no.

the biggest issue is the shape. the steep back end creates huge drag and a "vortex" behind the car (thats why it always gets muccky first)

the octy is much better' date=' hence why a octy is faster than a leon etc.

also in your case jason, your wheels add unsprung weight to the car.. thats why i got rid of the RSRs as the car is noticeably faster without... and im not a tart [/quote']

I've found my alloys aren't too heavy, not a great deal heavier than my steels with tyres. But also I've found the alloy used is pretty soft as a small rub recently took some serious flakes of metal off the rubbing strip. :thumbdwn: But heavy they're not, in comparison to some.

But I get your point - The dreaded hatchback "drag" at the back.

Tart?

Now if you had a towbar, you could pull an aerodynamic cowling, like a racing cyclist's helmet...

Fabia - egg box with wheels

My Mondeo TDCi did goto 150 mph with a tuning box on, probably only 145 with speedo correction, my Fabia wont do past 130, unless I have a serious piece of track, but it gets to that speed extremely quickly, I have seen 140 I think out of it on my private road going downhill (5%).

Jason, That is my cat on the allard's website.

Do you want me to see if Allard's will do a group buy on FMIC's.

I reckon the FMIC does not just keep temperatures down thustakes stress away from the engine but adds 10-15 BHP minimum.

Cheers

John

Fabia - egg box with wheels

My Mondeo TDCi did goto 150 mph with a tuning box on' date=' probably only 145 with speedo correction, my Fabia wont do past 130, unless I have a serious piece of track, but it gets to that speed extremely quickly, I have seen 140 I think out of it on my private road going downhill (5%).[/quote']

Not sure why it would add bhp as such, I can however imagine it keeping the temperatures lower which may feel faster, hard to say.

Either way if you drive it very hard then it sure will help, and with a remap it's probably worth it

Jason' date=' That is my cat on the allard's website.

Do you want me to see if Allard's will do a group buy on FMIC's.

[/quote']

Nah, no need for that. I was just curious. Nice to see how they do it.

If you view in a different way though, it may not increase BHP as such but it wont loose as much so in essence you will still see a large gain over standard

Definitely - that said I'll probably go for the TT Arch Liner vents thing instead, as it's a lot cheaper and it appears pretty effective for the investment

Well... got some more data.. standing start accelerating to 110 (courtesy of a toll booth on a well known midlands toll motorway)

ambiant was 15c

and in the space of 20 seconds, the temp had risen from 30c to over 80.. by which point the car would not accellerate, and was just smoking.

there was a definate loss of power as 80mph/4th gear came around.. and the car really struggled beyond that :(

after letting off to cruise, the temp took 40 seconds to drop back down to 30c

got a little test for you remapped guys to try... show you the effect of heatsoak:

(slip road onto a (private) motorway prob best for this).. the hotter the day the better

accellerate as hard as possible from as low a speed as possible.. try to get up to 80-90, the higher the better really... youll notice the car smoking more than normal and the accelleration going rubbish as inlet temps rise. when you have a good "feel" for what just happened, slow down to 70 and cruise for a few mins, to cool the IC down..

then put it in 5th and boot it.... see how much faster it pulls to 90

if that doesnt pursuade you that you need a fmic.. i dont know what will

Not sure why it would add bhp as such, I can however imagine it keeping the temperatures lower which may feel faster, hard to say.

Basic physics:

cooler air = higher density = greater pressure/compression = more BHP (depending on efficiency).

Benefits from FMIC:

Less load on the turbo because =

Requested pressure vill be reached faster =

Quicker spool up/less lag =

Possibility for raising requested boost pressure through remapping and still maintain same load on turbo =

Even more BHP and turbo holding boost pressure longer.

If the extra capacity is not used for raising the requested pressure to gain performance, the above factors will instead benefit the livability of the turbo, since ECU will back off the turbo when requested pressure is reached, and if the job is done faster the turbo will have to work less and in shorter intervals to produce requested boost.

However density/compression ratio vs. BHP is more relevant for petrols than diesels, so I doubt PD owners would se any significant increase in BHP unless requested pressure is raised. But you will get faster accelleration through faster spool up (max torque delivered @ lower RPM) and take better care of your turbo.

Turbo upgrades should not be done without an effecient intercooler.

As I said; all basic physics

very true. That said the green filter & PD160 intake should help generally. The turbo has the biggest impact and that pulls in the hot air I suppose, making it less efficient.

I am surprised it only has such a small intercooler, must have been cost related. That said if the side vents make a decent difference I'm quite surprised it doesnt come as standard really.

Going back to topic; are there any news on the Forge FMIC for Furby vRS?

I need one ASAP (like yesterday) and I'm not to keen on Allards FMIC. I don't like the routing of the pipes and from the (crappy) pictures it looks like the pipes are quite samll in diameter.

I hope the Forge FMIC will have 2.5" pipes all the way (back & forth), so pipes can be used even if turbo is upgraded.

I have checked the space and it should be ok with 2.5" if entry is in the right side (from driver seat) and exit is in the left side and then continuing back to the right again running just behind the lowest part of the radiator.

Basic physics:

cooler air = higher density = greater pressure/compression = more BHP (depending on efficiency).

I can agree with the cooler air = higher density bit. But if you cool a gas, it contracts, so the pressure reduces, assuming the volume stays the same (1896 cc in our case).

Higher density means there are more oxygen molecules per cylinderful of air, so if (and only if) there is unburnt fuel in the cylinders, the extra oxygen from the cooled air will allow it to be burnt.

Burning fuel = power.

Burning more fuel = more power.

Burning all the fuel = more power and low emissions.

Going back to topic; are there any news on the Forge FMIC for Furby vRS?

I need one ASAP (like yesterday) and I'm not to keen on Allards FMIC. I don't like the routing of the pipes and from the (crappy) pictures it looks like the pipes are quite samll in diameter.

I hope the Forge FMIC will have 2.5" pipes all the way (back & forth)' date=' so pipes can be used even if turbo is upgraded.

I have checked the space and it should be ok with 2.5" if entry is in the right side (from driver seat) and exit is in the left side and then continuing back to the right again running just behind the lowest part of the radiator.[/quote']

As mentioned earlier in this thread, development will be starting first or second week in june.. tho im not sure what the time to market will be. but i will keep everyone updated

very true. That said the green filter & PD160 intake should help generally. The turbo has the biggest impact and that pulls in the hot air I suppose' date=' making it less efficient.

I am surprised it only has such a small intercooler, must have been cost related. That said if the side vents make a decent difference I'm quite surprised it doesnt come as standard really.[/quote']

It is pretty much a cost thing, as its the same std smic that majority of other turboed VAG cars have, bar the golf pd150 that has a small fmic, and the Leon R/S3 that has twin smics.

its also worth bearing in mind that a standard car will very very rarely exceed the threshold of the standard intercooler, so why would vag spend more money on something thats fine on a standard car?

I can agree with the cooler air = higher density bit. But if you cool a gas' date=' it contracts, so the pressure reduces, assuming the volume stays the same (1896 cc in our case).

Higher density means there are more oxygen molecules per cylinderful of air, so if (and only if) there is unburnt fuel in the cylinders, the extra oxygen from the cooled air will allow it to be burnt.

Burning fuel = power.

Burning more fuel = more power.

Burning all the fuel = more power and low emissions.[/quote']

I should have been less confusing of course. When I wrote "greater pressure/combustion" I ment in the combustion chamber when the compressed air ignites, not the pressure of the airflow. This way you have more power per stroke even if amount of fuel stays the same (the molecules are so tightly packed they create a chain reaction when heated during ignition). NOS works similar to this.

The pressure of the airflow itself is fixed by the ECU, so it won't be higher just more compressed.

Now the MAP is working together with the MAF and they both report to the ECU, so when compression is higher in the intake naturally more air will be sucked in before requested pressure is reached, hence the MAF will report greater air volume and the ECU will raise the amount of fuel injected.

The requested pressure is calculated by the ECU based on requested torque so if power per stroke is greater, then requested torque will be reached faster and intervals of high requests for pressure will be shorter, hence less load and stress on the turbo.

That's just a simplified explaination. The ECU actually has a lot more variables to control, some of which I don't know myself........gotta.....rest.....now....brain.....overloading

As mentioned earlier in this thread, development will be starting first or second week in june.. tho im not sure what the time to market will be. but i will keep everyone updated

Sorry I missed that

I'm surprised about the Allard comment. The pipes that go to the standard side intercooler are pretty small, and I'd say the Allard pipework is much bigger, and I reckon Forge will be unlikely to use anything even bigger than that.

I don't know about the routing issue but they've been doing FMICs and other stuff to TDIs for a few years now, so wouldn't question their expertise until a good comparision (come on Forge ) is available

I'm surprised about the Allard comment. The pipes that go to the standard side intercooler are pretty small' date=' and I'd say the Allard pipework is much bigger, and I reckon Forge will be unlikely to use anything even bigger than that.

I don't know about the routing issue but they've been doing FMICs and other stuff to TDIs for a few years now, so wouldn't question their expertise until a good comparision (come on Forge ) is available[/quote']

Given Allards experience with intercoolers and looking at BryanDs post on intake temperatures i reckon their version will be as good as any for the vRS.

For me its just the routing of the IC outlet pipe and the hassle of sorting out the air intake that is putting me off.

I prefer a more stock look.

Colin - do you think Forge could do a black painted FMIC option?

Given Allards experience with intercoolers and looking at BryanDs post on intake temperatures i reckon their version will be as good as any for the vRS.

For me its just the routing of the IC outlet pipe and the hassle of sorting out the air intake that is putting me off.

I prefer a more stock look.

Colin - do you think Forge could do a black painted FMIC option?

I dunno.. ill ask them. not sure what effect it would have on the cooling properties.. i presume it would have a negative effect tho :(

I dunno.. ill ask them. not sure what effect it would have on the cooling properties.. i presume it would have a negative effect tho :(

cheers colin,

Have heard of others on SCnet and i think on Briskoda who have had them painted black/powder coated?

Not sure of any negative effects, but for me it would be cosmetic - but if there really are negative effects i wouldn't bother obviously.

cheers colin' date='

Have heard of others on SCnet and i think on Briskoda who have had them painted black/powder coated?

Not sure of any negative effects, but for me it would be cosmetic - but if there really are negative effects i wouldn't bother obviously.[/quote']

Ive also read that... and i know the theory is true.

but i suppose its down to the thermal conductivity of the powder coating, which surely cant be as high as metal?? :confused:

Oh, how I would love a new FMIC and clutch, just think of the horses and their pulling power.

I'm surprised about the Allard comment. The pipes that go to the standard side intercooler are pretty small' date=' and I'd say the Allard pipework is much bigger, and I reckon Forge will be unlikely to use anything even bigger than that.

I don't know about the routing issue but they've been doing FMICs and other stuff to TDIs for a few years now, so wouldn't question their expertise until a good comparision (come on Forge ) is available[/quote']

Well I did say "crappy pictures". I mean you can't use those pictures for anything. The resolution is so bad any attempt to zoom just gives you a big blur. I might be more optimistic about their product if they could present it in a proper way.

Anyhow, anything smaller than 2.5" pipes is not a serious installation. Just go to Forge and see. They use from 2.5" and up. But I can't tell the exact size on the Allard FMIC.

I know Allard has been in the oil business for a long time, but still from what I can tell it looks like the exit on the FMIC has to go through the air intake duct in the front section. Sorry, but that's just plain ridiculous since there's plenty of space for piping just behind the lower back side of the radiator. No way in h*** I would re-route my air intake to give room for a big fat pipe, when there's no need to (and yes I have seen pictures from the installation I'm referring to on the cupra forum. It works and looks nice too).

I think I will wait and see what Forge is up to

the front mounted intercooler wont give more power alone. it will sustain power in a chipped car for longer and with less probable damage to turbo. a car fitted with a front mounted intercooler would have to have their chip tweeked to gain the full benefit. as far as i know the ecu is not addaptive so wouldn't provide more fuel without being told. when i had my fmic fitted to my pug 206 i initally lost power. Tom.