The War On Britain's Roads

[harryja]

BBC1 9PM

2 Wheels vs 4. Could be very interesting

[David 8]

Load of sensationalist crap.

the title says it all

[Macdemon]

Timer on Virgin Media TiVo box duly set, thanks for the 'heads-up'.

[Aspman]

Load of sensationalist crap.

the title says it all

On the BBC, never <- bear pooping in woods

[harryja]

[Coops]

Interesting POVs from both sides of the warring factions

Sent from my Blackberry Playbook on Tapatalk

[Macdemon]

That black taxi driver was an arsehole

Interesting documentary though

[Mike Wrightson]

Indeed. Quite disturbing in places, Cynthia is quite an inspiration though, shocking as the CCTV footage of her daughters death was.

It was good watching both sides looking at incidents, a lot of agreement in most cases. But I am REALLY glad I don't have to cycle in London, it looks like a complete nightmare! I'll stick to the quiet North thanks very much

[BJM]

The 4-eyed tw*t and the coloured vigilante with their stupid head cams and holier-than-thou attitude made me want to punch them out, and they hadn't even banged on my car because they were of the opinion that I was "getting too close".

Those 2 probably set the cause of sharing the roads back 10 years.

The most telling comment throughout the whole programme came as a voice over shots of cyclists jumping red lights - "they wouldn't do that if they had number plates."

[stever750]

The 4-eyed tw*t and the coloured vigilante with their stupid head cams and holier-than-thou attitude made me want to punch them out, and they hadn't even banged on my car because they were of the opinion that I was "getting too close".

Those 2 probably set the cause of sharing the roads back 10 years.

The most telling comment throughout the whole programme came as a voice over shots of cyclists jumping red lights - "they wouldn't do that if they had number plates."

sigh.

[Mike Wrightson]

sigh.

It's true, they wouldn't. The same mechanisms that catch cars and motorcycles would nab them too.

However, since license plates are only required for motorised vehicles, bikes will never need one. They are still vehicles though, and road rules apply. The ideal patrol in cities seems to be the Police cyclists, there should be more of them about IMHO.

For me, the lawyer cyclist, the old taxi driver and the lorry driver talked a lot of sense. The "vigilante" cyclists not so much. There seems to be an element of almost looking for trouble so it can be filmed on the helmet cam. I sometimes wear mine, but I feel that if I wear it all the time I might start behaving like that, so I don't bother any more. Also, even though they don't weigh much, they aren't the most comfortable things to have hanging off your helmet.

[vindaloo]

I've been a car driver overtaking cyclists when it got dodgy, I've been a cyclist nearly pranged by cars.

Haven't had many accidents, fortunately. Highly developed sense of hurting has helped hone it

IMO driving in major towns is almost like being in a fight or a battle. From doctors/experiments we know what effect driving in crowded conditions has on people. It's stressful, so is cycling in close proximity to traffic. Is it any wonder things kick off now and then.

Ideally we'd separate classes of road user or trail user. As that's not going to happen in most cases we're left with education.

From the programme in question, it's positive to see that most of the people interviewed seemed to have learned something through their encounters.

LOL at the punchy bloke in the Peugeot getting nicked, saw that vid months ago and wondered whether matters had progressed. Also interesting to hear the fuller story.

J.

[stever750]

It's true, they wouldn't. The same mechanisms that catch cars and motorcycles would nab them too.

However, since license plates are only required for motorised vehicles, bikes will never need one. They are still vehicles though, and road rules apply. The ideal patrol in cities seems to be the Police cyclists, there should be more of them about IMHO.

For me, the lawyer cyclist, the old taxi driver and the lorry driver talked a lot of sense. The "vigilante" cyclists not so much. There seems to be an element of almost looking for trouble so it can be filmed on the helmet cam. I sometimes wear mine, but I feel that if I wear it all the time I might start behaving like that, so I don't bother any more. Also, even though they don't weigh much, they aren't the most comfortable things to have hanging off your helmet.

It's the same old cliche trotted out many time, in reality is unworkable, and frankly would kill of cycling as a form of pastime. The money is better spent on segregating cyclists from motorised vehicles. And yes, I'm the first to admit that the majority of cyclists be they commuters, tree huggers, amatuer club riders etc etc completely ignore the highway code regularly, so hardly promoting the cause. Personally, I avoid riding on the road in the winter, as too many close shaves for me, and that's even lit up like a Christmas tree. I've got no time for headcams or anything like that, I just want to ride without being hurt. Truth is that t0ssers are randomly spread between all road users.

Thing is though, AFAIK no t0sser cyclist has ever killed a motorist in a direct collision.

[Macdemon]

I was gobsmacked at the MORON who got sandwiched between a black pick up and a double decker bus..................OMG

serves that IDIOT right, but I feel sorry for the person who eventually kills him due to his stupidity and carelessness.

[Richard46]

As a cyclist and motorist I found it very interesting and I thought quite constructive. Especially towards the end with some people revising their positions. I was nearly killed twenty years when I went over a car that pulled out of a side road right in front of me and it could happen again so anything that might make people (motorists and cyclists) more aware of the 'issues' is good.

[nickguzzi]

In Frankfurt, which I mention only as a portent of the future, its deeply uncool to have an "audible warning device",the usual way is to force their way through. Front lights are rare, although there are a lot of intensely bight rear flashing jobbies. Brakes seem to be coming optional too.

Cyclist pressure groups have persuaded the authorities to allow cycles to use one way streets the wrong way, this is now taken to also mean cycle on the wrong side of the road. At night. With no lights. In black clothing.

If you ever read Swallows and Amazons, the bit about "... if not duffers won't drown, if duffers, better drowned..." comes to mind.

Being Germany the rules are clear. Like here the observance is down to the clown concerned. Cycle ways are clearly marked, some times as part of the carriageway, sometimes part of the footpath. As usual, most just get on, putting up with minor infractions and inconveniences with a shrug or huhruph,

I have been knocked over a couple of times by cyclists. First was a nurse who tried to ride between my partner and myself. She could have hit my disabled sister, probably knocking her into the river. She could have gone round the other side, no problem. This was on a public "walk way", ie no cycles, skateboards or inlines.

The other time was on a big pedestrian walkway waiting to cross at controlled lights, knocked down by a total loon, looked and behaved very like Charles Manson. He only stopped long enough to abuse me. Lots of tut tutting from bystanders, who also got a mouthful. HE zoomed off, cutting straight across the front of traffic.

On a different tack, I have noticed that even here in a slumbering market town, stupid kids on stupid bikes, no doubt bought by stupid parents. They have no brakes!!!! Why aren't they and the importers locked up. I can't the only one to have seen them, look a bit like an oversize scooter with a seat.

Stopping facilitated by putting your feet down. OMG silly stupid foolish or what.

just practicing my newly refound edit key: not watched the programme.

Edited 6 December, 2012 by nickguzzi

[Coops]

The 4-eyed tw*t and the coloured vigilante with their stupid head cams and holier-than-thou attitude made me want to punch them out,

Agreed and the programme portrayed them as "vigilantes" even though we couldn't necessary see what their road positioning etc was like

For me, the lawyer cyclist, the old taxi driver and the lorry driver talked a lot of sense. The "vigilante" cyclists not so much. There seems to be an element of almost looking for trouble so it can be filmed on the helmet cam.

That's the impression I formed also, in fact the lawyer chap (Cormac?) was very reasoned and sensible about the whole approach. However, the "Traffic Droid" just seemed to be out for an argument all the time, when the van and trailer cut him up, whaty was he doing in the middle of 2 lanes of traffic?

Clearly the tanker driver didn't see the cyclist on the r/b at all, and I did feel for that cyclist at that point. But the Cemex driver was again very sensible. What get's me is it's always the driver of the motor vehicle that has to do something - you don't see signs by the side of the road saying "Think lorry" or "Think car", it's about time some education of the cyclists et al was done.

The money is better spent on segregating cyclists from motorised vehicles. And yes, I'm the first to admit that the majority of cyclists be they commuters, tree huggers, amatuer club riders etc etc completely ignore the highway code regularly, so hardly promoting the cause.

At least the mobile police officers seemed to be doing their part, and fair play to that one who chased the motorcyclist down!

I was gobsmacked at the MORON who got sandwiched between a black pick up and a double decker bus..................OMG

serves that IDIOT right, but I feel sorry for the person who eventually kills him due to his stupidity and carelessness.

Having a different view point on the cameras certainly enabled me to determine where the blame lied, it's not always black and white where the cyclist road positioning is when the camera is on their head.

[bowen]

Very good programme I thought. The web developer (24, glasses) and "Traffic droid" who started crying, totally did my head in.

[BossFox]

I found it quite informative.

Just goes to show there are a fair few idiots out there, irrespective of whether they are on 2 wheels or 4.

Some of the cyclists and drivers I found willing to take amazing risks, with huge possible consequences.

The Cyclist that tried to go between the red bus and the black pickup was just plain bonkers.

Sad that when he does kill himself the driver will probably be assumed to be in the wrong, and will have to live with it.

Fortunately we have very few cyclist related incidents at work, considering we are in London.

The worst one was where a cyclist hit the back of a minibus so hard his head broke the rear window.

[matt_theforce]

More education is required on the Cyclists & the Motorists side.

I've said it before and again any motorist who has a driving license should have to take a refresher course every 5-10years, to have their driving habits checked & have an update on the highway code. Every cyclist should have a Cycling Proficiency (possibly a license to say they have passed) test and again should have a refresher course too.

I was clipped by a car on my way home from work last night on the bike. It's along a strech of the A61 thats got a very poor road surface and numerous grates over 6" lower than the road surface and currently under water towards the kerb so I sit a little further out into the road than normal. The lady who overtook had seen me but not the car turning out of the juction on the right, the car turning left out of the junction hadn't seen the lady overtaking me so I was the one who came off worse and was forced into the flood water (approx 4-5" deep) hit a pothole and proceeded to swerve until I regained control of the bike, 1/2mile or so down the road the lady had pulled over into a field entrance, she started to shout at me, telling me to pull over whilst looking at her wingmirror/passenger door on her 61plate merc, I pulled over (not sure I should have done) and she instantly appologised and asked if I was ok and did I want her to call me an ambulance.

We had a few minutes chatting, she was raged at me sitting so far from the kerb but once I explained why she was supprised at how much difference the road surface/pot holes etc can make to a cyclist and fully understood why I now do it.

We both went on our way happy even though she has to explain to her husband how she managed to crack the passenger mirror on their Merc.

I recognised the car and she often passes me in the same area, I shall keep an eye out for her tonight and give her a as she goes passed, it will no doubt cheer us both up on our commute.

A little bit of knowledge shared between motorists/cyclists will go a long way into improving road positions and manners for everyone and ultimately make the roads safer and more enjoyable for all of us.

I used to commute through London on a bike and was shocked back then at how many cyclists had such disregard for the rules of the road but seeing that program (I know staged) last night shocked me how bad it now appears in the 7years since I left London

Matthew

[bilun777]

I was horrified by the speed of some of the cyclists.

Aren't all road users supposed to exercise caution near potential hazards ,eg roundabouts ,traffic lights,pedestrians.

Why do so many cyclists think they are exempt?

[BossFox]

Possibly, it's because cyclists are not tracable.

No license, no insurance, no identification.

Unless they are caught in the act there is nothing the law can do.

If a cyclist hits a vehicle, it's usually the fault of the vehicle unless clearly proved otherwise.

Personally, if they jump a red light or do something equally silly they should automatically be unable to claim against the vehicle.

But how on earth would you police something like that?

Part of the problem IMO is that when the roads were built they did not envisage cyclists mixing with motor vehicles.

Adding a cycle lane that consists of a white line without road widening doesn't create any extra space.

[Mike Wrightson]

To balance it out, there were loads of other cyclists in the background of the programme, just quietly getting on with it and being sensible. They wore the right clothing, had lights etc. etc. I think that some of the more loony cyclists don't drive. If they did they may realise how hard it is to see a dark object from inside a car at night. I do, so I make sure I can be seen. I also think that a lot more car drivers should try cycling ina town a few times to see what it's like from the other side.

If the programme suggests that cycling is the most dangerous thing in the world, it really isn't... as long as you are sensible. My commute to work has never been any more eventful than this: (it takes 20mins, but it would be REALLY boring to watch it all)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GrZ1h8aygc&list=UU9KWFB7bShUmvQW829WKsww&index=4

[Waplord]

I saw this program and it reinforced a value in my mind that i've had for a long time that Bicycles should have some kind of number plate on them as they do in other countries, should be made to wear a helmet by law and should also be insured at a 3rd party level at a minimum.

There is no easy solution to the problems presented in last nights show, motorists should give cyclists more room on the road but at the same time cyclists shouldn't be putting themselves in danger for example riding up on the inside on a lorry where it's hard for the driver to see them.

[bilun777]

See what you mean Mike.

That would have made one boring hour long programme.

You never rode on the pavement,jumped a red traffic light,you even missed the old lady on the footpath.

All the Psycho car/van drivers must live in London.