Replace kerbs with low walls - problem solved!

Or better still, replace the rumble strips/kerbs with what's on the edge of them......GRASS!

They have all the other data on cars and track information,

so use the GPS and if the vehicles cover less distance or leave the track during a race, other than due to a racing incident, then give out the penalties or have them with a loss of final position.

 

No idea what was in the story mentioned yesterday about the lap being shorter with going into the pits.

(did i mis-hear or understand that, or did cars pitting more often do shorter race distances.?)

 

Were tyres blowing in the same way this season before Silverstone,

 or only once some teams/drivers thought they could set up the cars to attack the kerbs?

(as they used to in other formulas/cars/tyres earlier in their careers, but which was not possible as the F1 cars were designed last year.)

 

george

It's rather bizzare how quick everybody was to go out with pitch forks and flaming torches after Pirelli, especially in the light of what Gary Anderson showed at the end of BBC's coverage. To withstand repetetive abrasion from those sharp inside edges of the rumble strips at very high speeds and at low tyre pressure the tyres would have to have a run flat type construction lol. The F1 rubber is simply nopt designed to be used in this way and as others popinted out white lines delineate the race track, go outside and you are doing it at your own peril to gain the advantage. Greedy drivers were very keen to put the blame at Pirelli's door steps.

Another one to think about is that surely during practivce sessions they must have noticed this type of tyre damage as they run full race fuel stints at race pace and must have used the kerbs the same way they did during the race. Funny how they instantly new what to do with it with radio messages urging drivers to avoid kerbs and with increased tyre pressures - makes me laugh how they think they can treat people like idiots...

Pirell has absolutely nothing to do with tyre failures and are 100% blameless here!

Spot on. I don't want to come over as if I know all, because I really don't. But newer F1 fans know very little and are quick to shout about just on what they see rather than full facts. Some newer fans don't even know of Schumachers dominance let alone how unreliable cars of old used to be. Do many of them remember Mansell's tyre exploding at Adelaide? That was before I was born but I know about it. Cars would regularly break down, components fail, etc and I think some newer fans are shocked by some unreliability.

It's so easy to blame Pirelli but they are making a tyre that FIA wanted. They could have easily made a tyre like Michelin do that lasts ages but that's not what was asked for. Lower pressures didn't help, teams were told not to go too low and not use more than the kerb but they didn't listen and now teams are blaming Pirelli when in fairness to them they did try and fix the problem but certain teams wouldn't agree to the changes because it could change the compound too much. Lotus and Force India I can't blame either because both are doing well on them and if Di Resta hadn't got his penalty he could have ended up on a podium.

A few other twists. Derek Warwick said it's not the kerbs. I agree it's just the way drivers are using them. http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/07/01/uk-motor-racing-tyres-silverstone-idUKBRE9600F920130701

And this photo of Vettel's tyre. See the note above the picture. The FIA really needs to get a grip of this.

They have all the other data on cars and track information,

so use the GPS and if the vehicles cover less distance or leave the track during a race, other than due to a racing incident, then give out the penalties or have them with a loss of final position.

 

But they are driving to the rules which state "You must keep two wheels within the white lines at all times" and so will take the quickest route keeping to that rule. They don't have to mess around with GPS if they don't want people on curbs they just say your not allowed any wheels over the white lines. Job done. Anyone that does will get pulled up mid-race.

 

I think the big issue is the fact that the tyres are exploding - they just shouldn't be doing that. If they are cut then they should deflate not blow up which is the safety issue. The cause of the issue is almost a different issue.

And this photo of Vettel's tyre. See the note above the picture. The FIA really needs to get a grip of this.

 

The FIAs solution is allowing Pirelli to do a 2x 3 day tests when they want with no restrictions????? Well that was Bernie's response not necessarily that of the FIA!

Simples just replace the white line with a continuous stinger laid round the track - that would make them stay withing the confines of the track - LOL

 

Did seem to be a bit of an issue on Sunday, blow as Lewis would probably have won, nice to see Vettel's luck run out at last.

No idea what was in the story mentioned yesterday about the lap being shorter with going into the pits.

(did i mis-hear or understand that, or did cars pitting more often do shorter race distances.?)

 

george

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silverstone_Circuit Look at the top left corner of the circuit map, where you can see the the track passing the pit entry (grey rather than black line), turning left then 180deg right, and another right before the pit exit. The statement that you do a few yards less by going through the F1 pits is correct.

These tyres have a steel belt at the core.They did want to go to with more kevlar in the construction but haven't heard much more about it. I know it was more costly and that having a steel belt the tyres did heat up more.

That article you linked to Martyn is touching on few important subjects and shines a little more light on what is going on under the covers. It is immensly political and has nothing to do with the ability, or lack of it , of Pirelli making a lasting tyre. They will make a tyre which can last all season but will have a grip of what we are used to un on vRS Dunlops in the wet . That is not the point here really. Kerbs are what they are and teams and drivers know extremely well that there was a risk of tyre damage with lower pressures (to provide more grip) and agressive kerb driving (to shave some tenths off). Some took that risk the others didn't. Rosberg was very close to having his tyres blow but was saved by the Safety Car and tyre change.

Also, do not forget that 50% of suspension travel comes from the tyre side wall, make it harder and the cars will be jumping about like mad hares. We've all seen the slow-mo's and how tyres work in corners. Now imagine the kerb edge Gary Anderson was showing being right next to that moving tyre side wall at high speed. No need to be a tyre scientist to conclude the side wall will be torn to ribbons. Add high speed sraight and tyres disintegrate in a spectacular fashion .

 

If I was in Pirelli shoes I'd be getting some strong statements out now...

All fair points Jabozuma about the sharp edge on the kerb, I am still confused though about how we're suddenly seeing this kind of failure due to running over the kerbs when F1 drivers have been running over kerbs like that for years.  Also, the regulations on track limits currently say that two wheels must be within the track boundary at all times, the drivers are breaking absolutely no rules by running over the kerbs so saying "keep within the track" is not a valid argument, as they are keeping within the track limits as far as the current regulations are concerned.

 

Similar failures/delaminations earlier this season have seen Pirelli blame track debris cutting the tyres.

 

I'm with Martin Whitmarsh on this, debris on the track is a fact of life and the tyres have to be able to live with that (within reason, obviously!). Pirelli may well have been asked to produce tyres that are as stable as a wet paper bag by the FIA, but that doesn't make it acceptable when on track safety is compromised.  Vergne's tyre failure immediately in front of Alonso could have seen a very serious accident occur.

 

Ultimately this is probably more likely down to the fact that Pirelli have no car representative of the current cars (which are all designed to live within the technical regulations of the formula) to test their tyres on during the design phase. This was precisely why they sought the tyre test that got them and Mercedes in to trouble in the first place.

 

One comment put forward by a lot of F1 fans at the moment is "they all have the same tyres, they should be designing the cars around the tyres" - but this isn't what formula racing is about, they have a set of technical regulations governing every aspect of the car and it is those regulations that the cars are designed around - if the tyres cannot cope (in terms of structural integrity, I'm not talking grip levels) with the loads and stresses put on them by cars that meet those regulations then IMO the tyres are not fit for purpose.

 Kerbs are what they are and teams and drivers know extremely well that there was a risk of tyre damage with lower pressures (to provide more grip) and agressive kerb driving (to shave some tenths off). Some took that risk the others didn't.

 

I disagree with that. If you play back every driver yesterday I bet they are all cutting the curb. It looks much more like luck as to which drivers were hit by the damage than anything else. The big highlighted on turn 4 ironically if you cut the corner a lot was not an issue it was only those slightly cutting the corner where the car might slide back over the curb.

 Ithink we are mixing two things here. Reason I am saying this is the astonishing consistency of left rear (most) or left front (one?) tyre failures roughly around the same part of the track. If it was debris, carbon fibre or something like that then failures would have been random and more wide spread. The type of damage, which tyre was being damaged and where clearly suggests a pattern. This patern is driving that rear left wheel outside the kerb altogether (not illegally, still other two wheels fully within white lines) causing inner side wall to be cut bu the sharp kerb. The ones who were using the kerbs "smartly" didn't cut their tyres...

The point is perhaps that the tyre should not disintegrate in such a wholesome and catastrophic way ejecting steel belt in such spectacular fashion making following drivers play "Dodge tha Belt " game...

As Thecko said, F1 cars have been going over kerbs for years, the tyres should be able to cope with that shouldnt they? If not they surely are not fit for purpose. I could understand if it was one or two tyres went but not as many as yesterday.

 

They wanted to change to kevlar belt but Lotus and others refused it. 

Autosport is reporting, with a few caveats, that the FIA is willing to let Pirelli use 2013 cars for testing and that they were told this on Saturday night, not after the race.

Pirelli have two private tests scheduled in the next three weeks and were due to use their 2010 Renault test car.

It is also reported that the three day young driver test at Silverstone may be turned into a Tyre test. NB: spectators welcome £15 per day! Great opportunity to see cars in action at nominal cost.

Guy

Sent from my Xperia S using TapaTalk 4 beta

It is also reported that the three day young driver test at Silverstone may be turned into a Tyre test. NB: spectators welcome £15 per day! Great opportunity to see cars in action at nominal cost.

Guy

Sent from my Xperia S using TapaTalk 4 beta

Ohh, I'm only down the road, will check it out! Cheers

The FIAs solution is allowing Pirelli to do a 2x 3 day tests when they want with no restrictions????? Well that was Bernie's response not necessarily that of the FIA!

Has Ross booked 2x black helmets?

Has Ross booked 2x black helmets?

No he's putting on 'security'.

Well, now we know why Hamilton was such an arse.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/showbiz/4991036/nicole-scherzinger-lewis-hamilton-split.html

Ok look at it another way..

Either kerbs or tyre caused sundays problems

If kerbs then all track days at silverstone you book be it saloons or single seaters that you drive will be dangerous

This venue has run for years without problems before this weekend

Pirelli are going to switch to kevlar belts for Germany GP before reverting to 2012 tyres for Hungary.

I hate those knee jerk reactions! Such a shame they will be reverting to 2012 rubber...

some bookies have slashed the odds on Button going to Red Bull, do they know something?

some bookies have slashed the odds on Button going to Red Bull, do they know something?

Yes; they know that they're getting a lot of bets on this happening.

I doubt it, RB clearly stated that they will consider their "internal" drivers pool before venturing out. I honestly cannot see JB at Red Bull...

Next year will be the deciding one. If Macca doesn't pull it off with the blown motors then JB will be gone.