Snow & Ice

[Mike Wrightson]

I have the Bridgestones too, they were OK. Proper winter tyres would have been better though.

[Crista]

Did I just note somebody admitted having owned an Allegro! (Only joking!!)

In the days of the older rear wheel drive cars (as Crista mentioned), come the snowy period many also resorted to carrying a bag of cement in the boot to get weight on the back end for traction! (Ask your older relatives!). Anyway, I had quite a few years of rallying way back in poor conditions, but the widest tyres we had then were 175's on 13 x5 1/2J rims. (Only a few affluent types had 6J MiniLites). That would mean that the contact patch is quiet similar to the Citigo I have, where the diameter is greater at 14", but the rim width is narrower being 5J.

So far we have not had snow here and being retired I usually can avoid venturing out when the snow comes, but I wonder how the standard ECO tyres (mine are Bridgestone Ecopia EP25's) handle being as the side walls are supposed to be more compliant than the standard. Do they handle just a little bit more like the winter tyre compositions - understanding that the tread patterns, rubber compositions for lower temperatures etc., are not the same, of course?

Feedback awaited!!

I think the Ecopia tyres have more flexible side walls by being thinner rather than by being a softer compound as a few people have said that they don't withstand kerbing very well. The winter tyres are a completely different compound and have multiple sipes which contribute most to the winter handling. But the fact that the standard wheel/tyre combination is fairly narrow by today's standards and the car is so light will help on icy roads. Hey CortinaGT (I am also retired) - I had a quite rare car once - an Allegro Estate lol - without a doubt the worst car I ever had. When I used to jack it up to change a wheel the doors on the lower side used to open by themselves!!

[Derekmack30]

Hi Crista

Did it also have the square steering wheel??

[philhoward]

Ah - the "Quartic" - changed after the first year of production (I believe) due to many people suffering broken thumbs as the wheel spun round...imagine the fun in today's litigious society!

[Crista]

Hi Crista

Did it also have the square steering wheel??

Yep that's the one - I had the special edition with a 1500 engine - anything more than 60 and it felt lethal and it burned more oil than petrol - without a doubt absolutely awful.

[SMART EXAMINER]

Yep that's the one - I had the special edition with a 1500 engine - anything more than 60 and it felt lethal and it burned more oil than petrol - without a doubt absolutely awful.

Yes they all made fun of the steering wheel,but have you noticed today lots of sport cars and super cars have steering wheels that are flat at the bottom? So you could say the Austin Agro as it was called was a trend setter ha ha!!

I had a Jaguar XJ6 years ago that used a pint of oil every 100 miles. I just put the cheap stuff in,better than a new engine.It was still a great car though,but 16 MPG. Then people today moan about 60 MPG.

[vegit8]

I had a 3 door morris marina (coupe) - its was vile!

[CortinaGT]

Ok - anybody admit to having a brown allegro?! I did once have a white 1.8 Marina Estate!

Anyway - anymore about the traction/handling from you Citigo owners with standard ECO tyres in the snow?

Edited 10 December, 2012 by CortinaGT

[Crista]

You mean Russet Brown? Nah mine was Blaze Orange.

[CortinaGT]

Did you say rusty brown? Oops sorry - misread! Actually I read that the Allegro was not so bad for rust, but appalling for problems! Did you see that back in 2010 an enthusiast spent £8,500 restoring one?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1265699/Austin-Allegro-fan-spends-8-500-restoring-800-flying-pig.html

DM quote "being voted the worst British car ever made". Sorry going off topic!

Anymore about the traction/handling from Citigo owners with standard ECO tyres in the snow?

[Robjon]

Ok - anybody admit to having a brown allegro?

Gawd.......mine was brown.....a 1.3 estate.....but at least it had a round steering wheel.......

Apologies Crista; blame me for your thread going off topic

Anyway - anymore about the traction/handling from you Citigo owners with standard ECO tyres in the snow?

[oldstan]

Do I get any points for having a 1982 brown Maestro with matching brown interior? It was the 1.3 with four speed box !!

I actually had three Maestros....the last even having electric windows, central locking and a sunroof !!

You can see I'm a man of taste and discretion.

Edited 11 December, 2012 by oldstan

[CortinaGT]

Oh dear, I suppose I will have to own up to having had a Wartburg Knight estate car then! A two stroke 999cc three cylinder engined one with free-wheel! 'Twas the second vehicle at the time of my rally prepared Hillman Hunter used in my Avatar.

[MikeW]

Yes, we had a Brown Allegro! Terrible things really, many faults. Big "end" went, exhaust fell off, Gaskets blew. We complained and they, eventually, agreed to let us swap it for a new red facelifted one, that was only slightly better...

Looking back, the Allegro was hilarious really.

[CortinaGT]

Crickey, what brave contributors we have admitting to having owned an 'all agro'!! ;-)

One thing we all must be grateful for is how much improved vehicle design and reliability is nowadays!

So nobody else owned a Wartburg? Bet many don't even now what they looked like!

Edited 12 December, 2012 by CortinaGT

[freedie]

OK OK. I will own up. I did own a Wartburg Isabella; and drove it around London, er, some years before I had a licence.

Edited 13 December, 2012 by freedie

[vegit8]

A friend used to have a SAAB 2 stroke and that freewheeled down hill as well, the reason being that the engine lube was included in the fuel and running with a closed throttle at more than tick over would cause an engine seize.

[CortinaGT]

Freedie - you sure that wasn't a Borgward Isabella? Wartburg did not make an Isabella to my knowledge?

Been reading up on the later history of Wartburg and I see they fitted a Skoda cooling system and a 1.3 VW golf engine before Opel took over the company after the fall of the Berlin Wall. Similar story to Skoda with VAG!

The Wartburg engine was modelled on the DKW two strokes, with the oil being poured in with the petrol. SAAB was the same, until their later Monte Carlo model (now where have I heard that model name recently?!) when they changed to a separate oil lube tank under the bonnet. Following that they fitted the Ford Taunus V4 four stroke.

[SMART EXAMINER]

I had a Reliant 3 wheeler van (Dell Boy) as my first car,so do i get the star prize? Mind you in those days you could drive it at 16 which i did on a motorcycle licence,so it was great driving at only 16.

Many years later i had a Jaguar V12 E Type so my cool score had returned lol.

[freedie]

Freedie - you sure that wasn't a Borgward Isabella?

Er, quite right. What an awful memory I have these days, even for one so very young

[MickA]

I had Lada Riva

It was actually a good car to me but so heavy on the steering. Some of the parts fitted to it were of questionable quality but the engine and gearbox suprisingly good for a budget car.

Mick

[aToOoOoMboi]

Although you pay for another set of tyres up front, it means you don't wear your summer ones out while the winters are on, so they last longer.

Yep, but a risky one if the weather ease up -- 15C-- one weak driving on winter tyres and it's pretty much done!

[Yeti_Man]

Yep, but a risky one if the weather ease up -- 15C-- one weak driving on winter tyres and it's pretty much done!

Having both sets means you can change when you like though. Also, I'm pretty sure Stevenage experiences lower than 7 degree weather for more than a week a year lol driving on summer rubber in cold conditions is far more 'risky' than doing it the other way around from experience. ;-)

[raj55]

No you do not destroy your winter tyres by driving one week in a +15C temperature because the winter tyres refferrred to here are the Euro winter tyres and not the ice and snow tyres used in Nordic countries (read countries with very severe winter condition). For example the extreme winter tyre like the Nokian Hakkapelita R is for the Nordic countries and the rubber is very soft. It has great grip on ice and snow. It has poor slush and dry road performance. In contrast to that Nokian WR series winter tyres are for the rest of Europe and the rubber is not that soft and the tyre is meant to be used in varying road conditions from, snow to slushy and dry environment. They are not very good for icy condition and brake poorly on ice. These will not suffer wear to the same extent as the Nokian Hakapelita R. I do not know if the usual tyre dealers in southern Europe or England even stock the extreme winter tyres like Nokian Hakka R.

I change to my Nokian Hakkapelita R just during the start of winter even before there is snow, so that I will not be surprised by sudden icy condition in the morning. AND they have held on well for three years and still look fine. After three years the rubber starts to harden and winter performance can degrade some what (but still safer than summer tyres!), and will need replacing. This last fact will make your two sets of tyre an expensive proposition, not that they wear out.

[aToOoOoMboi]

Ok, i had Michelin Alpine winter tyres on my Peugeot 307 back then and it happened with me i was driving 'normal' 50-50 city-motorway. Swapping two sets is a good idea if you can do or want to do the fittings i just cannot rush to the garage every time when i feel so. I stick with a set of all season and playing with tyre pressure. Winter tyres recommended under +7C so i believe it's not when is above. Anyway i tried before and it came out just too pricey for me, and the hassle, tyres storage etc. When bad weather comes i just leave 5 minutes early that's all it takes...well not really but i cannot control other people.