Personally I think the haldex system sucks unless you go to the alps or farming. It's as smooth as falling down steps on crutches at transferring power front to back.

Driven all sorts of stuff in the past and the haldex experience to me is pants.

As for faster round twisties - rubbish - understeery rubbish. Full time 4x4 with rear bias and a practiced pilot - yes - but not on any haldex vw kit. Tyres and diffs make the difference

Leave 4x4 in the eighties for me when traction in fed was rubbish

"Alps or farming". ?? What use would it be for farming? Strange thing to say. JMO

george

Jock, I'm just making general statements, I can't even work out from some of these posts which car they are talking about, let alone which engine.

Marcevo1, what generation Haldex vehicles have you driven?

Personally I think the haldex system sucks unless you go to the alps or farming. It's as smooth as falling down steps on crutches at transferring power front to back.

Driven all sorts of stuff in the past and the haldex experience to me is pants.

As for faster round twisties - rubbish - understeery rubbish. Full time 4x4 with rear bias and a practiced pilot - yes - but not on any haldex vw kit. Tyres and diffs make the difference

Leave 4x4 in the eighties for me when traction in fed was rubbish

Interesting. The generation two haldex cars possibly - but not nearly as bad as you make out - the gen four haldex cars offer an ultra

smooth shift of torque as it's pre emptive. Understeery? Again, I wonder if you've driven a sorted gen 4 car?

Personally I think the haldex system sucks unless you go to the alps or farming. It's as smooth as falling down steps on crutches at transferring power front to back.

Driven all sorts of stuff in the past and the haldex experience to me is pants.

As for faster round twisties - rubbish - understeery rubbish. Full time 4x4 with rear bias and a practiced pilot - yes - but not on any haldex vw kit. Tyres and diffs make the difference

Leave 4x4 in the eighties for me when traction in fed was rubbish

The transfer of power in my "X" reg S3 was so smooth you couldnt feel it happening. All you noticed was no wheel spin you never felt it shuffling power. Same in current generation A3 with my mate has. In fact i havent been in a haldex car yet where i could feel the power transfer front to rear.

Agree with your comments about the twisties though as the speed you can hold in a corner has nothing to do with 4wd, its purely suspension geometry and tyres. Accelerating out of the corners is a different story though 4wd beats fwd with fancy limited slip diff every time plus it has the benefit of more usability come winter time. The haldex system doesnt suffer much drive train losses either = win, win,win. Cant see a downside to having it.

Also fwd cars with locking diffs torque steer like a bitch, not nice, and yet will still understeer on the limit.

Driven the early gen and the most recent. Yes more more modern is better but still rubbish IMO

Great for farmers wives and the odd ski trip with the right tyres

Regarding torque steer with trick diffs - depends which type - plated is for competition only IMO but atb type are great with very little pull.

4x4 was made great by 80's rallying.... It's 2012 and we have moved on - turbo lag has all but gone, steering is way more controlled, rear steer geometry, electronics and tyres - 4x4 is surplus to requirement (have you even driven a Quattro sport - I have it was bloody awful)

I imagine haldex adds 150kg? I'd love to be able to loose that weight from a road car....

All best road cars are rwd above 300bhp and can cope with 500bhp - just look at how many lambos are being converted at great cost to rwd in the states!

Most road cars fwd with less than 300bhp providing its designed properly copes more than adiquately.

Before anyone says you haven't tried enough 4x4's here's a few ive had/driven for a reasonable length in the past:

Subaru legacy turbo

Lancia delta evo1

Mitsubishi evo 5

964 c4

Quattro sport swb (dialynx)

S3 mk2

Golf r32

Alfa 159 q4

Out of all of them the only ones I actually liked as a road car was the Lancia and Subaru - the rest felt strange / unrewarding - the c4 was ok but I had a c2 at the time and was way better feel and just as much traction.

No idea what road you drive that you think that a rear wheel driver could be best, not the same roads as me tho.

http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/learn-share/care-guide/cold-weather-tips

http://www.briskoda....-back-in-3-days

http://www.briskoda....winter-tyres-on

george

Not th Alps & not on a run to the shops or church from the Farm

On this Day the vRS was much superior than the cr4p Evogue.

I can't understand you liking the legacy best out of that list. How can you like 300+hp rwd cars and a legacy for the same reasons?

Personally I find fwd lacking too often. On a wet road you can't even do a hill-start without traction control. Gravel, forget it. FWD is way better on grass, snow, mud and other slippery surfaces than rwd though. Rwd cars get stuck on a damp lawn.

Personally I think the haldex system sucks unless you go to the alps or farming. It's as smooth as falling down steps on crutches at transferring power front to back.

Driven all sorts of stuff in the past and the haldex experience to me is pants.

As for faster round twisties - rubbish - understeery rubbish. Full time 4x4 with rear bias and a practiced pilot - yes - but not on any haldex vw kit. Tyres and diffs make the difference

Leave 4x4 in the eighties for me when traction in fed was rubbish

Have to disagree but agree its personal taste. Ive owned an Impreza STi & a Mk 1 Octy 4x4 with 356 bhp. The Octy was definately a better car, smooth power delivery, the haldex was fine & never let me down & I found it very very smooth. The Subaru was loud, cant think of much else I really liked, I found the transmission agricultural, power delivery all or nothing & a pants powerband, grip was great then suddenly it all let go which was a couple of times somewhat brown trousers. I think I disliked it the most because of its appetite for parts & at Subarus prices

The Scout we now have ( with Haldex) remapped to a wopping 165 bhp I can chuck anywhere & it just hangs on. Would agree on your other post saying RWD for a smile factor, my Nissan is 500 bhp & a hoot to drive but Im convinced on a European rally the Octy with 350 would overall be quicker, perhaps I felt more confident with it.

I still feel for the average driver & many who consider themselves to be good & fantastically fast ( but arent) 4Wd is still better

Edited 26 September, 201213 yr by Stuart_J

Driven the early gen and the most recent. Yes more more modern is better but still rubbish IMO

Great for farmers wives and the odd ski trip with the right tyres

Regarding torque steer with trick diffs - depends which type - plated is for competition only IMO but atb type are great with very little pull.

4x4 was made great by 80's rallying.... It's 2012 and we have moved on - turbo lag has all but gone, steering is way more controlled, rear steer geometry, electronics and tyres - 4x4 is surplus to requirement (have you even driven a Quattro sport - I have it was bloody awful)

I imagine haldex adds 150kg? I'd love to be able to loose that weight from a road car....

All best road cars are rwd above 300bhp and can cope with 500bhp - just look at how many lambos are being converted at great cost to rwd in the states!

Most road cars fwd with less than 300bhp providing its designed properly copes more than adiquately.

Before anyone says you haven't tried enough 4x4's here's a few ive had/driven for a reasonable length in the past:

Subaru legacy turbo

Lancia delta evo1

Mitsubishi evo 5

964 c4

Quattro sport swb (dialynx)

S3 mk2

Golf r32

Alfa 159 q4

Out of all of them the only ones I actually liked as a road car was the Lancia and Subaru - the rest felt strange / unrewarding - the c4 was ok but I had a c2 at the time and was way better feel and just as much traction.

Im not really concerned with on road heroics and street racing. In every day poor weather conditions haldex 4wd is miles better than FWD. RWD is fine also but its not like i exploited it on every journey. In fact it never offered an advantage in daily driving even when pressing on. I would never drive that close to the limit on a greasy public road where the slight tactile differences between RWD and FWD became apharent.

In Aberdeen the roads are wet more than they are dry. Haldex 4wd is a total advantage. I think you purely basing your opinions on driving characteristics at the performance limit which i dont think most people set as a high priority when selcting a daily drive car.

Ovioulsy RWD is more fun the FWD and 4WD but only on a track. Dont think id be changing a lambo to RWD in this Country, 500-600 bhp through 2 wheels yikes. Funnily enough i just saw an old top gear yesterday and the new jag XKR got hosed by the GTR on the wet track no point having 500bhp if you cant use it.

Not sure why you think haldex is crap other than if you were comparing what makes an exciting track car. Dont think that is what is being discussed here though.

Edited 26 September, 201213 yr by Jockdooshbag

No idea what road you drive that you think that a rear wheel driver could be best, not the same roads as me tho.

http://www.michelin....ld-weather-tips

http://www.briskoda....-back-in-3-days

http://www.briskoda....winter-tyres-on

george

Not th Alps & not on a run to the shops or church from the Farm

On this Day the vRS was much superior than the cr4p Evogue.

Awsome scenery even in the fog, reminds me of N Wales. I wouldnt consider RWD in the UK, most roads in the UK they are greasy in the dry in summer never mind before the winter ice and weather starts up, in North Amrerican or many europen road which are very smooth and compared to the uk and dont have the ice and pothols that we do here. Haven't BMW started producing 4WD for European market now?

Wonder if this guy had converted his Lambo to RWD??

He he - got a lot of people thinking on this one

Yes I agree haldex or any 4x4 where straight line traction is needed from a standstill - yes it's good for a normal car in normal driving in really bad condition - still very much tyre dependant though.

My dislike is from a fun car / dependible handling point of view - ie not everyday safety.

Horses for courses.

I ran an alfa gta before the vrs - winter tyres, trick diff and proved unstoppable in the snow - better than the q4 actually as it was much lighter too.

Some of those roads look ideal for rwd! Mk2 escort would be just the ticket if I could afford one... Alfa 75 twin spark with LSD and skinny tyres is my steed for fun these days. Every drive an mini adventure.... Ive learnt that you don't have to spend a fortune to have fun (old Skoda rwd was on the cards but couldnt find one at the time)

Awsome scenery even in the fog, reminds me of N Wales. I wouldnt consider RWD in the UK, most roads in the UK they are greasy in the dry in summer never mind before the winter ice and weather starts up, in North Amrerican or many europen road which are very smooth and compared to the uk and dont have the ice and pothols that we do here. Haven't BMW started producing 4WD for European market now?

Wonder if this guy had converted his Lambo to RWD??

Fantastic clip - what a donkey!