My Octavia II estate understeers into right hand bends. Left hand bends seem fine, although I guess it is possible that it might be exhibiting slight oversteer. The fault is only slight but enough to make driving uncomfortable and is possibly the cause of an ache I seem to have developed in my shoulder (agh!). The dealer has checked the steering settings and can't find any problems but doesn't seem to be interested in looking at the suspension. Has anybody experienced a similar problem or have any suggestions as to the cause and remedy?

Are both tyres the same make?, are they both inflated the same?. How old are the shocks?

Go slower into right hand bends?

Thanks. Yes both tyres are the same with the same wear and correct pressure. I don't know about the shocks. Both seem to pass the simple test of pushing the wing down and not bouncing. The car has done about 36K so I am not expecting them to have worn significantly. One other observation I had made is that the wheelbase length is different on each side. The nearside is longer (which seems counter to what I would have expected). The dealer says this is normal and cars do not necessarily have the same on each side, but it seems odd to me. And ref Jonno, it is difficult to say but I would say that it is more significant at higher speeds, which would seem to suggest suspension to me.

Thanks Mike. Well the dealer has spent quite a bit of time checking the settings on the steering. Is it possible they just don't have the equipment, or skills even, to do it properly?

100% with mikeholroyd on the 4 wheel alignment. What the dealer knows about suspension and alignment issues could probably be summarized quite tersely.

Expect to pay £80 or so but for that your car will not only lose the problem but gain handling all round. Always the possibility of a more major issue but if there is one at least you will find out what it is.

He's pulling your leg when he says cars have different wheelbase measurements on either side. I do crash measurements on cars and have never seen one that is purposefully designed that way. To do the measurement, measure from the centre of each wheel and post both measurements on here.

If its miles out, the thrust angle will be out and the car will be unstable. It sounds like a poor crash repair to me. Does the wheel sit centrally in the arch?

Hmm. Well I did have a bump in it just after I got it in November 2010. (I slid on some ice into another car in a car park :-( ) The nearside is 150cm from mid wheel to centre door, the corresponding measurement is 147 on the offside. The rear measurement is 110 on both sides. So the overall wheelbase length is 257 or 260 depending which side you are at. The wheel appears Ok in the arch but obviously one is set back a bit further.

To measure the wheelbase you need to measure from the centre of the front wheel to the centre of the rear wheel. Its a two person job. Don't do measurements to body panels as these can be force fit to make the car look right. Can you do this and post back?.

That is one hell of a difference, and not likely to have happened during a car park slide. If you double check as per previous posters guidelines.

A to your original question, it's quite likely a 4 wheel alignment will effect an improvement, you could ask if they would check the wheelbase issue while they are at it.

It appears most dealers subcontract the alignment and reports on here is that subsequent rechecking shows that accurate had not been put on the job sheet.

That's interesting. Now I measure it as one piece it measures as 2588 on the offside and 2582 on the nearside. A bit more consistent I would have thought with the effect I am experiencing. Sorry for the misread but the point Metblackrat mentioned about the body panels must have made the difference. Also consistent with the bump I had when I hit something with the front nearside. So a 4 wheel alignment/wheelbase check is the thing to ask for. Does it have to be a specialist or can a dealer (different one I am thinking) do it?

He's pulling your leg when he says cars have different wheelbase measurements on either side. I do crash measurements on cars and have never seen one that is purposefully designed that way. To do the measurement, measure from the centre of each wheel and post both measurements on here.

If its miles out, the thrust angle will be out and the car will be unstable. It sounds like a poor crash repair to me. Does the wheel sit centrally in the arch?

I'd agree the dealer is wrong, but believe it or not a Renault 4 does have different wheelbase each side. I was amazed.

That's interesting. Now I measure it as one piece it measures as 2588 on the offside and 2582 on the nearside. A bit more consistent I would have thought with the effect I am experiencing. Sorry for the misread but the point Metblackrat mentioned about the body panels must have made the difference. Also consistent with the bump I had when I hit something with the front nearside. So a 4 wheel alignment/wheelbase check is the thing to ask for. Does it have to be a specialist or can a dealer (different one I am thinking) do it?

Take it to a specialist would be my advice.

Thanks for all your help and comments.

Was that because of 1960/70's French build quality?

Mike

You'd think so, but it was designed that way. Follow the link....

Did you get ur wheel alignment done and did it help? I have a similar issue with underwater on right hand corners or roundabouts.

Well I took it to Drury Lane as suggested above. They are clearly the right people to sort it out and they did some work on the geometry, which clearly hadn't been done correctly by the dealers. I am now confident it is now spot on. Unfortunately, we came abroad on holiday the same day so I really haven't had chance to give it a good work out. I will update in a couple of weeks, but I think it definitely pays to go to someone who has really good alignment equipment and Drury Lane have a Hunter DSP600 system which is supposed to be the best. Not all 4-wheel alignments seem to do what it says on the tin. There are some other possibilities other than the geometry (spring rate on suspension?) but I am not really qualified to make any suggestions..

True about not all operative being up to using the kit correctly. When mine was aligned, I could tell before I got to the main road the car had been transformed. My partner even commented on how nice it was, and I hadn't told her any work had been done.

I also found an uprated anti roll bar at the rear improved both handling and grip.

Well having given mine a good road test now - I just came back from a 1,000 round trip this week, the Drury Lane alignment definitely seems to have done the job. The jury had to be out for a few miles as the tyres need to settle down to the new geometry. There is the tiniest evidence of a residual understeer on left bends, but I have different tyres on the back, one Continental on the offside that has about 4mm tread and a almost new Michelin on the nearside. I am thinking that the - difference is enough to do that but I would be interested in other members' views. I am also interested in info on any resources for upgrading the rear anti roll bar as per nickguzzi's experience - ??

Well as I am on here, I may as well give you mine. I bought a Whiteline adjustable rear anti roll bar, cost about £160-£170. My man fitted it as g=he was doing several other jobs, including a cam belt, pump etc, a major service and the superpro anti lift consol bushes at the front. Oh and the 312mm brakes which entailed new hubs, dampers and calipers, so needed to be bled too. Labour and parts, except the brake kit was about £700.

You should not need to have the vehicle re aligned, as the connection to the suspension is through links with ball joints each end.

The job is easy to do, there is a how-to somewhere on the forum, perhaps someone else will remember where.

You can easily tell the difference, the rear of my combi is far more secure and precise. Gone is the wallow and lurch and a distinct feel of the back being an unwilling partner in the suspension system.

I have shelved plans for an engine tweek. I can just maintain road speed much more easily, corner speed is higher, so average point to point times are lower as I am not having to brake for every slight deviation. So much more pleasurable to drive and be a passenger in too. Multi win.

Thanks nickguzzi. I will definitely have a look at that.

I'd agree the dealer is wrong, but believe it or not a Renault 4 does have different wheelbase each side. I was amazed.

That has my mind boggled. Geometry 101 - 2D symmetry - or so I thought

I'd not be happy with different tyres on each side.Especially with different tread wear. Almost spun an old Mini with two brands of tyres on the rear.

An updated rear anti roll bar makes a huge difference. Easily the best handling mod I've done.

It is surprising that many so called experts I have spoken to don't seem to recognise the difference between different tyres. One guy at ATS told me that all tyres were manufactured to have the same grip. Er...excuse me....economy....rolling resistance....grip...aren't they all the same thing, and different tyres have different economy ratings, so they must have different grip. Surely?