Urban model and lack of ESP

[Karmann]

Thanks Man,

I have read your posts with interest and the additions you have made to your car. We look to buy a yeti as we are having our first child and wanted something that will take everything we throw at it. This will include travelling to and from Poland twice a year to see my wife's family. We go over during the winter too so will be buying snow shoes.

The urban is a great car and fantastically priced. We didn't neccesarily want a 4x4 as we don't need it but the ESP is maybe a worry now. Should it be a deciding factor as to whether we buy this or not?

[900000]

Thanks Man,

I have read your posts with interest and the additions you have made to your car. We look to buy a yeti as we are having our first child and wanted something that will take everything we throw at it. This will include travelling to and from Poland twice a year to see my wife's family. We go over during the winter too so will be buying snow shoes.

The urban is a great car and fantastically priced. We didn't neccesarily want a 4x4 as we don't need it but the ESP is maybe a worry now. Should it be a deciding factor as to whether we buy this or not?

Pleasure. We all here like to help.

Well as stated higher up in this thread it is something that will become compulsory soon in the EU. You will not get any cars in future with a five star NCAP rating without ESP. The Yeti has a five star rating though so it should be safe in an accident. But as Mercedes says more lives have been saved by ESP than by airbags since ESP stops the accident in the first place... So read in that what you may. The Urban is a lovely, lovely car, but it is also tall with a higher centre of gravity than an equivalent Golf. So at the limit it might want to topple over more readily than a Golf.

But many people on this forum have Yetis without ESP as it is not standard on all Yetis. Their cars feel as safe as anything still I'm sure. Millions of cars have been sold sans ESP in the decades up to now... So again read in that what you may.

So it is a personal decision alas. But good luck with the process.

[Totally Square]

...The Yeti has a five star rating though so it should be safe in an accident. ...

It seems only the Yeti with ESP has 5* NCAP. The Yeti without ESP wasn't tested. I don't know if the extra 3 points they awarded for ESP would have made a difference to the rating of a non-ESP car though...

NCAP say "[ESP] is expected to be standard equipment in the great majority of sales so qualifies for points in Euro NCAP's assessment." so shame on Skoda for excluding it from a special edition!

The NCAP test car also had side airbags (not fitted to all specs, but not sure about the Urban)

http://www.euroncap.com/results/skoda/yeti/368.aspx

[weyland]

Hi Karmann

I'm glad you've found my topic useful. I googled yeti urban ESP and this thread is one of the top results on Google. I've asked many dealers about this now, partly because these are so difficult to source and I was struggling to find one that had the engine and colour that I wanted. Many were confused about ESP, some told me I didn't need it. For us we have decided to leave the Urban for now due to the lack of ESP - the Urban DOES NOT HAVE THIS. As it is due to be a family car, as much as I like the Urban, safety is paramount. The one time you need it might be a life saver so we're going to pass and look and see what Yeti's are about later in the year.

This was highlighted on the last morning when I posted when a colleague came in to work and told me that he nearly spun his car on aroundabout because there was diesel on the road - he said the ESP saved the spin, correcting the car and preventing him from hitting others.

Edited 24 April, 2012 by weyland

[Karmann]

Thank Weyland,

I too asked the dealer again today and he said that ASR and ESP are basically the same thing so its fine?!!!! Anyway, I checked the 'build your own' section of the Skoda.co.uk website, and the safety features are clearly stated in the Urdan details that it does not have ESP.http://cc.skoda-auto.com/gbr/pages/step2.aspx

Its still is not a point that will entirely stop us buying one but is food for thought. Its a shame as the urban pictured above is Gorgeous, and after a test drive (albeit in a 6speed petrol), we have decided that a Yeti is the car for us. Maybe we too shall wait as we are ok for a car for the next year, and in the mean time look at the approved second hand market for an elegance.

Thanks again

[rog737]

I too asked the dealer again today and he said that ASR and ESP are basically the same thing so its fine?!!!!

It is frightening how little some salespeople know about the cars they are selling.

Regarding the ASR button, I have that and I have the 1.2TSi SE manual which doesn't have ESP.

[weyland]

No disrespect to those that have none ESP models incidentally - it's just good to be clear on these things as some dealers aren't exactly knowledgeable on such subject as highlighted in this thread

[Turbo Dezzel zz]

I have one car with esp and one without it makes no difference

[SandhurstJon]

Hi Guys

I collected my first Skoda on Wednesday, a Yeti Urban 2.0Tdi in Candy White, I have say it's an excellent little car. I was also under the impression that it had ESP, but after reading the bruchure again it only comes on the Greenline and Elegance. Don't rule it out, it drives and handles just brilliantly.

Here is a link to the new Yeti Brochure with the Urban in if it helps: http://www.skoda.co....ochure_yeti.pdf

Regarding the hard to get hold of fact, I just walked into my local dealer on Saturday and collected the car on Wednesday, should I also mention that I know the manager and also secured a £700 discount and free mats, probably not! 2 other local dealers said they could get an Urban from group stock in around 1 week, I'm in Surrey area if it helps anyone.

Love my Yeti already and off to get a re-map on Tuesday at AMD in Essex!

Let me know if you want any specific pictures etc.

Jon

[BossFox]

Love my Yeti already and off to get a re-map on Tuesday at AMD in Essex!

I'd be interested to see the before and after rolling road printouts, but I'm not sure if they do this.

Many tuners don't so you have no clear indication of how much better/smoother it is.

[SandhurstJon]

Hi Richard, yes they include a before and after print out and claim "The figures we gain are about 40bhp and about 45-50 lbft of torque", I'll let you know on Tuesday! Jon

[The Plumber]

Hi Richard, yes they include a before and after print out and claim "The figures we gain are about 40bhp and about 45-50 lbft of torque", I'll let you know on Tuesday! Jon

Should easily obtain those increases in values, as the 110 is effectively a de-tuned 140; both 110's and the 140 are part of the CFH engine family.

CFHA = 2.0TDI CR 110 250Nm torque (2wd)

CFHC = 2.0TDI CR 140 320Nm torque (4wd)

CFHF = 2.0TDI CR 110 280Nm torque (4wd)

Having previously owned 140 4x4, I can say for day to day driving theres little to choose between them.

TP

[rog737]

I have one car with esp and one without it makes no difference

Neither do airbags, side protection bars, seat-belts etc ..... until you need them.

ESP shouldn't be doing anything at all unless the car is getting out of shape, but that is the very time you need it.

I might not have it on my Yeti, but I am very much aware of the benefits.

On a related note, I do wonder about all the people learning to drive with all of these wonderful aids. It is getting easier and easier to push a car towards its limit without getting any real feedback - of course once you exceed that limit, physics takes over ESP or not!

Edited 28 April, 2012 by rog737

[oldstan]

Hi Guys

I was also under the impression that it had ESP, but after reading the bruchure again it only comes on the Greenline and Elegance. Don't rule it out, it drives and handles just brilliantly.

I just walked into my local dealer on Saturday and collected the car on Wednesday, should I also mention that I know the manager and also secured a £700 discount and free mats,

Jon

Re. the £700 off ....In all honesty I'm comparing that with the £2744 off an Elegance DSG diesel which DtD are currently offering. Or £2265 off a 1.8 TSE Petrol 4x4 Manual (There's £1988 off my own SE 1.2 DSG which costs £16,206) But maybe the Urban is in some way different when it comes to discounts? Having said that, DtD don't currently show the Urban in their listing.

Re. ESP....the DSG models have it as part of the spec. I'm very sure the Urban drives and handles just brilliantly - as it indeed it would - but, of course, the absence of ESP wouldn't affect the way it drives and handles until it became required under whatever circumstances caused it to be required. Whereupon the effect on it's handling should then, I would trust, become apparent. And to be honest I've never had occasion to cause it to function - but am pleased it's there..........but have had [33] other cars that haven't had it, as have we all. I imagine it will be standard quite soon on all new cars?

Edited 28 April, 2012 by oldstan

[lookingforit35]

I was invited to a Bentley driving day at an airfield near Swindon. It included 30mph manouvres comparing ESP equipped cars, and those with it switched off.

As a direct result I would never buy a car without this system fitted, nor would I be happy letting my wife and family on the road in a car without it. No syrprise then that my Yeti SE therefore came with it as an option I ordered.

To those that think it makes no difference and isnt worth the money i am sorry but you are sadly sadly deluded. The phrase "my car feels safe so I dont need it" is the most worrying thing.

[Norry]

To those that think it makes no difference and isnt worth the money i am sorry but you are sadly sadly deluded. The phrase "my car feels safe so I dont need it" is the most worrying thing.

I get the feeling though that if a driver is always saved by the ESP then they will not learn and sooner or later they will do something wrong that the ESP cannot save them from, so in the end there is no gain from the ESP. So it's not just the car that should feel safe - it's the driver that must be safe!

I learned to drive on cars built in the 1930s that had hardly any brakes, bald (but legal) tyres and terrible roadholding and that experience taught me a lot that I still use driving modern cars.

[lookingforit35]

I get the feeling though that if a driver is always saved by the ESP then they will not learn and sooner or later they will do something wrong that the ESP cannot save them from, so in the end there is no gain from the ESP. So it's not just the car that should feel safe - it's the driver that must be safe!

I learned to drive on cars built in the 1930s that had hardly any brakes, bald (but legal) tyres and terrible roadholding and that experience taught me a lot that I still use driving modern cars.

No, I've never been "saved" by ESP to the best of my knowledge. It's not like it is kicking in every time a car is driven and becomes relied upon to maintain normal progress. Similarly, an airbag isnt constantly relied upon by a driver to save them on every journey. But a sudden swerve even at just 30mph is when ESP's real value can be seen.

But you are correct in that nothing is safer than driving safely in the first place, using a lifetime of skill and experience. Trouble is you can never fully account for other road users or wayward pedestrians.

As has been said before, it's surprising how little is actually known about this valuable safety system.

[raysablade]

It is frightening how little some salespeople know about the cars they are selling.

I think you might be over charitable here.

The wife put down a holding deposit on a stock SE Plus having been told by the dealer that ESP an ABS were essentially the same thing.

When she'd had the chance to check and explained that she wanted to wait for a car with ESP they refused to refund her or move the deposit to another car.

She was happy to put it down to experience and go to another dealer, but it suggests to me that sales will always be higher on the dealers agenda than customer safety and that making safety features optional places more faith in the dealer's openess and honesty than exists in many places.

Its also why I can't help thinking that the use of £2500 worth of "extras" to lure customers towards a car that can't have ESP is a shockingly cynical move on Skoda UK's part. Then again the car might be exactly what Skoda dealers are asking for.

[The Plumber]

Its also why I can't help thinking that the use of £2500 worth of "extras" to lure customers towards a car that can't have ESP is a shockingly cynical move on Skoda UK's part. Then again the car might be exactly what Skoda dealers are asking for.

From my own observations and experience SUK have always put style and 'bling' as the main priority when choosing the specifications and options available on particular models here in the UK, with safety and ride comfort not even given a second thought.

Wonder if the person responsible for trim selection, had a misspent youth 'pimping' cars with 'boy racer' wheels and drain pipe exhausts

Interestingly the new Citygo does offer ESP on all but the base trim; maybe SUK had no option but have it as standard, as the car is built by VW, who have been fitting ESP as a matter of course for some time now.

TP

[ejstubbs]

Mercedes have claimed a while ago that more lives have been saved by ESP (by preventing accidents) than have been saved by airbags (that only react after the accident had already happened).

Probably true of the A-Class

Millions of cars have been sold sans ESP in the decades up to now...

^^^ This. Millions of people have driven billions of miles without ESP and the huge, overwhelming majority of them did not die horribly. My Yeti is the first ESP-equipped car I have ever owned. The way some people on this thread are going on, you'd think it was a miracle that I survived the previous 33 years behind the wheel.

I'm not an utter skeptic. I do think active driver aids can be very valuable. I had ABS on my first company car 22 years ago. When it was time for a new car I was baffled to find that the replacement model had airbags (at that time the hot new safety fad) but no ABS. The salesman didn't seem to understand my preference for avoiding accidents rather than just having a slightly better chance of surviving one.

I wouldn't rule a car out simply because it didn't have ESP. (It would severly restrict my choice of classic cars - if I could ever afford one!)

Edited 30 April, 2012 by ejstubbs

[900000]

I've just read the last how many posts........ I'm sitting here just shaking my head. Or more precisely: Can these people that say ESP is a waste of money and how they "have never felt it work" also feel the moment the automatic choke turns down to stop feeding the car fuel when it is cold? Do they also sense the moment the alternator kicks in and out or the ABS sensors checking wheel speed constantly? Erm no. You do not sense most all of the modern systems in a car. And no you certainly won't and should not sense when the ESP is working. That is the point. It saves you before you kill yourself in AN EMERGENCY. Everyone is the world's best driver for 99 days out of 100, until that one day when that dog/ball/child/tree/car/rock is somewhere it wasn't supposed to be. Just that once you might need ESP, winter tyres, ABS, airbags or whatever. So stating how your car drives and handles amazingly has naught to do with its safety systems.

As I stated before until recently most people got by without ESP in their cars for decades. It does not make a car, or a Yeti, useless without it. By no means. Just remember a Yeti without ESP has not been tested for NCAP and would under the current system get 1 or 2 stars at most without ESP. Read in that what you want. The five star safety rating is ONLY applicable to a Yeti with ESP.

Most people might in their lives only ever need the use of ESP once. Which is enough for me.

[g6zru]

Well spoken Johann.

Fred

[lookingforit35]

Millions of people have driven billions of miles without ESP and the huge, overwhelming majority of them did not die horribly.

Indeed. But how many of the many that died or were awfully injured would have suvived and/or avoided accidents with the assistance of ESP? That's the whole point of this particular safety aid - whilst it should never be required you'll be mightily glad of it in your hour of need.

[JCP]

On a new car today I cannot see why it isn't standard. Most of us have learned to drive and driven for varyingly long periods-40 years plus in my case-without ESP.

As radial tyres, disc brakes and latterly ABS have become normal so our expectations of vehicle performance have changed. I haven't experienced ABS| -other than deliberately. I don't know if ESP has played any part in my driving-it could have since it requires no input and need not give any sign of operation. Traction control I have seen in operation-as the dash light flashes.

My point is that if you have a choice it is a wise one to specify ESP, but it is not the be all and end all that some think.

If your driving has developed without it you will almost certainly be OK. I'd be more concerned at someone who has always had, and may have depended on ESP without knowing it, finding themselves beyond the limits of their car.

[BossFox]

Having thouroughly tested my ESP at Castle Combe on Saturday I can say it's very effective.

It's amazing what you can do with an ESP equipped Yeti and still stay in full control of the vehicle.

I agree with Johann above.

You may never use it, but if my wife has our son in the car (and herself) I would rather have as many safety aids as possible. It could be the 1 in 100 chance that something happens and it saves you. For me, that's worth a few £££ extra!