I fitted a 4,300K kit to my (projector) MKI Superb (dipped beam only) and the difference from the uprated Philips halogens was excuse the pun literally night and day.

Now with my MK2 Superb with factory fit Bi-xenon's (and additional halogen main beam units) the lights are amazing, the only way you could see the halogens come on was because of their colour temperature difference between them and the xenon's , once I fitted whiter Philips bulbs into the halogens you cannot make out where the xenon ends and the halogen starts.

as for distance, I have not measured it, but it is certainly over 150m.... by a long way.

The only downside to the bi-xenon's is when they reflect on the road signs (whilst on main beam) ... they are then too bright and dazzle you.

100% agree with you on that Martyn, the signage dazzle on main beam is not good! Personally I hate those orange street lights, really don't like the light they give out when it reflects off of wet roads. I find standard halogen lights very ineffective under those conditions. I fitted Osram Night Breakers to my Mk1 Octy vRS & found them to be an improvement. Then I bought my Mk1 Octy L&K with the factory fit Bi Zenons & was amazed at how much more I could see!

That prompted me to investigate a zenon conversion for the vRS, looked at another members conversion & how much light he got/dazzle he didn't, spoke to another friend who is an mot tester & bought the same kit from ebay for around £45. If you use a 33 watt kit at 4300 temp, it isn't dazzling or silly blue (went in a taxi recently in country lanes with silly blue lights fitted, I honestly didn't feel safe, as you could see barely anything of the road!) & for me the illumination of my replacement lights on wet/orange street light roads was outstanding! Never ever been flashed, as they can be levelled as per normal & aren't too bright or a stupid colour, no issues with mot's either!

One negative comment on the factory fit Zenons is that when they get old (10 years 147,000 miles) little bits break off of the interior of the light unit & jam the mechanism. The units are massively expensive so the only way round it is to remove the the light unit & shake out the errant plastic fragments, which is a right pain with headlamp washers in the way! So you end up with the option of either leaving them jammed & adjusting them to the right height or removing the self levelling bracket, adjusting them manually again & knowing that on the rare occaision that they do work correctly they won't settle at the wrong height!

In this instance, for me, a sensible after market kit wins!

There was lots of talk about the Mk2 Fabia having poor lights. I've had better but had a lot worse. You just get on with it. I'm not going out of my way to change them now and I'll wait until one goes then change both. Then I'll work out what's best

My first experience with xenons was on my previous car which had a bi-xenon setup - all my previous cars I'd run with uprated halogen bulbs (up to naughty 100W jobbies in the Fabia) which were mostly Philips and Osram +xx% premium bulbs.

When looking for my current car, I made sure it had bi-xenons specced - nuff said

Chris

i have 8k hids in my projectors headlights coz im a poser and think they look nice. they are white with a slight blue tint. I also have HIDs in my Projector fog lights.

Never once have i been flashed as they have been set up correctly. I have also gone through mots with them too. I find the Range rovers, new mercs and those chrysler wannabe gangster cars are the worse for blinding you.

Its all about the set up.. if they set wrong, they will blind on-comming traffic. dont matter if you have HIDs or bright halogens. Simples!

I fully understand uprated bulbs for the full beams but as you said its the range on dipped lights that is the problem not how bright they are. Xenons are very bright but the range is not justifiably better than the standard lights. The only way to increase the range is to alter the angle (dip) of the lights which is illegal hence why i found xenons pointless. Some may argue the range is better on xenons but it certainly isnt in my experience, you could have the brightest lights in the world but if they are constrained by MOT guidelines as to how high they can project then its overkill. They still look cool but thats not worth the extra cost IMO especially as they arent cheap.

Many will come on here now and argue otherwise or cry Troll and thats fine (apart from troll bit) but seeing as ive had xenons before i know first hand the differences between standard lights and xenons and they offered no advantage for me. Im actually quite anal when it comes to replacing wiper blades etc as i think its crucial to have good visibility when driving so if xenons were so much better i would be at the front of the queue to specify them but they just werent.

Not sure which car gave you a bad impression (I didn't find fords xenons much cop), but having driven the same model of vehicle with and without (xenons first) you soon notice how little range and cover halogens offer.

As others have said, I'll now spec them in future. There were some good pics on a civic of halogens v xenons v led.

Was a prius http://priuschat.com/news/the-2010-prius-standard-vs-led-headlights

Not sure which car gave you a bad impression (I didn't find fords xenons much cop), but having driven the same model of vehicle with and without (xenons first) you soon notice how little range and cover halogens offer.

As others have said, I'll now spec them in future. There were some good pics on a civic of halogens v xenons v led.

Had them in an audi and a shogun. Both offered no range increase on dipped lights just a brighter area directly in front of the car which i didnt need.

Had them in an audi and a shogun. Both offered no range increase on dipped lights just a brighter area directly in front of the car which i didnt need.

According to our "Human Factors" department (specialists in this sort of "what works best?" stuff), a "brighter patch" in your near field is the exact opposite of what you need for best range vision on unlit roads.

Had them in an audi and a shogun. Both offered no range increase on dipped lights just a brighter area directly in front of the car which i didnt need.

I would expect nothing less, the only way you are going to increase the range of the (correctly aligned) dipped beam is by adjusting them up... and thus you would then be dazzling oncoming traffic.

I would expect nothing less, the only way you are going to increase the range of the (correctly aligned) dipped beam is by adjusting them up... and thus you would then be dazzling oncoming traffic.

Thats my point. Xenons offered no range increase therefore whats the advantage? They are brighter than halgen lights but the only difference i noticed was that there was more definition to the edge of the beam of light compared to halgens but no range increase. All halogen lights i have ever had always had sufficient power to illuminate the ground at the extremity of their angle of projection. Xenons are limited to this same angle of projection so if i can see that far with the halogens why would i need to see the same area slightly better especially as its the ground beyond this range that i need to see when driving on unlit roads? Hence why we all need full beams and indeed why cars are fitted with them.

If my halogens didnt have the power to spread light to the extremity of their range then i could see the point of xenons but i have never had this issue on any car i have ever owned.

An important factor to mention, and one that hasn't been stated in black and white, is that HID/xenon headlights in the Octavia are, unquestionably, a huge improvement over the standard projector/halogen setup throughout the range of visibility.

Exactly, they are only better in the same range of visibility. Range is the problem though not lighting levels within the range.

Forget the brighter patch in your near vision that supposedly distracts from distance,

Mike

Are you seriously suggesting that a brightly lit object near you doesn't reduce your ability to see a dimly lit one further away?

Not for one minute. Supposedly was the wrong word to use. What I am saying is that even with a brighter patch in front of you, you will still have better distance vision with Octavia HIDs than halogens, purely because the halogens are so poor

Mike

Only better vision up to a set distance. The set distance is governed by VOSA. Its the blackness beyond this set distance that is what you need to see into hence why you use full beams. My point is i can see to the maximum set distance with my halogens and i dont need to see the same point of the road any better as i can see it well enough. This maximum set distance though is too close with xenons or halogens, it doesnt matter hence why i find xenons of no advantage. Your car headlights are at a set height and the angle of projection is determined by VOSA so the range is deliberately limited, xenons does not change this therefore the range cannot be increased. The standard halogens on my VRS are bright enough to illuminate to the limit of their permitted range so are perfectly adequate. If some people want to have the same range illuminated more brightly then thats up to them but its extra range that i prefer when driving and xenons simply do not offer this and i have experienced this first hand. Maybe you prefer them on lit city roads but where i live surrounded by nothing but unlit country roads xenons are worthless. Its full beams you need.

Not for one minute. Supposedly was the wrong word to use. What I am saying is that even with a brighter patch in front of you, you will still have better distance vision with Octavia HIDs than halogens, purely because the halogens are so poor

Mike

Ok, I know I'm just "some guy on the internet" to you as well, but I'm inclined to trust experimental research by Human Factors specialists over "some guy on the internet" saying the opposite to them.

I find the Range rovers, new mercs and those chrysler wannabe gangster cars are the worse for blinding you.

Exactly I hate those things.

An important factor to mention, and one that hasn't been stated in black and white, is that HID/xenon headlights in the Octavia are, unquestionably, a huge improvement over the standard projector/halogen setup throughout the range of visibility.

Forget the brighter patch in your near vision that supposedly distracts from distance, on the standard Octavia halogen setup you have neither near nor far visibility that is worth writing home about. The halogens are abdolutely atrocious.

I'd been running HIDs in my 54 plate for 3 years when I handed that car over to my wife and bought the other Octavia, which was again on halogens. I could not believe just how poor these lights were compared to the other car, and I wasted no time at all in buying an HID kit for this one as well.

Mike

Actually, with +30% bulbs in, the standard halogen projector set up is excellent IMHO.

Much better than the other cars I've access to.

Even with the boggo standard bulbs in it, they were pretty good.

Try something with H4 lights to compare.

Bluddy hell, another thread that has turned into a xenon haters paradise. It's ridiculous! How many more threads are gonna contain a legal debate? I forgot the original question!

Someone in a bit will post a thread on bad starting, and will be replied to with "i hate xenons, they blind me"

Edited 13 October, 201213 yr by Lofty79

Bluddy hell, another thread that has turned into a xenon haters paradise. It's ridiculous! How many more threads are gonna contain a legal debate? I forgot the original question!

Someone in a bit will post a thread on bad starting, and will be replied to with "i hate xenons, they blind me"

Hardly. No-one is forcing you to participate so dont bother if you have nothing relevant to add. Most discussions on this thread are on topic as its about "whiter" headlights which xenons are, so therefore discussiong xenons is "on topic". No need to get all up yourself because you dont agree with what other have posted.

The legality doesn't bother me that as such, it's the fact I've had so many bad (which are probably illegal anyway) installations dazzle me or sit behind me and distract me/give me a headache (usually on chav'd up decade old superminis, seem to have a lot less problems with OEM setups). I'm not directing this at anyone specifically, I can't say wherever anyone's particular xenon installation is within acceptable limits of dazzle or not.

Personally I don't jump in every single HID/xenon thread just to make a point of announcing how they annoy me, but when everyone does xenons properly, then everyone else will stop moaning. There is a reason there are so many "haters".

Edited 16 October, 201213 yr by ckyliu

I dont hate xenons i just dont rate them. They are brighter but didnt offer me any better range. I would have them if i had the choice but i would not pay for them and they are not cheap. I would imagine uprated bulbs would make more sense as i bet these dont cost much and the money saved from not speccing xenons could go towards something else or even just remain in your pocket. Personaly i wouldnt even bother with uprated bulbs as the situation has never arose that i couldnt use my car safely due to the standard fit headlights. No hate here just my opinion and experience of having had xenons in 2 cars previously.

If I'm honest while Xenons are one type, when I started this thread I was really thinking of the super blue/white coated halogen bulbs you can get which are eff all use in the fog and not exactly great in normal conditions.

A pointless change if ever there was one, to reduce light on the road, reduce your ability to see it and pay a bomb for the privilege of a shorter life bulb.

If I'm honest while Xenons are one type, when I started this thread I was really thinking of the super blue/white coated halogen bulbs you can get which are eff all use in the fog and not exactly great in normal conditions.

A pointless change if ever there was one, to reduce light on the road, reduce your ability to see it and pay a bomb for the privilege of a shorter life bulb.

Well, the last thing you need in fog or night-time snow is more lumens reflecting back in your face.

In daylight fog, use full beams, cos they won't bother you, and the other guy will see them from further off.

Going back to headlight colour, I found this on an HID website which shows colours of HID and the light intensity (lumins) of each.

As you can see 4,300 k gives the best output and is what most OEM HIDs are. It is simular with Halogens, no covering on a bulb will ever produce more light than a clear one.

However, in fog, or extremely poor viability, you actually want yellow light, as this cuts down the glare, this is what fog lights should be.

See. http://www.danielste...ight_color.html

and http://www.danielste.../fog_lamps.html

If you can remember, there was a time that in France, you had to run with Yellow tinted headlights.

If you can remember, there was a time that in France, you had to run with Yellow tinted headlights.

Yes, but that was so the Germans could spot you.

I say bring back selective yellow! Who's with me!? :think:

However, in fog, or extremely poor viability, you actually want yellow light, as this cuts down the glare, this is what fog lights should be...

If you can remember, there was a time that in France, you had to run with Yellow tinted headlights.

Take it you're the first supporter then?

EDIT: Note to self, remember difference between your and you're, idiot...

Edited 16 October, 201213 yr by ckyliu