Now, I am expecting some contrary options on this, but I have to put it out there.

'upgrading' to large wheels and tyres, (i.e. opting for alloy wheels.) looks pretty, and the fact that larger ( and wider ) tyres can be fitted means better grip on a warm dry track and they save a few grams.

However they slow the car down ( check skoda's specs if you don't believe me ) reduce acceleration, offer considerably less grip in the wet, the snow ( thats why we suffer more nowadays with snow and is another reason our european counterparts suffer less in snow) and on mud/ gravel in fact on anything other than warm dry tarmac ( and how often do you struggle for grip on warm dry tarmac?)

Finally they also reduce ride quality and fuel economy ( increased rolling resistance )

Want an upgrade that will improve all weather grip + increased acceleration and speed + better ride quality

+ improved fuel economy + and mean cheaper tyres?

Fit standard sized wheels.

(assuming of course tyre compound, tread depth, pattern etc are the same)

Edited 25 April, 201214 yr by 1.4tsi

They don't save any weight either. Proper racing alloys would weigh less than steel rims but the ones on nearly all production cars are monstruously heavy castings. You get the benefit of a wide strong wheel at the cost of weight. You get the cosmetic effect of a racy wheel but to make them economically feasible the manufacturer has to cast them. Castings need far more material for the same strength and further economies can be made using cheaper heavier materials.

Alloys look nice though . . .

So you are saying the same size wheel with the same tyre on it will be worse if it is an alloy rather than a steel wheel with plastic hub cap? Or are you saying that because in general an alloy wheel is a different size to a steel wheel it is different?

That is correct, I am just focussing on the fact that larger and wider wheels and tyres are fitted. I've amended my original post to reflect this. The alloy metal is no issue. Cheers.

Aesthetics and vehicle weight has taken its toll.

Bigger brakes to stop heavy vehicles on autobahns have a lot to answer for.

Bigger brakes = bigger wheels for clearance - so a mildly hot car needs at least 16's these days

Larger dia wheels = lower profile tyres and alloy construction to try to reduce weight

Lower profile tyres = wider section and softer side wall to get compliance

All of which causes drag - less speed/worse fuel efficiency

No doubt the wider section improves mechanical grip but you loose fluidity in handling to some degree

As for safer steelies... Not really - its all in the tyres construction opposed to width. That said a car which screeches at 60mph tells you to slow down

So why am I picking up a set of 18x8 oz alloys tomorrow.... They are light a smidge over 8kg and anything smaller makes the car look strange.... Yep back to looks (and they have the same size tyres as I already have - so saves money)

As someone who suffered two cracked alloys on a BMW, resulting in two wrecked tyres (not cheap!), I can also say that they are not as durable as steel wheels (didn't take Sherlock to figure that one out though). There is also the costs of low profile tyres to fit these larger rims, and the ride quality of the car on everyday road surfaces.

I don't know if there is really that much of a safety issue. I can't say I've noticed more or less crashes in bad weather since bling wheels became the norm. I think a general drop in driving standards from cars that are mabe 'too safe' is more to blame.

I think your other points are fair and maybe rather than options for yet bigger wheels manufacturers should offer downgrades (eco wheels?). But then they probably already would if there was a demand for it.

'1.4tsi',

Thats one way to look at it.

But there is more.

ECO tyres & manufacturers trying to get Low Emmission figures.

Heavier cars may need wider and bigger tyres, but the EU need new Noise restrictions,

the big tyres are noisy so end up being made in a softer compound and wear out quick,

some even do not have good grip in the wet.

(see Jeremy Clarkson's Article in this months TG magazine this month, he moans about this.)

Old style cars with narrow tyres did well in the cold and wet.

They still do, but not with the wrong compound or tread for some conditions.

Rally snow/ice tyres are narrower, but then a different Silca compond, and wear rate is not important and they may be studded.

205/40/17 tyres can cost from £50 to £200,

track tyres, rain tyres, cold weather tyres, winter tyres, summer tyres, all weather tyres, all year round tyres.

So much choice.

You can not say that a £50 195/55/16 is a better tyre for traction, grip, wet conditions, winter than a 205/40/16 just because it is narrower.

The width in the numbers is the tyre, wall to wall and not the tread width anyway.

No sense or conclusion from my post,

just some things to consider.

Tyres do a job they are asked to do mostly,

just not on the rear of BMW.s in the cold,

and to0 much torque through a tyre can mean no traction with any tyres.

4wd does not always mean good tyre perfomance if being driven in an unsafe or inappropriate manner for the conditions.

There is no tyre that can suit every condition from -15 degrees celcius to +40 dgrees celcius ambient temp.

george

Edited 25 April, 201214 yr by sk4gw

Surely its all much of a muchness. I could buy lightwieght alloys, and select a tyre with a reduced width, and get most of those qualities, yet still acheive the asthetic properties of larger alloys.

Tyres also tend to come in a range of types. I know for instance, changing from a summer tyre, to an all weather tyre on a previous car gave me a lot better economy, reduced road noise, and better wet weather grip, at the expense of outright grip, with minimal cost difference.

I like Aspmans Eco wheels ideal ( I note the Skoda greenline Eco Octy thing is on 195's ) so it is kind of happening.

To sk4gw I would say that yes, I understand that 195 is better than a 205 in the wet all else being equal, and I accept that the number is the width but what do your tyres have between the walls other than tread?Are you anticipating a tyre than narrows at the tread point?

How many 17,18, or 19" tyres have at tread width of 195 or less?! ( or do I misunderstand? )

Also I accept that specialist tyres are always better but that is a given ( I use winter tyres in winter, but again the 195 will out perform the 205 as I understand it, even as winter tyres )

Edited 25 April, 201214 yr by 1.4tsi

Are we talking about the tyre width?

Because I can't see how the metal of the rim has any effect on the contact patch of the tyre, rubber compound and tread pattern. These are the things that matter.

My Fabia mkII Greenline II estate had 185/60R15 tyres on alloy wheels...

The alloy metal is no issue. Cheers.

Perhaps amend the title then?

I think you are mixing two different things - alloy wheels vs. tyre/wheel size.

I've got standard size alloys on my Octy and there's no difference between them and steel ones.

Perhaps amend the title then?

I could but I am also trying to catch the attention of those whom purchased their vehicle with ' standard alloys' rather than just those whom upgrade the wheels

I don't agree with this tobe honest, a wider tyre with a good amount of grip will be better on wet roads than a narrow tyre, I accept that on snow a narrow tyre cuts through easier.

If they were less safe than smaller tyres why would new cars come with larger tyres, my laguna which is only a 1.5 DCi so not a performance by any means has 205/60/R16's where as my old cars with higher bhp and performance only had 175 or 185's

Why is there two topics exactly the same?

I don't really mind about my alloys not being safe, they're the standard skoda ones at the moment.

The way I see it, if i'm going to die in a horrendous slide out accident, at least I looked irresistibly cool doing it xD

Edited 25 April, 201214 yr by Naybothemighty

I don't agree with this tobe honest, a wider tyre with a good amount of grip will be better on wet roads than a narrow tyre, I accept that on snow a narrow tyre cuts through easier.

If they were less safe than smaller tyres why would new cars come with larger tyres, my laguna which is only a 1.5 DCi so not a performance by any means has 205/60/R16's where as my old cars with higher bhp and performance only had 175 or 185's

Wrong?

check out a Audi R8 on wide alloys vs Octavia 1.4.

Why is there two topics exactly the same?

sorry my bad, posted here then couldn't find it under general car chat, forgetting i had put it here, sorry, can you amalgamate?

interestingly different views though

Are we talking about the tyre width?

Because I can't see how the metal of the rim has any effect on the contact patch of the tyre, rubber compound and tread pattern. These are the things that matter.

My Fabia mkII Greenline II estate had 185/60R15 tyres on alloy wheels...

Do you want a debate or an argument?

Its horses for course.

We all drive and we mostly drive different cars.

Means we all know what suits us i would imagine.

UK national maximum speed limit on single carraigeways is 60 mph in the wet or the dry.

Dual carraigeways/motorways are 70mph.

Show me a mildly hot or fast car thats tyres struggle to get around a wet roads corners at 65 mph.

If you want Economy then fit narrower tyres, pump the pressure up a little but stay safe.

Carry no extra weight in your car.

Never carry more than half a tank of fuel.

Remove your wipers when there is no rain & hypermile.

Dont sit up the jacksy of trucks, but sit back so the driver sees you in the mirrors and accept the tow you get in the Eddy.

Keep safe stopping distances for the tyres you have fitted.

Simples really.

george

Edited 25 April, 201214 yr by sk4gw

I was going to say the same as Slick123 - The main difference is width and diameter of the wheel, not what it's made of.

Get a car on narrow skinny 15's in the Snow and it will be far better then any 18x8 whether it's made of Alloy, Steel it doesn't matter....

17's give a better ride then 18's too, but then our roads are so poor anyway you may as well have the car at least looking nice haha.

Now, I am expecting some contrary options on this, but I have to put it out there.

No contrary opinion here. I've been considering taking my L&K from its (very nice) 17" alloys down to 16" next time the tyres need replaced, to improve the ride quality. The question I hadn't looked at yet is if there is any difference in the brakes between the L&K ad the other models that normally come with 16" rims. I suspect not, probably only the VRs has larger brakes but anyone out there know the answer?

Of course the other thought is to reduce unsprung weight by going for a shiny set of forged 17" wheels, any opinions on which is likely to have more effect on the ride - lower unsprung weight or thicker rubber and more air between me & the road?

Wrong.

check out a Audi R8 on wide alloys vs Octavia 1.4.

LMAO Not really a like for like comparison there!

I think a wider tyre on the same car will have no adverse effect in the wet at all.

But how will you ever get the bitches with standard wheels?