Went for the 500s as you can just see you can see the yellow of the high beam ahead, just need some normal extra bright main beams now to match the dip, these are fitted to SWMBO s Superb

Edited 27 March, 201214 yr by skippy41

Put relays on the main beam, next to headlights, with (fused) thick power cable to battery. High beams are not monitored, so no ECU warnings. The only hassle is running the cable from battery, you need both positive and negative as the front carrier is plastic. I went through firewall next to brake lines, then behind washer fluid bottle into the inside of wheel well, then into the bumper. Make sure you leave long enough cable for TB job to be possible (front in service mode position).

You get 2x more light and ~40% further throw even from ordinary bulbs in this way, as the "normal" voltage on the high beams is under 11V. Relayed voltage is 13.8V if you use thick enough cables.

You will also reduce load on headlight switch and increase voltage for your HIDs and stop them flickering momentarily when main beam is switched on, as believe it or not the high beam is powered straight off the low beam feed. If you want to make this mod extra nice, put 9A bypass Schottky diodes in parallel to relays (1x diode from car's harness, stripey end to each light). This will reduce inrush current (as relays connect only after about 5ms-10ms) and make bulbs last longer.

Then you can still put aftermarket bulbs if required, just stick to under 65W as anything over 90W will slowly melt the plastic around bulb opening. Daft idea to put plastic there given the reflector is magnesium and could stand 150W+.

I went a step further and am running the high beams at 16.5V, but to go this far you need soft start electronics and boost converter. Instant 3000 lumen per light from standard 12V/55W H3 bulbs, about 85W actual power used, much better colour.

Even 100W HIDs (which I have tried in these housings too) have actually shorter throw than H3 at 16.5V as the peak intensity is smaller for HID compared to halogen. The price is bulb longevity, but main beams are easiest to replace and will last over a year at 16.5V anyway, even with intensive use.

Edited 28 March, 201214 yr by dieselV6

?????????????Thanks for that but the high beam bulbs are original so possibly some fresh one might do the trick

Possibly some of those halford extra bright ones or some others that someone my suggest.

Are the sidelights monitored what LED ones are best

PS whats wrong with the typing mode I cannot get rid of the line in the centre

Edited 28 March, 201214 yr by skippy41

Just click "crossed S" on top bar, happens to me sometime too.

Better bulbs (Osram Nightbreakers H3 if you really have to) won't improve much, Superb's main beams are pitiful, too low voltage and small reflector in headlamp. Mk1 Octavia high beams were tons better.

Best not to use LED sidelights, as the plastic at the back of them will evaporate and foul up main beam reflector over time (takes a few months to notice). If you really have to use LEDs, you need to find metal jacketed LEDs with alumina rear connector (not plastic).

Other than messing up the high beam reflector, you can use any LED you like provided the rear lamps are either bulbs or LEDs with ~25R resistors, I think the monitoring might look at front+rear together.

I had LEDs front, LEDs rear and 25R per side resistor for a while, now I reverted to bulbs in front after I noticed fouling.

Edit:

I noticed you might be posting in the wrong forum. Unless you managed to get hold of one of the few Skoda Superb Mk1 Estate prototypes

Mk2 Superb has all lights monitored, so yes, Osram Nightbreaker H3 are your best bet.

Or a set of auxilliaries, or a lot of electronics to fool Canbus monitoring (I am working on that for a Roomster now).

Edited 28 March, 201214 yr by dieselV6

Its SWMBOs Superb, the Octys mine

Put relays on the main beam, next to headlights, with (fused) thick power cable to battery. High beams are not monitored, so no ECU warnings. The only hassle is running the cable from battery, you need both positive and negative as the front carrier is plastic. I went through firewall next to brake lines, then behind washer fluid bottle into the inside of wheel well, then into the bumper. Make sure you leave long enough cable for TB job to be possible (front in service mode position).

You get 2x more light and ~40% further throw even from ordinary bulbs in this way, as the "normal" voltage on the high beams is under 11V. Relayed voltage is 13.8V if you use thick enough cables.

You will also reduce load on headlight switch and increase voltage for your HIDs and stop them flickering momentarily when main beam is switched on, as believe it or not the high beam is powered straight off the low beam feed. If you want to make this mod extra nice, put 9A bypass Schottky diodes in parallel to relays (1x diode from car's harness, stripey end to each light). This will reduce inrush current (as relays connect only after about 5ms-10ms) and make bulbs last longer.

Then you can still put aftermarket bulbs if required, just stick to under 65W as anything over 90W will slowly melt the plastic around bulb opening. Daft idea to put plastic there given the reflector is magnesium and could stand 150W+.

I went a step further and am running the high beams at 16.5V, but to go this far you need soft start electronics and boost converter. Instant 3000 lumen per light from standard 12V/55W H3 bulbs, about 85W actual power used, much better colour.

Even 100W HIDs (which I have tried in these housings too) have actually shorter throw than H3 at 16.5V as the peak intensity is smaller for HID compared to halogen. The price is bulb longevity, but main beams are easiest to replace and will last over a year at 16.5V anyway, even with intensive use.

Intresting maywell give the relay thing a go.

As dieselV6 said, running relays from battery directly to the headlights is highly recommended and not at all a complicated job in my opinion. I'm running HID in all my lights, high, fog etc. and they all use balasts which will always, because of the driver, put out the voltage needed if the input is between 9 - 40 volts. I'm still running relays to all of the balasts though, because the ground connection in the headlights is so bad, that sometimes the balast wont fire. After the relays had been fitted i've never had an issue.

About the 11V high beams. It's true, that when running the car normally it only puts out about 11V, but if you switch to night driving and switch on dashboard lighting etc. the voltage increases to about 13.5V. The 11V is to increase the life span of your halogen bulbs. Problem is just the fact, that the headlight wiring is only 1 carats which is not nearly enough for the ground connection, hence the bad light output.

My HID's are 55W (4300 Kelvin) and puts out 5000 lumen per light (testet). They dont last as long as usual, but It's like driving in a computer game and the bulbs are cheap to replace, $15 a pair... :-)

My only gripes about main beam HIDs (not dipped beam) are that they tend to warm up for a while on initial application, and that despite producing much more light, the HIDs do not really give more range (throw). This is because the reflector is designed for point/linear source, while HID discharge / vapor cloud is spherical and considerably larger. The result is that the HID light is not focused very well.

On my car, I also have 2x 100W HID main beam auxilliaries (Hella Micro Xenon, fitted with 70W D2S HID bulbs (GHC) overdriven by 105W/95W ballasts). These provide general ligthing (read: daytime at night ) at up to 500m away, and are strong enough to burn a hole in black trousers at close range :sun: (tested twice ).

But at further ranges, lighting from the car's main beam H3s overdriven to 16.5V is better quality, and of course instant-on.

The colour reproduction is better with halogens than with HIDs, so you tend to notice the potential roadblock/roadkill faster(deer, wildboars, and foxes mostly where I use these lights ). With both sets on, anything at up to 800m+ range is clearly visible and recognizable. More importantly, whenever I drive through a forest, there is enough light on the road to light up the entire "tree corridor" and drive at full speed.

Before modding the high beams I measured the voltage at the main beam bulb while it is on, the highest I measured was on flash only, no other lights, about 12V, this is with engine on and battery fully charged, battery at 13.8V. As soon as you try "normal" high beams, ie with low beams on, you get under 11V as the high beams tap off the low beam output on headlight switch, you get 20A+ going through relatively thin cables to the switch so voltage drop is larger. With 85W HID kit on low beams, the voltage on high beams was actually 10.5V. I estimate there is about 1V voltage drop on cables, another ~0.8V on switches, fuses and their feed, and an additional 1V+ (1.5V for 85W low beams) on stealing power from low beam circuit (main beams stalk away from driver). So yes, putting relays and separate power/ground from battery does make sense.

In terms of difficulty and cost, here are the jobs in order of cost/complication

1. Osram Nightbreaker/NB+ H3 bulbs (more light, more range), cost ~GBP20/10min, +10% range
   
2. High beam relays and Pos/Neg cable/fuse to battery (more light, more range, can be used with 1) , cost GBP20/1h , +40% range
   
3. HID kit on main beams (more light, same/less range/throw) , cost GBP50/2h, +0% range
   
4. decent auxilliaries that can be hidden in the grille, cost GBP100 - GBP300 / 2h, +20% - +70% range
   
5. overdriving main beams to 16V+ , cost GBP100 / 10h because you need to make a "magic box" with electronics inside, +70% - +90% range.
   

I am working on another way of boosting all lights (main, fog, dipped, and whatever else is required) on CanBus equipped cars, but will have a chance to try it in June at earliest, on the Roomster I ordered for my wife. While I still intend to use low beam HID kit there (H7 projectors, 50W/4300K), boosting voltage actually reduces the current HID ballast takes from Central Electrics unit, reducing risk of melting down the BCM/J519.

On that car, I intend to keep H7 main beams and H8 fogs, just overdrive them to 16V or so for double stock light output.

If I were to buy auxilliaries again, Hella Micro Premium Xenon are focused better than standard ones, up to 500m, I'd use them with stock 35HID bulbs but aftermarket 50W ballasts to ensure faster warmup (and shorten bulb lifetime to about 700hrs, which is many car years for main beam). They are hidieously expensive, though, overloading stock main beam bulbs works out a lot cheaper. But the're small enough not to stick out like a sore.

How's that for information exchange

So could I simply replace my standard dip beam HID bulbs (35w) with higher power ones (50w if there is such a thing?) without any problems or would I have to fit new ballast, etc. Plus would the extra heat cause problems?

Thanks.

You need 50W ballast, not the bulb. 35W HID bulbs will stand 50W but lifetime will be reduced approx 3x. Ballast is what controls the power, not the bulb.

I dont understand your argument against range on HID's. I have 1000 meters visible range after i upgraded. My installation is exactly as focused as the halogen was. In my opinion maybe a little too well focused as it tends to "kill" other drivers. I can also see any animal, roadblock and/or roadkill long before i get any close.

On an other note, there is a fine line as how much light your eye can handle. Your 2 x 100W HID test is way over the limit of what your eyes can handle. This means your eyes and brain will start to "ignore" the light and you will squint your eyes together. This is a medical fact. Anything above 10000 lumens and it will be too much. Check it out yourself via google if needed. :-)

I've driven with overdrive HID's (70W) for about 6 months before one of the balasts burned. Shortly after no. 2 burned and i decided to get legit 55W which can handle the output. I wasn't pleased with the 70W; in my opinion too much light.. hehe

Before i upgrade the output voltage on my headlights daytime was 11.1V. Nighttime it was 13.7V.

On an other note, there is a fine line as how much light your eye can handle.

That is a valid point and especially at night - I remember some years ago having a bank of auxilliary lights on my car and at night when driving with them on and meeting a car coming the other way it was distincly dodgy - I'd turn them off and go back to just dipped beam it took a few seconds before my eyes got accustomed to the much lower light levels to the extent that I became somewhat 'blind' for a few seconds.

I got round it by learning to check the lie of the road ahead before switching the Aux lighting off but it's certainly something I'd think about now before significantly upgrading main beams over and above the dipped ones.

Guys

It's main beams, or high beams we are talking here, you are not supposed to light them in the face of other drivers - ever!

The other arguments re intensity, again, the intensity limit got recently raised from ref number 75 to ref number 100 for all lights. Refer to Euro regs My lights just about fit under the new limit, but in fact you could have 10kilowatt lights and still fit in the limit as long as the beam is spread out enough. It is an intensity limit not total amount of light.

It does not matter how many lumens main beams emit, as long as these lumens do not end up all in a single spot on the road that is blinding you back. This is actually a single good argument for having auxilliaries as you can aim them sideways and upwards a little.

The 13.7V that you measured must be voltage without main beam H3 bulb in holder, if measured at bulb. When the H3 bulb is connected and lit , voltage across the bulb is under 12V, down to 10.5V extreme unless you use relays. your 11.1V must have been unloaded (no bulb in holder) DRL voltage. Either this, or you got a personalized special edition Superb either already fully relayed or with 5x thicker wiring as the voltage on battery is 13.8V. To get just 0.1V drop through the entire cables/switches/fuses you'd need 5mm thick cables per light. The voltages I quoted earlier are on a loaded bulb.

Finally, regarding range of HIDs vs range of halogens, yes you get a lot more light from HIDs but not much more range, because the brightest spot projected by HID is not much brighter than the brightest spot projected by halogens, especially ones driven at 13V+. Walk away 200m or so from the car and use light meter (lux meter) there - I did, and even 75W HID H3 inserts were easily beaten by halogen H3s at 16V.

In fact, HIDs in main beams if left in the same setting as stock will reduce your effective range as you get a lot of light dumped right in front of you. My car's auxiliaries are pointed slightly upwards for that reason, they're mainly for ambient lighting, the halogens do road lighting.

The argument that HIDs are just as focused in reflector high beam housing is pure nonsense - even with decent H3 inserts you can see e.g. on garage wall that the amount of light going sideways away from driving direction is far greater. HIDs work better in projectors anyway.

With HIDs, all you get is lots of light closer to the car, masking darker areas away from the car. That's why I went down the 16.5V halogen route. I actually would've downgraded the auxiliaries down to 50W/35W bulb now as frankly they're a bit overkill though offer great ambient lighting as they're aimed upwards, but I need the 50W ballasts for the Roomster and the 100Ws if lifted up and spread slightly provide much better roadside view.

Finally, yes, if I was doing it again I'd first overvoltage the main beam bulbs, then added Micro Xenons Premium edition at "only" 50W, and it would be enough light and better road lighting as the light would be projected further away. When I say e.g. 800m range, it is 800m at 1 lux, enough to read newspaper (this is standard how Hella measures their lights), it probably is more like 2.5km actual range on flat terrain in darkness (after adapting eyes people normally can see down to 0.1lux without problems).

Edited 29 March, 201214 yr by dieselV6

Yes the measurements were without bulb, just fyi.

In my opinion the HID's are better because I think that light output is better (I have not measured Lux on greater distance). Anything reflective, eyes, white clothing, signs, the white stripe on the road etc. gives a lot better feedback when using HID's, specially 4300K. Then comes the rain, where HID really comes in handy... Also colors are extremely "correct" - i mean green is actually green and so forth.

Anyways looks like we're not gonna agree on this ever, so i'll leave it here. :-)

Thought we were discussing both main and high beam btw.

Edit: I'll see if i can make some decent night pictures with my new camera in a couple of weeks. (If the wife will let me borrow it hehehe)

Edited 29 March, 201214 yr by Cown

For clarity:

main beam = high beam = driving light, it is not dipped.

dipped beam = low beam

HIDs do produce a lot more light (50W kit produces 2.5x output of relayed main beams), but more light does not translate to more range because hotspot is not as intensive.

When cold (first 30s-60s before all metal salts in the bulb fully vaporize) the HID light is of poor colour.

Fully warmed up HIDs do have good colour (halogens are still reference though, e.g in photography). However, warmed up means 2min+ for HID, and typically if you have traffic from ahead you have to switch main beam off quite often so they are never fully warmed up. Halogens produce great colour from switch on.

Because HIDs discharge glow area is much bigger than the halogen bulb's filament centre (the hot spot), a reflector designed for halogen will not focus HID as well, resulting in more light going sideways when HID is used in halogen reflector housing.

Fundamentally, HIDs are great for dipped beam and projectors, halogens still win in a main beam reflector designed for halogen. HIDs in dipped beams and halogen intended reflectors invariably result in excessive glare.

Note there exist aux main beam reflector designs for HIDs too, they just have to be designed with ball light source rather than point source in mind.

Edited 29 March, 201214 yr by dieselV6

You are absolutely right about those statements. And the warm up was a bit annoying in the first few months, now i don't actually think much about it.

So what exactly did you do with the high beam? Standard 55W H3 halogen with a driver putting out 16V with direct relay from battery?

More or less, standard 55W bulb, individual soft-starting dc-dc driver (aka boost charger, start below 10V, 14V-20V steady-state, adjustable) per lamp, relayed from battery and bypassed with diodes, switched in line just before the fuses in the fuse box.

To be honest, now that I wrote it, it does not sound like 10hr effort, for me it was more effort because I also have DRLs on high beams (also dc-dc reg, about 3.5V) and dark current circuit (under 1.5V across bulbs) to increase lifetime of the bulbs.

I also wired 2 sets of iso plugs in such way that the electronics can be taken out and the harness reconnected, so no tools required to remove it from the car if things go wrong on a trip. The electronics box sits above fuse box, accessible via same cover as the fuse box, and is mounted on magnets to the dashboard carrier.

Note 16.5V at the lamp means over 18V on fuse box side, or when the bulb is disconnected. You need an additional resistor in line with blue telltale, 220R-330R. Or of course you could do this mod next to the lights, in engine bay, but I already had auxilliaries HW/cabling there so preferred the in-cabin solution and reusing the fuses.

Some useful calculations:

Bulb efficiency increases to 3rd power of voltage, so (16.5V/13.2V)^3 = 2x more rated light output,

or (16.5V/10.5V)^3 = 4x more previous light output.

Bulb longevity decreases with 13th power of voltage, so (16.5V/13.2V)^13 = 18x shorter lifetime, ie about 40hrs for standard bulbs (ca700hrs rated), more for longlife bulbs, less for "premium" bulbs.

Bulb power increases to 1.5th power of voltage, so (16.5V/13.2V)^1.5 = 1.4x more rated power, or about 80W.

The above equations work for 10V - 18V range for all bulbs as long as they are soft started, I actually measured light output, power, and lifetime before doing this mod, my research cost about 12 H3 bulbs

Soft start is essential above 14V, especially "premium" bulbs blow quickly above 17V unloaded voltage. Also, do not use more than 17V with "longlife" bulbs, they will indeed last longer but then explode at the end (I had this consistent result with no less than 3 Philips Longlife I tested, below 17V they're fine and just go out at the end of life, good thing I tested in makeshift aluminium housing not the car's lamp).

As long as we are talking the same H3 bulb, 4x improvement in lighting means 2x improvement in range (square root).

From the equations above, it is clear that a cheap bulb running relayed (say at 13.5V) is outputting (13.5/11)^3 = 1.8x more light than stock install (or next to 50W HID kit). Given that "premium" lamps do not have more than 50% peak intensity, the relayed cheap bulb will give better range. Of course, you can put relays and a premium bulb, that will give you 50% more range.

Edited 30 March, 201214 yr by dieselV6

Thx mate, what about heat?

Do not exceed 90W at bulbs, there is a plastic ring around H3 bulb opening, this will slowly distort and melt above 90W. The actual reflector is magnesium so will be OK even for much larger powers.

The dc-dc converters do heat up, as do the diodes. I used black anodised box , about 120mmx40mmx80mm as a case and a heatsink, plus the box sits on a heatsink pad and dumps some heat to steel dashboard carrier (big lump of metal under/in front of dashboard). But as long as the converters are reasonably efficient, 90%+, not some older 75% designs, you should be OK.

I stress tested the box to 120W per light, even under these conditions temp rise was under 45deg, so normally it won't be more than 30 deg above ambient. Mind you, ambient temp above fuse box is 40deg -50deg.

Heat problem / lack of it depends on how much money you want to throw at the project, there exist adjustable dc-dc converters with 95%+ efficiency. If you go for 2 separate boxes at lights, you can get suitable boost chargers / dc-dc converters from ebay for under 10 quid each.

Edited 30 March, 201214 yr by dieselV6

Some very good discussions above!

On a related subject, I want to improve my bixenon dipped beam, the bulbs have never been changed and the car is 10 yrs old and done 102k miles.

I am considering replacing the bulbs, is there any mileage in those £15 a pair D2S bulbs from ebay or is it really worth spending £50-60 for Hella or Philips, and risk that these might actually be replicas... Would a genuinine Philips/Hella be better than a made in china d2s? Any relevant experiences here.

Edited 9 April, 201214 yr by oh_superb

I went in total through around 15-17 HID bulbs while experimenting on both cars, including 2Philips/1Osram/2GE. While Philips/Ge are of better mechanical quality, as long as you stick to 4300k-5000k colour temperature the replacements should be fine. Even if they had 5x shorter lifetime they still would be cheaper per hour. At 35W stock power levels there really is not much difference.

The only thing worth paying attention to is examining the bulbs for any flaws or discolouration of the glass, and cleaning them using paper towel dipped in pure alcohol isopropanol or ethanol, but that goes for any HID bulb.

Edited 10 April, 201214 yr by dieselV6

OK, thanks. I have more confidence now to buy some 4300k cheap bulbs - I have some isopropanol also.

You could even get lucky and the bulbs will last just as long as the expensive kind... :-)

:no: Well knock me down with a feather duster SWMBO has actually listened to me

Last time I was restrained in the front passenger seat I could not help but notice that the dipped beam seemed low compaired to my Octy , never realy noticed the first time after the HIDs where fitted.

So told her that I thought they where SWMBO said no they where OK as it had just passed the MOT with flying colours

Told her to go and get them checked on a beam setter, so she went to a stealer's in Bridgwater, and low and behold the beams where to low and yes the beam level was on zero, mech ask why they where not adjusted during the MOT SWMBO could not explain that one, so end result perfectaly set dipped and high beams

Bad result she will make me pay for being right

The important think is bowl

Old bowl

and new

According to hidplanet.com HID 100W doesnt make sens - it is not 3times more light, then 35W, just about 1,5x more light and few times more heat

Change bowl to new and insert 35W HID and will be ok.