ******

Consultant

*****.*@*******.**.**

***********

From: ******** ******* [mailto:******@*******.***]

Sent: 14 February 2012 23:57

To: Customer Service

Subject: RE: Insure Wiser - *******-* - Your Insurance Policy

***** *****,

*****,

I don’t understand, why do you need to know why I retired early ?

What relevance is it to this contract of insurance ?

Regards,

**** ******

From: ***** ***** [mailto:*****.*@*******.**.**] On Behalf Of Customer Service

Sent: 14 February 2012 15:02

To: ******@*******.***

Subject: FW: Insure Wiser - *******-* - Your Insurance Policy

Dear Mr *******,

Thank you for your recent email.

We can confirm that we have received your proof of No Claims Bonus and your file has been updated accordingly.

Please be advised that we also require confirmation why you are retired at 57.

Once this information has been provided we can update your file further.

Please do not hesitate to contact us should you have any further queries.

Kind Regards

***** *****

Administration assistant

Mailto: *****.*@*******.**.**

From: ******** ******* [mailto:******@*******.***]

Sent: 13 February 2012 18:52

To: Customer Service

Subject: RE: Insure Wiser - *******-* - Your Insurance Policy

Dear Sirs,

Thank you for your confirmation below.

I note your requirement for written advice of the No Claims Bonus I would have been entitled from my previous insurer (*********) on renewal.

I understand that an electronic copy of the renewal letter I received from ********** will be sufficient to satisfy your requirement for proof of No Claims Bonus.

Please find redacted copy (Renewal premium and amount of voluntary excess removed) attached above.

Regards,

**** *******.

Tel: **** *** ****

From: Insure Wiser [mailto:[email protected]]

Sent: 13 February 2012 17:53

To: ******@*******.***

Subject: Insure Wiser - *******-* - Your Insurance Policy

A Subsidiary of Be Wiser Insurance Be Wiser Insurance

Riverside House

35-37 Bridge Street

Andover

Hants

SP10 1BE

Customer Care Line – 0844 2499039

Claim Line – 0800 2982820

RAC Breakdown – 0800 0681631

Email – [email protected]

Reference – *******/*

Mr * *******

* ******* ****

******

*********

*** ***

Dear Mr *******,

Thank you for taking out a policy on your Skoda Fabia 16V 100, please note that your cover note and Statement of Facts have been sent in the post.

To Download or View your policy please go to http://www.bewiser.co.uk/insurers/Car/aviva

To Download or View our Terms of Business please go to http://www.bewiser.co.uk/sites/www.bewiser.co.uk/files/Insure-Wiser-Terms-of-Business.pdf

You can print off any of the above as and when you require them.

The total cost of your policy is £ 356.05 *.

As instructed cover has been arranged from 08/03/2012 .

Thank you for your full payment.

Schedule of Covers

Insurer Aviva Drivers Insured only

Cover Comprehensive Use SD&P Use (Excluding Commuting)

Voluntary Excess £0 No Claims Bonus 4 years Protected

Compulsory Excess £200 RAC Roadside Assistance Included

Policy Frequency Yearly Legal Protection Included

We look forward to receiving written proof of No Claims Discount or Claim Free Driving Experience.

Please note you have 21 days to supply the above documents.

Upon satisfactory receipt of the documents your full annual certificate will be issued to you.

Thank you again for your custom.

Yours sincerely,

Mark Bower-Dyke

Mark Bower-Dyke

Tel: 0844 2499039

www.Insurewiser.co.uk

*The total cost of your policy is £356.05 this is inclusive of the £342.02 due to your insurers and a balance of £14.03 as our charge for arranging this policy. Any instalments quoted are the amounts paid and include any interest charges.

Be Wiser Insurance is a trading name of Be Wiser Insurance Services Ltd. Registered in Engalnd No. 6097813

Registered Office: Rowans, Houghton, Stockbridge, Hants SO20 6LT

Authorised and Regulated by the Financial Services Authority

Nick

Edited 16 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

I hope you have miss-typed this

'Certificate of Motor Insurance covering the period 8/03/2012 to 7/03/2012'

You are covered for minus 1 day! I am guessing you are covered until 7 March 2013 (364 days), not 7 March 2012.

Edited 16 February, 201214 yr by Jim H

If I don't get any joy. I'll copy it up to Cameron and the papers with a covering letter asking whether this is the sort of business he thought would be absorbing people laid-off from the Public Sector. Hoo-hah.

Nick

I hope you have miss-typed this

'Certificate of Motor Insurance covering the period 8/03/2012 to 7/03/2012'

You are covered for minus 1 day! I am guessing you are covered until 7 March 2013 (364 days), not 7 March 2012.

You got me checking there boy. You're right, mistype. I'll correct it. Cheers.

Nick

Congrats on getting VERS,I hope your early retirement starts to get better after this! VERS2 isnt quite getting the takeup they were looking for :S

Congrats on getting VERS,I hope your early retirement starts to get better after this! VERS2 isnt quite getting the takeup they were looking for :S

You say that, at the locality I was at, VERS2 has got an even bigger take-up. I'm glad I'm out. Compared with 2003-2007 when Iraq an the Stan were running full-tilt, the work at my level in the branch I was working in diminished, latterly to near no-existent (Partly 'cause there's no money to do anything). After a while, some of the seniors were pinching some of the more "Interesting" admin tedium off of me to make it look like they were doing something. Then the localised set-up was joined with a national commercial structure and the bar was raised (Or enforced) on entrance qualifications to grades (I wasn't going to resume further 5 years of professional study 2 years from retirement) - so, effectively I was constructively dismissed. So decided to go.

A month after I put in my application I had a heart attack.Getting back to work after 9 weeks off and still in the recovery phase was difficult as hell (Even with 13 years service, I nearly exhausted my full-pay sick allowance). So that decided it for me.

Nick

Edited 16 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

It gets worse:-

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/be-wiser-insurance-c476770.html

http://www.topcashback.co.uk/be_wiser_insurance/reviews

Its deception (Obtaining pecunairy advantage) and attempted theft (Apropriation). How do they get away with it ?

Suppose somebody on the board must be the best friend of the high priestess of a top lodge somewhere.

Nick

Edited 17 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

Yikes. I am going to start looking for new insurance this weekend, I won't be anywhere near that bunch of cowboys.

Hope you get it resolved.

Could you not have gone direct to Aviva instead of through a broker? I have a policy with them and did it all on line, was simple.

Could you not have gone direct to Aviva instead of through a broker? I have a policy with them and did it all on line, was simple.

I could have done.But my premium searches on the web showed that Aviva direct was much more expensive ? In actual fact someone on this site suggested that to me earlier (See Quicker on the Dog and Bone post in Roadside Hotel). But before I could get on the case, Be wiser's staff phoned me offering their Aviva policy (Monday morning). Should have thought twice about it - you never know, they probably keep a watching brief on sites like this. And conicidentally, they came-up as number two choice on premium searches on one of the "Compare wed sites" - I think it was Go compare - interestingly, I retrieved the quotes from both sites again today and the be-wiser quote is absent from both lists.

Do you really want to contract with a comapny that appoints and allows agents like this to operate ? Be-wiser advertise on their web site that they offer Aviva policies.

Don't think I can go to Aviva direct now, because I'm contractually committed to this policy- having accepted the Terms and conditions.

And, if I decide to cancel it, even before the commencement of cover you can bet your bottom dollar that they will claim something for admin.

If I let it run on for twenty one days without doing anything, they will no doubt claim,, at the end of that period, that I have defaulted on a major condition of the policy contract by not providing them in the timescale with adequate evidence of NCB (Their latest position is that claim that they are unable to verify my NCB with my previous insurer despite me furnishing them with my renewal notice from my last insurer) AND that I have not provided satisfactory evidence of my retired status (They currently want me to get somebody to certify that I am retired - who, my previous employer can't do that because I was released on contractual terms prior to pension age. I'm not entitled or claiming a pension at the moment so, in their eyes (conveniently), I suspect that they regard me as not retired.). Only trouble is, if I was Mr Rooney, Mr Petersen, Mr Jocavwicz or Mr Schummaker I could proclaim to the World that I was retiring, irrespective of whether I was claiming a pension, retire from sporting life only to re-engage 3 years later (At my whim) with professional working life.

The other thing is that their fault-finding with my responses is probably calculated to bring about this effect. So it wouln't matter what I said, they'd still reject it.

Apparently, the industry Ombudsman is an industry puppet, so you are probably wasting your time there.

I still haven't heard anything back from this assistant director (Sounds like the american Vice president in charge of paper clips).

I reckon its time to bring on the big guns and kick 'em in the nadgers. So, if I don't get a satisfactory solution by COP today complaint correspondence will be winging its way to FSA, BIA, Group Chief Executive of Aviva (Got his details already, BBC Watchdog, Local Trading Standards and others.

Either way if their action is deliberate or the result of monumental muppet stultifing incompetence, they are going to get a wake-up call.

Postscript

I'm just wondering whether i can check the Motor Insurance database, before the cover commencement date, to see if the policy has been stood up ?

Postcript 2

So its 18:00 on the 17/02/12 and I still have not been contacted by the Assistant Director, as promised in an E-Mail yesterday by the Chairman, Mark. So I send him an E-mail advising him that I still haven't heard from anybody.I receive no reply by 19:00, so I call their main telephone number and ask to speak to the Assistant Director. I am told that she's out of office and will not be in until next Tuesday. The call-centre lady advises that she has checked my policy record on their computer system an tells me that it is all set to commence on 8/03/12 and that the queries stated in the letter of the 14th February are no longer extant - having been overridden by the E-Mail advice from them of the 16th February. I requested that the Assistant Director confirm this to me by E-mail on her return.

I also ask what the terms are for cancellation of the policy and am told 14 days with a £58 charge.

I'm not holding my breath.

Its evens money at the moment for Lazy or Incompetent or Bent or any combination therefore.

Nick

Edited 18 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

58 pound charge? I'm pretty sure there must be some legalities issues there!! The whole policy is only just over 300!! I'd cancel and go elsewhere...

58 pound charge? I'm pretty sure there must be some legalities issues there!! The whole policy is only just over 300!! I'd cancel and go elsewhere...

Here's an extract of the cancellation clause from the terms of business document:-

"You hold the right to cancel cover within fourteen days from inception or fourteen days from receiving Policy documentation. The premium payable by yourself will be calculated by the number of days on cover at the premium quoted, subject to a minimum premium of £25.00.

Should you wish to cancel cover after fourteen days your Insurers may base their premium on "Short Period Rates", this could represent the time on cover with an additional charge equal to three months premium. Any return premium to you will be the net return given by your Insurers less our charge of 15%."

My reading of this clause is that if I cancel within 14 days of either inception (13/02/12) or receipt of documents (14/02/12) because my cover doesn't start until well after this period i.e. 8/03/12 then, I presume that, in the event of cancellation Aviva would return the full premium (No deductions) but the brokers would charge a 15% admin fee. 15% of £356.05 = £53.41.

Cancellation after 14 days involves a reduction in the premium returned by the insurer plus a reduced charge by the broker because of the lower value of the premium returned.

I don't know how the Distance Selling Regulations apply in relation to this clause. My general understanding is that cancellation under DSR can be effected within 7 days of inception at no charge to the insured.

The broker has already been paid the full value of my premium, so you're on the back foot when its comes to arguing the toss of whether the DSR or their T & Cs take precedence, Bearing in mind that the floor staff probably don't know things down to that level of detail and the management are inaccessible. No chance in a dispute. Whatever they deemed right would be deducted and the balance returned to you and if you wanted to take issue yoy have to go to the small claims court.

I have to say that after Swiftcover, this is very very hard work, bordering on customer abuse. But there again, the premium is approx 60% of Swiftcover and AA, you gets what you pay for. The cheapest I found was RAC @ £311 but that was without breakdown cover, uninsured costs legal cover or NCB protection. Add those on and you are at the same level as Be Wiser.

Not sure what is causing the premium differences as between Be Wiser and Swiftcover.May be swiftcover cover did a form of loss leader pricing on me for the first couple of years - first year was £323 and second year was £373 and third year £585 !!! I did notice that Swiftcover did want to know your driving history in the last 5 years, whereas this crowd only want to go 3 years back. As far as I'm concerned, five years ago was bad for me Windscreen glass, a costly shunt and 3 speeding points in the same year.

Also, maybe Swiftcover have assumed that I am unemployed. at least one of the major premium search web sites doesn't have the facility to record retired as an occupation category.

Postscript

Distance selling regulations, condition 12, does say 7 days:-

"Cancellation period in the case of contracts for the supply of services

12.—(1) For the purposes of regulation 10, the cancellation period in the case of contracts for the supply of services begins with the day on which the contract is concluded and ends as provided in paragraphs (2) to (4).

(2) Where the supplier complies with regulation 8 on or before the day on which the contract is concluded, the cancellation period ends on the expiry of the period of seven working days beginning with the day after the day on which the contract is concluded.

(3) Where a supplier who has not complied with regulation 8 on or before the day on which the contract is concluded provides to the consumer the information referred to in regulation 8(2) and (3), and does so in writing or in another durable medium available and accessible to the consumer, within the period of three months beginning with the day after the day on which the contract is concluded, the cancellation period ends on the expiry of the period of seven working days beginning with the day after the day on which the consumer receives the information.

(4) Where neither paragraph (2) nor (3) applies, the cancellation period ends on the expiry of the period of three months and seven working days beginning with the day after the day on which the contract is concluded."

Postcript

Uberrima Fides

It seems that in the several reported cases on the web where the broker has pulled the policy, they have relied on the principle of Uberrima Fides (Utmost good faith) which governs insurance contracts, to claim that the insured hasn't made full and frank disclosures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uberrima_fides

Of course that may well be the case and that the broker may have been fully justified in cancelling the policy. Equally the web reports could be distorted or absolutely untrue for a variety of reasons.

It may well represent competition from other suppliers who are relying on the chaotic nature of the brokers normal presentation to the customer to re-inforce the seed of doubt listed in web reports on the subject of this broker pulling policies mid-term on dubious pretexts.Basically, you can't tell.

It may be that because they operate, i.e. in the "Cut-throat" end of the market (i.e. narrower margins) means that they meet a higher than average proportion of twisters amongst the general public i.e. those that have been refused insurance elsewhere for instance, and therefore have to be extremely circumspect in how they deal and communicate with such customers. Maybe.

To protect myself, I think I will be writing to them in due course confirming that I have in all my actions in relation to this policy acted "Uberrima fides" , in that I have disclosed all information requested and gone beyond that. I will state that as far as I understand now the company is satisfied with my disclosures and is content to allow cover to commence on 8/03/12 on the terms agreed - and I'll send this missive to the Chairman noting that his Assistant Director still hasn't contacted me per his written advice to me.Bamo !

Nick

Edited 18 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

A mate of mine has taken VERS 2 and is also retiring. He hasn't had any of the trouble you have had. A mutual friend of ours who works in the insurance industry, advised him not to use a broker in his case which he didn't.

He was asked about his retirement by most of the insurers he telephoned, but any questions were straightforward and were explained.

Some asked if he took retirement on medical grounds.

Most asked to confirm that he had retired and wasn't looking for work. A few asked if he was in receipt of pension payments. All explained that there is currently a problem with the unemployed claiming to be retired.

A broker is meant to make it easy. This bunch of jokers seems to be doing the opposite.

A mate of mine has taken VERS 2 and is also retiring. He hasn't had any of the trouble you have had. A mutual friend of ours who works in the insurance industry, advised him not to use a broker in his case which he didn't.

He was asked about his retirement by most of the insurers he telephoned, but any questions were straightforward and were explained.

Some asked if he took retirement on medical grounds.

Most asked to confirm that he had retired and wasn't looking for work. A few asked if he was in receipt of pension payments. All explained that there is currently a problem with the unemployed claiming to be retired.

A broker is meant to make it easy. This bunch of jokers seems to be doing the opposite.

Totally agree, especially the last comment.

Just got this e-mail missive from the Assistant Director. proving that they certainly know what JIT operations are:-

Dear Mr ******,

I am sorry to hear that you have not had a great start to your experience with Insure Wiser.

I have reviewed our policy records and can confirm that we have received your No Claims Bonus and our records have been updated accordingly with regards to your current occupation situation.

We requested further information in relation to your occupation to enable us to establish whether you are fully retired, we have previously established that consumers in early retirement may have a part time of voluntary occupation, therefore we are required to ensure that the information that we hold is accurate and that the policy provided meets with your requirements in full. We apologise for any inconvenience that this may have caused. We can confirm that we no longer have any outstanding requirements in relation to your Motor Insurance Policy.

You policy, underwritten by Aviva policy number ***********, will most certainly commence on 8th March 2012 as requested.

Be Wiser Insurance Group endeavour to provide a high level of customer care and I apologies that you do not appear to have experienced this in this instance.

Once again I apologise and should you have any further queries please do not hesitate to contact me.

Kind Regards,

**** ******

Assistant Director

Somebody must have put a rocket up them.(The power of Briskoda ?).

Ah ! Now we learn what the problem really was ? Its only taken a week of my time and 20 hrs on the 'puter to get there. And we are told that Private Industry is so much better than the Public service - you have got to be joking.

This all hinges around the insurance industry's view that unemployed people will travel more, and use the car to do so, than working people. The phrases "Are you on", "what planet" come to mind.

Suddenly, they missed the trick in Andover (An ex-market town turned 1950s London overspill, with large Public Service employer presence and labour force off the local estates (Surprise!)) that a technically unemployed 57 year old ex-public servant wouldn't be immediately snapped-up by the local chicken-nuggets a-go-go. Unheard of. Doesn't say much for their business acumen. Gordon Bennett !(And he's one of the FSA licensed officers of the company)

The approach that they dealt out to me was so Public service i.e. obstructive in the extreme, I thought I was back at work.

What beats me though, I was never directly asked whether I was seeking work, or registered with the Department of Work and pensions. If you're half-organised as a business you ask a series of questions, which as you acquire the answers narrows down and maps where the insured sits in the universal realm of potential insured. Ok so they were trying to avoid being put on the back foot by minimising reliance on my assertions, but that is the essence of the car insurance deal you have to rely on Uberrima Fides, especially when dealing with first time customers.I think they were trying to get me to go elsewhere cause I didn't fit into their business model - even though their principal Aviva is supposed to be retired and unemployed friendly ( a bit like Saga, they are old people friendly too. Especially when they pay over the oods)

Also it was apparent that it was the front office (sales consultant) driving a volume operation with the customer being handed-off to a less capable back-office, who obviously didn't trust the validity of detail they were being handed by their sales colleagues i.e. sales consultants may be recruiting customers who are outwith the scope of the business model and therfore the back-office staff start heavily petitioning the customer for information.

Only time will tell whether the assurances of insurance company executives can equal or outstrip those of second-hand car salesmen.

Quite honestly, the insurance industry's model of society, particularly in respect of the unemployed, seems to be out-to-lunch. It seems to be skewed mainly towards the "Squeezed middle" families, two cars, provincial.

The idea that the majority of people who are unemployed could afford to use a car whilst unemployed for any length of time, or would use the car more than the daily commute that had previously undertaken whilst in employment is ridiculous. Or that the risk of using a car outside the main commuting rush hours is inherently more risky than using it for commuting - sounds if Dave, George or the Department of Work and Pensions has been giving some private macro economic advice to the insurance companies ahead of this week's meeting at No 10 (How's the economy going to expand again if we restrict the economic activities of the baby boomers who are on the verge of or who have just retired?). Last time I was unemployed (1990), when jobs where relatively plentiful ( The Telegraph used to have a separate jobs supplement and local wrags were full of stuff), I was lucky to get one interview a week (Correction, a month) and 9 75% of those were attended using public transport - mainly because I live in Outer London.

This time round, NFC.

If you are going to use "Expert" statistics make them bl**dy expert.

Excoriation session over.

Nick

Edited 21 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

I found them a lot dearer than most last time round .Despite the fact that I'm able to got to the "AGED" sites ,I find most of them expensive . I even got a quote from one of them ,because they offered my a good bit off my house contents . Took the house policy ,obviously .Couldn't beat any of the Horned invaders on the car . Strangley ,my daughter found this as well .But ,the fact that she's got an old dad ,with a lot of NCB and a clean licence helps. She got a quote for herself ,then asked what it would be with me as named .Bingo - £100 less .

I found the same problem when I was made redundant .Being unemployed is another reason for the insurance companies to add more on . Since I was geting Pension credit ,I claimed Retired ,and got another discount .

But ,beware of another scam .I decided to phone the broker since i was named on daughter's policy with that broker .And on the medical section , there was nowhere to disclose diabetes 2 ,on tablets . Behause I phoned ,and didn't get an on line deal , the premium rose £10 .

Edited 18 February, 201214 yr by VWD

Jesus! What a SAGA, if you'll forgive the pun

I've just been looking around for new insurance and Be Wiser gave me their cheapest quote at £1300. My current renewal quote is £577.

They phoned me a day later and I told them that their cheapest quote was £1300 so I wasn't interested but she said they could apply "loads of discounts". Hmmmm, really?

Anyway, I got put on hold while I assumed she was tapping a computer to arrange "the discounts" but 3 minutes later I was still on hold so I ended the call and vowed to dismiss them. After reading this I can see I made the right decision.

Hope it all gets sorted for you

Jesus! What a SAGA, if you'll forgive the pun

I've just been looking around for new insurance and Be Wiser gave me their cheapest quote at £1300. My current renewal quote is £577.

They phoned me a day later and I told them that their cheapest quote was £1300 so I wasn't interested but she said they could apply "loads of discounts". Hmmmm, really?

Anyway, I got put on hold while I assumed she was tapping a computer to arrange "the discounts" but 3 minutes later I was still on hold so I ended the call and vowed to dismiss them. After reading this I can see I made the right decision.

Hope it all gets sorted for you

It is a Saga, mainly of my making - but, honestly, nothing compared with the paper-chasees that had to be endured at my former place of work - The Ministry of militarised fun. I think most people would have just given them the thumbs down and moved on, as you did,- based on the initial customer service experience alone. But I wanted to try to get to the bottom of this so I would have the definitive SP for next year ('cause, at that point, I'll still be one year away from proper retirement (i.e. receiving a pension)- obviously, by then, they'll probably have invented some other excuse for ripping-off the disadvantaged.But anyway,bit of fun for me, helps fill my day - so a theraputic thumbs up !

This over commercialised system that's currently being implemented in the UK is worse than living under a Nazi regime. At least they used to shoot or gas their slave workers when they were exhausted after 6 months of slave labour and starvation. This lot keep poking them with a bamboo stick - which I think is called torture - and we all know how bad the Foreign Office thinks that is. Pity the Department of Business Innovation and skills doesn't operate in the same moral framework as its companion ministry.

So here's today's message for DAVE, our fair weather insurance friend in No 10 (For five minutes this week, anyway, whilst his Andy Coulson replacement (Iian Martin)was sorting out next weeks headline grabbers), Sort out the *ffing car insurance parasites for real ! (Don't just play at it to grab the headlines) Its holding back economic recovery !

I 've noticed that Be Wiser have banner headlines on some of the web sites targetted at younger people. They're obviously trying to exploit the "Tearing-up £50 notes by getting the most outrageous quote you can" market segment.

Nick

Edited 19 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

All insurance companies are regulated by the FSA and financial ombudsman, as such there is a 14 day cooling off period. I would use this, pay a small short term fee and go elsewhere. If they are this difficult in setting up your policy imagine if you ever have to claim. Best of out of there even if you lose a few quid....

I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt at the moment and interpreting this difficulty as an unfortunate random incident of poor customer service.

If later that proves not to be the case, then I'll deal with it as necessary. I have already assembled all the details of who and what to contact in the event of any future difficulty as regards Aviva and the BIA and FSA.

Quite honestly, on the mileage I've done in the opening period of my retirement (30 miles in three weeks), if it continues like this, then I will find it hard to justify having a private motor car on cost grounds. Paying out £800-£900 a year just to do 500 miles is riduculous and well as the fact that using a car that way will screw the mechanicals.

I'll give it a year.

I may find in a years time that I ditch the motor and resort to biking it locally and hiring if and when I need one for the occasional longer journey.

Nick

Edited 20 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

They sent me an initial e-mail with terms and conditions and requested that I supply them with written confirmation of my NCB. By e-mail, I accepted the Ts and Cs and provided them with a copy of the e-mail renewal advice I received

[...]

They've charged my credit card the full annual premium, issued me with a Certificate of Motor Insurance and then keep on coming back to me with questions on my NCB

I'm sure you've realised by now that telling them about your NCB is not the same as providing proof, which in my experience has always meant sending them a bit of paper received from the previous insurance company. Sometimes it has been necessary to request a 'proof of NCB' letter from the old insurers so that I can send it to the new insurers. Every time there has been information to the effect that a photocopy is not acceptable.

Now we learn what the problem really was ? Its only taken a week of my time and 20 hrs on the 'puter to get there. And we are told that Private Industry is so much better than the Public service - you have got to be joking.

This all hinges around the insurance industry's view that unemployed people will travel more, and use the car to do so, than working people.

Presumably they've found that people in certain categories are more likely to make claims than others, and base their premiums accordingly - I'm sure you accept that when it's been in your favour. There are all sorts of nuances relating to employment and other use and maybe, for example, unemployed people tend to use their car to go to job interviews when it could be that they are more anxious and distracted than usual, and thus higher risk.

Show us the figures, we can pontificate on both sides of the argument till the cows come home. I'd love to see the figures that the insurance compnies' are using to support the propositions that unemployed have people a ) have greater usuage than normal "Commuting only" workers and more accidents and therefore claims. I'd especially like to see the figures for London.

I know from my own experience this proposition doesn't stack up:-

Employed 1978-1990

1 litre VW Golf 60BHP. Annual mileage 8000

1981-1990 Daily commuting up to a well known central London hospital from Outer London using the A40/Westway (11 miles each way between 0800-0930 and 1730-1900). No of accidents (All no fault on my part) en route 5. Other incidents 2 (Core plug blow-out whilst queqing in traffic and clutch failure damaging engine bulkhead) i.e. an average of 0.77 per year

Unemployed (with use of car) 1990 - 1996

Annual mileage 1500.

Approximately 30 job interviews attended (75% using public transport). Remainder in car. Accidents and other incidents zero.

Employed 1998-2012

1.4 litre Fabia 100 BHP Annual mileage 7000.

Daily commute from outer London to military headquarters in London outer fringe (Inside M25). 6 miles each way using mainly "B" roads between 08:15 to 10.00 and 17:00-19:00. Accidents 1 (Whilst reversing I grazed parked car on base). Other incidents 3 (No fault against me. Large tree branch fell on boot in base car park, woman in suzuki jeep backed into be in Waitrose car park and windscreen split following uplifted stone damage on M40).Average per year 0.29

If anything I'd say this suggests that unemployed in London are significantly less likely to have an accident or incident compared with straightfoward commuting. And that accidents are correlated more with age, are not correlated with power of the car and show a stronger correlation with usuage and traffic density than employment status.

So there.

Nick

Edited 21 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick

Show us the figures...

They won't.

Have you noticed that they always use the word 'may' in almost all statements.

Unemployed drivers may be more likely to ignore/put off essential maintenance of their cars. BTW, that was the reason that ABI gave in recent interviews.

Again, love to see the stats on that - which are probably based on extrapolations for the rest of the population drawn from the Police records of the 2% of tearaways pulled over whilst on the road.

To me, this all sounds like "Do you know they eat their first-born as well" i.e. a centrally organised smear

In my case when I had the Golf, once the warranty had expired I did all the servicing, at the prescribed intervals (If not geater) myself and it passed the MOT first time 9 times out of 10.

And I just had a main dealer service done on the Fab (Must be mad).

I wonder if Dave or George have ever done their own servicing - bets on that both of them don't know a dual mass flywheel from their articulating sprockets, even with their ties tucked in and sleeves rolled-up.

Nick

Edited 21 February, 201214 yr by Clunkclick