DSG questions

[theandywaite]

I have had my SEAT Bocanegra for a few months now. I know it's not a Fabia, but obviously they are very similar and I think what I'm about to ask applies to both cars... and I've not found a SEAT forum yet that's anywhere near as good as Briskoda so... I hope this doesn't upset anyone

I have a couple of DSG questions I was hoping someone can answer...

• Sometimes when I start the car, the trip computer display says "D ---> P". What does it mean?
  
• As I understand it, it's best to put the DSG box into N when sitting at traffic lights. Is it bad to move from D into N as you approach the lights (i.e. when rolling to a standstill but not yet fully stopped)?
  
• When in slow moving traffic and using manual, changing between first and second and vice versa is often jerky. I understand that's normal? When in auto mode, however, it's very smooth and imperceptible. I also noticed that, when setting off in auto mode, the display says D2 virtually immediately - yet at the same speed in manual mode, the box refuses to change up. What is the auto box doing when in auto mode to stop the jerkiness?
  

Thanks,

Andrew

[sharkrider]

1) never seen that message in my car , cant comment (fabia II vRS 39k )

2)I am a driving instructor, and the way I teach is the way I treat the box... if its a long wait, I put the handbrake on and put it in neutral..... (I would suggest NEVER do this before stopping!) if its a short wait , if the brake is fully depressed (i.e not 'slight ' pressure) then the clutch is disengaged, so you wont harm it, so dont bother with neutral. (i.e temp traffic lights, long stream of traffic comming, handbrake , neutral, local lights you know will change soon, no handbrake, drive, brake on)

3)its jerky in manual because the changes are "real tim" as you ask for them, in auto its "pre-engaging" the next gear so its seemless.... the jerkyness in manual is normal... it will pre-engage eben in manual when it KNOWS whats gonna happen, i.e full throttle , full acceleration, and you change up with the paddles at 6k... thats seemless right?!, but it cannot tell what you are going to do, under uncertain circumstances, so the next gear , may NOT be pre-engaged, hence the jer k

Hope this helps!

Shark.

[sharkrider]

*time

[sharkrider]

*even (wish I could "edit" :( 0

[Big Gray]

• Sometimes when I start the car, the trip computer display says "D ---> P". What does it mean?
  

I get this every now and again on mine if I try starting it D, not park or neutral. Or if i'm too quick putting it in D after starting the engine.

Gray

[theandywaite]

I get this every now and again on mine if I try starting it D, not park or neutral. Or if i'm too quick putting it in D after starting the engine.

Gray

Interesting... I suppose the point is though - why tell the driver? What use is that information?

1) never seen that message in my car , cant comment (fabia II vRS 39k )

2)I am a driving instructor, and the way I teach is the way I treat the box... if its a long wait, I put the handbrake on and put it in neutral..... (I would suggest NEVER do this before stopping!) if its a short wait , if the brake is fully depressed (i.e not 'slight ' pressure) then the clutch is disengaged, so you wont harm it, so dont bother with neutral. (i.e temp traffic lights, long stream of traffic comming, handbrake , neutral, local lights you know will change soon, no handbrake, drive, brake on)

3)its jerky in manual because the changes are "real tim" as you ask for them, in auto its "pre-engaging" the next gear so its seemless.... the jerkyness in manual is normal... it will pre-engage eben in manual when it KNOWS whats gonna happen, i.e full throttle , full acceleration, and you change up with the paddles at 6k... thats seemless right?!, but it cannot tell what you are going to do, under uncertain circumstances, so the next gear , may NOT be pre-engaged, hence the jer k

Hope this helps!

Shark.

Interesting - thanks for that. What is your basis for saying don't put it into N while rolling? Is it because it's a bad thing to do technically for the auto box - or because it's bad as a driver (I know technically you're not supposed to coast)?

[kopo]

Interesting... I suppose the point is though - why tell the driver? What use is that information?

Danger, burn more fuel.

Interesting - thanks for that. What is your basis for saying don't put it into N while rolling? Is it because it's a bad thing to do technically for the auto box - or because it's bad as a driver (I know technically you're not supposed to coast)?

[kopo]

Interesting... I suppose the point is though - why tell the driver? What use is that information?

Interesting - thanks for that. What is your basis for saying don't put it into N while rolling? Is it because it's a bad thing to do technically for the auto box - or because it's bad as a driver (I know technically you're not supposed to coast)?

Danger, burn more fuel.

[e1.]

naxtek:

- You can't start the engine in D or R. This is a normal safety feature in every automatic transmission.

- You can use the N, but it's not the best for your fuel consumption and because you don't use the engines brake power, it also means more abrasion for your brake pads. When you slowing on D, the fuel injection not working, your actual consumption is zero. You can check it on board computer.

[theandywaite]

naxtek:

- You can't start the engine in D or R. This is a normal safety feature in every automatic transmission.

- You can use the N, but it's not the best for your fuel consumption and because you don't use the engines brake power, it also means more abrasion for your brake pads. When you slowing on D, the fuel injection not working, your actual consumption is zero. You can check it on board computer.

Thanks everyone for your input.

I think the D--->P thing is if you shift into D too quickly after starting the car.

I think I should explain myself a bit better about putting it into neutral while rolling. I do understand that coasting is usually bad for fuel economy and that it's best to be in-gear when slowing. I wouldn't put the box into N when moving at any considerable speed. When it's quiet at night and I can see a red light up ahead, I will let off the accelerator and coast (in D) up to the lights (the idea is that hopefully they'll go green and I won't have to fully stop). When I do have to stop though... I will end up slowing almost to a stop with the car in D. The box changes down to first/second gear by itself. It then tries to keep the car from stalling by making it roll along very slowly. In a manual car at this point, I'd dip the clutch to avoid the engine stalling and use gentle braking to bring me to a complete stop at the lights. If you use gentle braking at this point with the DSG though, the gearbox seems to think you want to creep forward on the brakes, and so stopping the car feels odd as the car fights you to go forward. To combat this, you either need to slam the brakes on hard (so the DSG gets the idea properly you want to stop) which isn't great, or the alternative is to put the box into N. Putting the box is into N is fine by me - but I just wanted to make sure doing so at 5 mph doesn't cause the car/box any damage. Does that make more sense?

[philhoward]

I think the almost immediate move to D2 is the mapping; my Scirocco (1.4 TSI DSG) would only go down to D1 if I was stationary and when taking off from a standstill go into D2 almost immediately. The mapping on my vRS seems a lot more practical - it will go down to D1 when crawling and actually use it as a proper gear when taking off. I believe the mapping changed at some point in production (early 2012?).

Manual changes (in both cars) tend to happen when the gearbox wants to do them, rather than exactly when you request them. Not sure if its my perception, but the harder the throttle is pressed, the quicker it changes, hence if on a very light throttle, it seems to take forever, yet when accelerating medium/hard, it changes much quicker IMHO.

[Lewisb1989]

I think I should explain myself a bit better about putting it into neutral while rolling. I do understand that coasting is usually bad for fuel economy and that it's best to be in-gear when slowing. I wouldn't put the box into N when moving at any considerable speed. When it's quiet at night and I can see a red light up ahead, I will let off the accelerator and coast (in D) up to the lights (the idea is that hopefully they'll go green and I won't have to fully stop). When I do have to stop though... I will end up slowing almost to a stop with the car in D. The box changes down to first/second gear by itself. It then tries to keep the car from stalling by making it roll along very slowly. In a manual car at this point, I'd dip the clutch to avoid the engine stalling and use gentle braking to bring me to a complete stop at the lights. If you use gentle braking at this point with the DSG though, the gearbox seems to think you want to creep forward on the brakes, and so stopping the car feels odd as the car fights you to go forward. To combat this, you either need to slam the brakes on hard (so the DSG gets the idea properly you want to stop) which isn't great, or the alternative is to put the box into N. Putting the box is into N is fine by me - but I just wanted to make sure doing so at 5 mph doesn't cause the car/box any damage. Does that make more sense?

I know exactly where you are coming from with this one. When coming to a complete stop I would lift the brake a split second before you come to a halt which makes it perfectly smooth. Then bank on the brakes if needed once the car has stopped. Perfectly smooth stop every time. Whereas with the DSG it is difficult/impossible to get a perfectly smooth stop without knocking into N otherwise the car thinks you want to go again.

Can anyone shed any light on it?

[Ootohere]

I would be checking to see if the vehicle needed a ECU update if thats how it behaves.

That would be a scary way of driving IMO.

Cold weather coming and i would be wanting the engine braking coming down the gears and not neutral & brakes on while still moving at slippy junctions etc.

Never felt anything like as being described while driving & using a DSG.

(in a diesel or petrol, 6 or 7 speed)

I would never crawl along in 1st in manual with a Twin Charger & 7 speed box,

when it crawls along happily in 2nd or going up to 3rd even at tick over or just above, and smoothly when in 'D', especially if the engine is cold..

george

[Phil-E]

While the car is moving and in gear the clutch (one of them) will be engaged. Even when braking it will still keep the clutch engaged to get engine braking and aid economy. There must be a threshold of speed where it will then disengage the clutch but until this speed is reached the clucth will remain engaged and obiviously the engine still turning so it will feel like it is fighting it slightly just like a conventional auto box.

Phil

[Panther_uk]

I have no problems with smooth braking in mine :think:

[theandywaite]

I know exactly where you are coming from with this one. When coming to a complete stop I would lift the brake a split second before you come to a halt which makes it perfectly smooth. Then bank on the brakes if needed once the car has stopped. Perfectly smooth stop every time. Whereas with the DSG it is difficult/impossible to get a perfectly smooth stop without knocking into N otherwise the car thinks you want to go again.

Can anyone shed any light on it?

That sounds like exactly what I'm on about. I really don't think there's anything wrong with the car - you'd want it to try and move forward when lightly on the brakes so you can do hill starts, for example. Except in this case I don't want to do a hill start, I want to stop gently and smoothly.

I think it depends how you drive - if you always slow down "normally" at junctions you won't notice. I don't usually. It's only when slowing very gently that I have an issue.

Anyway is knocking it into N while moving a few MPH a problem or not? :p

[newbie69]

As someone else wrote before, I don't have a problem coming to a smooth stop either. It's true that If you're not paying much attention to how you are going to stop, you may miss it more often than you would with a manual but it's not impossible to do, uphills don't help of course. That being said, I don't see the need to drop it in "N" although it probably won't cause any harm at such slow speeds and revs.

[XK140]

Thanks everyone for your input.

I think the D--->P thing is if you shift into D too quickly after starting the car.

I think I should explain myself a bit better about putting it into neutral while rolling. I do understand that coasting is usually bad for fuel economy and that it's best to be in-gear when slowing. I wouldn't put the box into N when moving at any considerable speed. When it's quiet at night and I can see a red light up ahead, I will let off the accelerator and coast (in D) up to the lights (the idea is that hopefully they'll go green and I won't have to fully stop). When I do have to stop though... I will end up slowing almost to a stop with the car in D. The box changes down to first/second gear by itself. It then tries to keep the car from stalling by making it roll along very slowly. In a manual car at this point, I'd dip the clutch to avoid the engine stalling and use gentle braking to bring me to a complete stop at the lights. If you use gentle braking at this point with the DSG though, the gearbox seems to think you want to creep forward on the brakes, and so stopping the car feels odd as the car fights you to go forward. To combat this, you either need to slam the brakes on hard (so the DSG gets the idea properly you want to stop) which isn't great, or the alternative is to put the box into N. Putting the box is into N is fine by me - but I just wanted to make sure doing so at 5 mph doesn't cause the car/box any damage. Does that make more sense?

Just to answer your question in your last sentence...why should it do any harm?... to ease a manual box into neutral just before coming to a halt doesn't...to do the same with a torque converter auto doesn't.

So I can see no logical reason why you should harm a dsg box by doing this... unless someone with a technical knowledge of dsg boxes knows different?

[skoda1982]

The pull you can feel is the clutch at biteing point in first/second gear as you come to a full stop. The clutch disengages after about 10 seconds with foot on the brake. When you let your foot off the brake the clutch goes to biteing point when you add gas the cluch fully engages and off you go

Something like that

[tonyfvrs]

I hardly ever use 'N', only in a queue where the traffic is periodically moving forward and stopping again.

If the wait will be longer it's into 'P' and engine off.

I treat the DSG as a traditional automatic and use the foot brake in day to day traffic situations, like waiting at the lights.

When on the move you have all the options, which make DSG such a delight, 'D', 'D'+paddles, stick to the left and all paddles, 'S', 'S'+paddles.

What fun.

Tony