What will happen to the prediction league if Mercedes are disqualified from any races following the test?

It will be either a lot of money or disqualification from the Monaco or both. Ban for the rest of the season is unlikely.

But what about Pirelli? As sole supplier they have the FIA over a barrel

How so? There's not much they can do for this season really. They can screw up next season if they get fed up with all the crap...

It will be either a lot of money or disqualification from the Monaco or both. Ban for the rest of the season is unlikely.

yup, I'm guessing Nico can keep the trophy but Mercedes have to give back his and Lewis' points.

Pirelli could walk and dump Bernie and the FIA in it. Bernie obviously has a backup plan. He could be calling their bluff though. Saw Vettel signed only a 1 year extension. Probably to see what Newey does next and what these new engines are like.

It will probably be all on Mercedes. They may try and use Ross as a scapegoat but I bet there's quite a few behind the scenes at Mercedes who the FIA would like gone. There is a rumour that if Merc upper management aren't happy about the whole thing they'll pull out of F1 leaving two good drivers without drives.

As for the last race weekend in Canada one thing above all else really stood out. Paul Hembery withdrew, on advice from the Pirelli legal team, from the FIA team boss press conference! Talking with a friend of mine about it our thought was, well, if a driver gets a fine for missing one then what will the FIA do with Hembrey?! Then when you think about it, it becomes much more interesting. We all think it's Ross Brawn will get the blame for it. But what if Hembery had to pull out because there was a reporter or two there aiming to land most of the blame on Pirelli with some juicy bits of information from, maybe, Brawn himself?! Now, if, as I suspect, the FIA have basically given Hembery and Pirelli immunity of sorts in this matter then maybe it was the FIA behind the move as they wanted any evidence to come out in their court room and not a press conference. Either which way you cut it seems as if that tribunal in Paris on the 20th is going to be pretty explosive!

Saw Vettel signed only a 1 year extension. Probably to see what Newey does next and what these new engines are like.

I thought it was because Luca di Montezemolo said that Vettel wouldn't drive for Ferrari whilst Alonso was there.

It will probably be all on Mercedes. They may try and use Ross as a scapegoat but I bet there's quite a few behind the scenes at Mercedes who the FIA would like gone. There is a rumour that if Merc upper management aren't happy about the whole thing they'll pull out of F1 leaving two good drivers without drives.

Merc have pumped a hell of a lot of cash into F1, and so far without success. They've recruited (read poached) some top guys from other teams - Toto Wolff, Paddy Lowe, and have the strongest back room setup of any of the teams, with something like 5 ex-team chiefs. Top Merc Management have never been quiet about the fact that they are dissatisfied with the results so far and have often threatened to withdraw if the success doesn't come soon.

However, they have already started development on the 2014 car and engine, still have McLaren as a customer in 2014 and also have Nico and Lewis on contracts - although the threat is there I can't see them following through just yet.

Top Merc Management have never been quiet about the fact that they are dissatisfied with the results so far and have often threatened to withdraw if the success doesn't come soon.

Understandable view point but doesn't stop it being slightly sad. One of the reasons I've never been a fan of 'manufacturer' teams, one political spat or a run of results where they're simply outperformed and they run off crying like a spoilt child. (Ferrari being the exception, of course.)

Not sure it has mentioned before, but worth throwing into the 2014 Tyre debacle that Pirelli / Bernie have agreed the trackside advertising rights.

No other tyre manufacturer in their right mind will want to supply with a competitor's advertising trackside.

Guy

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So Pirelli are approved supplier but Bridgestone, Dunlop et al can advertise at the track??

I think if anything one thing is crystal clear, Mercedes made the biggest balls up of this season with that testing. It was obvious from Ross's body language, choice of words and eviden lawyers prep he undergone prior to being interviewed by EJ on BBC pre Canada GP. Did they REALLY think nobody is going to object or simply nod to their explanation of how they though it was legal? There was a mention of a piece of paper they allegedly had from FIA blessing the test but at the moment it is a rumour. Brawn is an old cunning fox and he showed how to play the system big time when he won DWC with JB. It is to be seen if this time he bit more than he could chew. F1, as said as it is, is not about drivers, teams, competition. It is about TV audiences of billions and behemot advertising machine it spawned. People with this kind of money are very powerful (Red Bull comes to mind and their arrogance comes from that) - it is all about money making machine and Bernie is rather good at keeping the cogs well oiled and running smoothly.

Mercedes controversy is just another thing fuelling the fires in the money making engines. Outcome is irrelevant for FOM amd F1 in general.

Merc bosses will be well vexed when pronounced to be cheating. My feeling is that they will have their knuckles rapped and it will all boil down to rules misinterpretation with no wilfull wrongiong proved. As for penalties, as I wrote above, the worse can be points deductions for Merc team, perhaps not for the drivers, certainly large sum of money for FIA staff bonuses/new furniture etc will demanded.

Agreed. I'd be surprised if anything more severe than points deductions is handed out to Merc. Remember Ferrari/McLaren spy-gate? That was exclusion from the constructors championship for McLaren but I'd consider what happened then to be much more severe than some testing on tyres that are (according to Ross, anyway) irrelevant to the current championship season.

Merc are supplying Williams engine from next year too are they not?

I have to say I agree 100% with Jabo & Martyn about Vettel. Its his stinking attitude that really gets me. Moans that Webber is "too slow" get him out the way, if he is that slow, pass him, dont wait for them to be cruising "bringing the cars home" and then overtake him. Then he bitches that Merc dont do the warm up lap fast enough, his like a child that doesnt get his own way, he come across as such a arrogent *****.

I was never a Alonso fan, but last year he changed my opinion of him. Yes he was a ****** at McLaren but he went as the reigning champ and had some wet behind the ears newbie dusting him, while I didnt like it, I can understand it to a extent. Last year he took it down to the wire in a car that was in all fairness a dog. Imagine what he'd do to Vettel if he had the same car.

Also enjoying seeing Force India doing well, I quite like Sutil & am a fan of Di Resta, decent drive last week too, he has got to get a podium this season!

2014 will be good, if nothing else, it's kinda a level playing field to a point. I'm really hoping McLaren get it sorted, Button in a good car is right at the top IMO and it'd be good to see him back there fighting it out with Hamilton, Alonso & Kimi

What we know who has what so far

http://www.standingstart.net/index.php?threads/2014-engines.233/

Next year will be a great leveller. Lots of new regs, lots of things going on. Teams get more testing next year too meaning there should be no excuses.

He he, they went for this type of charge cooling - looks ridiculous

So Pirelli are approved supplier but Bridgestone, Dunlop et al can advertise at the track??

Technically yes; but in practice no.

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FIA tribunal with Pirelli & Merc underway in Paris - latest news is that Mercedes did not seek permission to go ahead with the test, Merc did ask in general terms about using a 2013 car but any permission given was conditional on other teams being informed, which they weren't.

Pirelli are taking the stance similar to that of Flavio B - they are claiming that as a supplier and third party to F1, they cannot be bound by the sporting regulations.

Decision is likely tomorrow on penalities etc.

Plot thickens! No wonder Brawn was so cagey during intewievs lol.

A verdict is due today into whether Merc and Pirelli broke the rules over an unauthorised test - what re your thoughts?

Points deduction and fine for Merc? What for Pirelli?

I've just been invited to a 'full hospitality' for Qualifying at the British GP. Brilliant.

Tyre test inquiry seems to have more twists than an Alpine Pass; no way to predict the outcome.

Guy

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Well, the more I read about it the more it seems like old Ross took a royal pi$$ at all other teams and pulled a sneaky one.

They also throwing their toys out of the sand pit over Ferrari "tyre tests" before Barcelona, which incidentally they won

Harris went on to effectively say that they would accept sanctions but they have to minor...

Elswhere thay are saying that they will protest Ferrari tests if they get punished by now.

To add to the pot Merc is threatening with withdrawal from the sport and Pirelli is threatenin to sue FIA - what a circus!

I can almost see Bernie cackling with glee seeing his accounts balance swell on the wave of this publicity .

Other news - Renault launch their 2014 F1 engine today - a little teaser:

lol So they got away with it then. Hands slapped and not allowed to take part in the young drivers day.

An absolute waste of time - technically the FIA have found Mercedes guilty-ish. A non decision.

Reminder of the facts

On 5 June 2013, further to protests lodged during the 2013 Monaco GP by Red Bull Racing and Ferrari Scuderia Team against cars n°9 and 10 (Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team) for having conducted with Pirelli a three day tyre testing using a 2013 car on 15, 16 and 17 May in Barcelona, the President of the FIA, acting as the FIA Prosecuting Body, sent to the President of the International Tribunal a notification of charges against Pirelli and a notification of charges against Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team.

On 5 June 2013, Pirelli and Mercedes AMG Petronas F1 Team have been convened by the President of the International Tribunal to appear before a judging panel of the International Tribunal.

Decision of the International Tribunal

The Tribunal, after having heard the parties and examined their submissions, decided that:

1. Mercedes be reprimanded;
   

1. Mercedes be suspended from participating in the forthcoming “three day young driver training test”;
   

1. Pirelli be reprimanded.
   

and rejected all other and further conclusions.

The International Tribunal was presided over by Mr Edwin GLASGOW QC (Great Britain), and included Mr Christy HARRIS (United States), Mr Patrick RAEDERSDORF (Switzerland) and Mr Anthony SCOTT ANDREWS (Great Britain).

Full decision here