Sorry, I am drunk, but I have noticed a few things about this car lately.

Its been much better since I made the constant effort to keep it above 2000 rpm lately, much better performance. Does the ECU learn on each drive?

The reason I ask is because when I baby it from cold (ie. keep the revs very low) then it never seems that good to drive.

Just lately, I have taken it just past 3000 rpm even when cold, and the car drives much better for the remainder of the journey. Doing this ensures you keep the turbo going, so you get much faster acceleration.

Sometimes, if the car doesnt feel too good, if I turn off the engine, turn it back on, and drive it hard, it suddenly seems much better.

Is it true that the ECU adapts to your driving style? If so it must do it on each drive?

Also, since keeping the car above 2000 rpm at all times, my fuel economy has actually slightly improved, even though its noisier and less relaxed doing it this way!

There has been alot of speculation, I remember being told on an old Mk5 Escort I used to drive after it had been back to Ford to have some work done on the engine that I need to allow the car time to learn my driving style. Saying that some people seem to think this is rubbish. Not really got a definative answer.

PS Raging a car from cold is never a good idea as the pistons and engine block expand at different rates as they are made from different materials so you could cause premature engine ware.

I drive between 2k & 3k most of the time, and fuel economy never drops below 45, performance is fine. The only exception is I take it easy for the last 2 or 3 minutes to let the turbo chill out a bit.

It'll be years before any abuse you put on it becomes apparent, and you'll be driving a MK4 Fabia vRS by then

I'm not sure that the ECU adapts per drive, they do adapt but over a long period of time - they're a bit thick in that respect!

I'm not sure that the ECU adapts per drive' date=' they do adapt but over a long period of time - they're a bit thick in that respect![/quote']

:confused:

I would perfer an ECU that averages over a greater time than one that averages over 1 drive.

Apart from the first week when I didn't know any better, I always try to make sure the revs stay above 2000. Except for when I first start off, 'cos you'd need 3500 rpm in first to keep it above 2000 rpm when you change to second, which ain't a brilliant idea on a cold engine!!!

The rest of the time though, 2000-3000rpm, and maybe up to 4000rpm or more when overtaking (helps keep the injectors and exhaust clear, according to Honest John). After about 12,000 miles. I get around 45 mpg on the weekly rounds, which is a bit disappointing, but I do have a lot of motorway roadworks to contend with at the moment. Acceleration-wise, I reckon that although it obviously doesn't rev as high as a petrol car, it gets through the rev range as quickly as a petrol car, and obviously with all the torque it'll out-accelerate most 'ordinary' things in an overtaking dash.

Having nothing to compare it to, I don't know if the performance would change if I drove differently, but apart from maybe wishing the mpg was closer the 50+ that some people on here get, I'm very happy with how it reacts to my driving style!

I've only babied mine for about a week and that was when it looked like a fuel shortage was imminent about a year ago and I was trying to get make the tank last as long as possible.... other than that it gets regularly taken up to 4k and I see 50+mpg on all but the most enthusiastic drives, and there is absolutely no smoke from the exhaust under acceleration!

Chris

Yep, I dont get any smoke from mine either, and my driving style sounds similar to yours Chris

As for damaging the engine, one thing I think a lot of people dont think about is that, in reality surely 3000 in a diesel is no more damaging than 3000 rpm in a petrol, even though 3000 rpm in a diesel is a greater portion of its overall rev range. I take mine up to 3500 rpm at most when cold, but take it to at least 3000 rpm before changing gear. I cant see that what I am doing will cause that much harm. When its warm, I just let it have some revs

Note: I've just read back earlier reply, and what I meant was that Ikeep it below 3000rpm when I first start up, which means that the revs drop to about 1600 when I change from first to second and so I sometimes drive below 2000rpm while accelerating. I didn't mean I never go above 2000 rpm when the engine is cold - not only it that probably a bit of a silly thing to do, I bet the engine would never actually warm up!

Guy i work with has a degree in electronic design and engineering and has worked with the chips used for ECU's. They are constantly learning and adapting to your style, so for example on a petrol car where you experience knocking, the car will learn at what rev's it happens and how often you do it and will almost learn to predict it, thus making it more efficient.

If you want a good example, you can reset it learnt parameters by just removing the car battery for about 30 mins or so - then you will see what its actually learnt. This is all because its in a form of RAM not the flashable ROM

Boring i know but i'll bring my car up... Because its got a tiptronic box with 6 gears, from the factory it will not allow you to go along at 41mph in 6th - always changes down for you to 5th. Over time i have driven it from 50mph all the way down to 40 in 6th and now it wont change down for me until a lower speed is reached.

Edit: I have just found out that the term "learning" is actually the cars ECU responding to certain parameters which trigger instruction subsets.

Guy i work with has a degree in electronic design and engineering and has worked with the chips used for ECU's. They are constantly learning and adapting to your style' date=' so for example on a petrol car where you experience knocking, the car will learn at what rev's it happens and how often you do it and will almost learn to predict it, thus making it more efficient.

[/quote']

They already have a sensor for knocking, and funily it's called a knock sensor. It detects if the petrol you are using is of good quality when being combusted, it them adjusts the timing to compensate.

I worked out and posted on another thread that going over 3,000rpm seemed no point in most gears because you would get more speed changing gear

I worked out and posted on another thread that going over 3,000rpm seemed no point in most gears because you would get more speed changing gear

Except max bhp (130) is produced at 4k revs!

Chris

I worked out and posted on another thread that going over 3,000rpm seemed no point in most gears because you would get more speed changing gear

When I first got the car, I'd have agreed, but I reckon I get strong acceleration up to about 3750rpm now, which means that a 50-75 sprint in 4th is a viable proposition (just over 6 seconds - eat soot, BMW-man!!!) If it is the ECU 'learning', and not just my imagination, of course!

when you work out the in gear performance its the gearing gives a lot higher torque between the revs of 2k - 3k rpm so you want to keep it in this rev range

try it out if you don't believe me change each gear early so it puts you right back at 2k rpm ready for the next boost of torque (changing gear around 2,500rpm - 3k rpm)

then try changing gear at 4k rpm (high BHP) and i'll bet you the Torque changing is quicker

when you work out the in gear performance its the gearing gives a lot higher torque between the revs of 2k - 3k rpm so you want to keep it in this rev range

try it out if you don't believe me change each gear early so it puts you right back at 2k rpm ready for the next boost of torque (changing gear around 2' date='500rpm - 3k rpm)

then try changing gear at 4k rpm (high BHP) and i'll bet you the Torque changing is quicker[/quote']

I have tried this as well, and in general yes in most cases you wont really need to go much further than 3,000 rpm for day to day driving.

Nevertheless, revving it around to at least 4,000 is not only faster (and I will happily prove this if anyone wanted) but often recommended because it supposedly helps prevent soot build up.

I just hope you dont go somewhere like Santa Pod and try changing up at 3,000 rpm, because you'll be lucky to crack 20 second quarter mile if you do that

Lets look at this properly though. Say I come across another Furby on a motorway, and it decides to play. So, we come to the end of a "slow" section, both cars doing 50 mph. One car is in 4th, the other in 5th. The car in fourth gear starts at approx 2,300 rpm, the car in 5th starts at 1,900 rpm (peak torque according to the manufacturer). By your theory, because of the torque, you would accelerate faster in 5th. However, look at the 50-70 time in 4th and 5th and you will clearly see 4th is still quicker. So the car in 4th may get to 70 mph some 2 seconds (ish) earlier, so has already pulled ahead. By this stage the car in 5th gear decides to stay in peak torque and puts it into 6th, dropping the revs to 2,200 rpm, so again in the peak torque band. The other car stays in 4th gear, and does so until it hits 90 mph, revving to just past 4,000 rpm. By this stage, the car still in 4th gear would be pulling away at a siginificant rate of knots, agreed?

Sorry to go on about this, but it does seem to me like some people really believe that you should always change up early for the fastest performance; that might be the case with some diesels, in particular older ones, but in my experience, the Fabia vRS can be treat much like a petrol and return very impressive performance.

Personally, I believe in always keeping the revs at 2200 or over for the best performance, and a smooth, progressive throttle action helps the car rev to its redline smoothly and effortlessly. If you change up too early, the revs may end up dropping too low - for example, I find if I change up and the revs drop to about 1800, just below the manufacturers peak torque figure, then there is a slight delay in it picking up again, and this can slow you right down, because you also lose some momentum.

Also to add, when I first got the car, I had read similar thoughts to this, and drove the car similarly, and it took me a little while, but eventually I realised that this is not the right way to drive fast. I used to boot it from 1500, and then feel the surge at 2000, only to have it seemingly die off straight away. If you keep the revs above 2000, use a smooth throttle action, and drive smoothly, and the car eagerly revs all the way to nearly 4000 rpm. There is a definite 'way' to drive a diesel, and it is radically different to a petrol.

I can always tell diesels that are babied all their lives, because they put their foot down, unleash a huge cloud of soot and dont actually start accelerating for a second or two, whereas in that 2 seconds they wasted waiting for the turbo to spool up, I am already past

Chavvy - but ultimatly controled by the ECU - sensor depicts input device whereas the ecu contains the instruction sets to control this depending on the severity of it.

another way to look at it is get some gear ratios and a torque graph and work out the peak revs to change gear

I'll still say that changing so it hits 2k rpm is about right but you saying about 5th was something i noticed in the other thread and that was 5th wasn't needed and you would change from 4th to 6th at about 67mph around 3k rpm

i've tryed the keeping it up til 4k and the car just dies changing gear and it takes off but you end up changing quite quickly after this because your gear change is from 4k to around 3k to 3,500 so missing the peak torque

so actually what im saying is change gear so that when you change the revs hit the peak torque of the furby which ends up meaning you change around 2,750rpm and 3,250 rpm

I'd be willing to test this with some one who wants to meet and try the different ideas

I have to agree with the general train of thought here. Torque is the pushing force that gets you going, but power keeps you accelerating and in a standard VRS, you need to go to 4000 rpm for the quickest acceleration.

In my REVO'd VRS using all 5200rpm is very effective in 3rd, 4th and 5th, but changing at 4000 is certainly better than short shifting early......

FACT.

The PD100 may be different, but my car will pull to 4k so if I change there, it will drop down to 2.7 k ish. At this point the turbo is already spinning nicely and the car will simply continue pulling. Changing any earlier means the revs drop to 2k ish so you get a shove in the back from the next gear, but mainly because you've lost momentum and you're relying on the torque to get the car moving, and the turbo spinning again.....

Is this the same on the vRS?

Chris

5th wasn't needed and you would change from 4th to 6th at about 67mph around 3k rpm

I do this five or six times every day when accelerating on the motorway. 4th will quite happily pull me all the way from about 47-48 mph up to the legal limit, and then I plonk it in 6th to cruise. 5th almost never gets used on the motorway; only on single carriageways where the limit is 60, so 6th gear is too high...

The PD100 may be different' date=' but my car will pull to 4k so if I change there, it will drop down to 2.7 k ish. At this point the turbo is already spinning nicely and the car will simply continue pulling. Changing any earlier means the revs drop to 2k ish so you get a shove in the back from the next gear, but mainly because you've lost momentum and you're relying on the torque to get the car moving, and the turbo spinning again.....

Is this the same on the vRS?

Chris[/quote']

Similar really, I'd say in mine, if you take it to 4,000 rpm in each gear, then it would drop down to 2,500 rpm going into second, 2,750 rpm going into third, 3,000 going into 4th, 3,250 (I'm guessing now) into 5th... you get the idea...

Now, if you were to change to take advantage of peak torque, to let revs drop down to 2,000 at the start, you'd need to accelerate to 3,500 in 1st, 3,200 in 2nd, 2,900 in 3rd, 2,700 or so in 4th, and 2,500 in 5th... but to me, even though you can still go quite fast doing this (this is where the car is most unlike other hot hatches), its clearly still slower than revving to at least 4,000. I dunno about anyone else's vRS, but even my standard car pulls strong just past 4,000 (if anything, it has very strong acceleration between 3500-4000), maybe about 4,300 or so seems to be the point at which it becomes breathless if anything.

The Furby doesnt really differ much from any other car when trying to extract its maximum performance - simply go through the gears and rev as high as you need to in order to exploit the most power for the most time possible - and this sometimes means revving past peak power, the car still produces some meaningful power up to about 4,500 according to plots I've seen, where IIRC the power only tails off about 10 bhp from peak @ 4,500. The result of this is, when you change up, you will be dropped straight into the point where the motor is producing most power. Depending on what gear you are in, if you change at say 4000 rpm or just under, you will drop to a point where the engine is producing significantly less power than even 4,500.

ok I got to put some miles on the car by next Sat (20,000 service coming up) I'll have a play and get someone with a stop watch to time me between 2 points on a road

I've got a nice straight peice of road thats all open try traction on /off changing gear to hit 2k rpm or hit 2,500 rpm or redlining or changing at 4k rpm

ok I got to put some miles on the car by next Sat (20' date='000 service coming up) I'll have a play and get someone with a stop watch to time me between 2 points on a road

I've got a nice straight peice of road thats all open try traction on /off changing gear to hit 2k rpm or hit 2,500 rpm or redlining or changing at 4k rpm[/quote']

Excellent - someone abusing their own car, for the benefit of the community Look forward to hearing the results

Chris

Check this out, keeping the revs in the red box is clearly where you want to keep the revs for the fastest acceleration. The bottom line is a standard car, and the top line is a remapped one.