Out of curiosity is 8 gears too many? Ive owned BMW 6 speed autos beofre and liked them very much. My current car has DSG with 6 speeds and paddles. I love using the paddles but i would imagine shuffling between 8 gears might become tiresome. How do you find it? 8 or even 9 gears when in full auto D mode probably wouldnt make a noticeable difference but when manually shifting it must be hard to remember what gear your in without resorting to looking at the dash display.

I find you just know when to Change by the sound of the engine. The numbers don't play a part, when your used to say doing a corner in 3rd gear etc you just assume any car would be 3rd. But you soon know by the sound and feel of the car what gear to be in

No, 8 gears is fine. Because they don't seem to use all of them and go up or down one at a time.

I know on Land Rovers with the 8 speed it'll stay in 4th or 5th while you accelerate brisky and then drop into 7th or 8th for cruising.

Having 8 gives a better spread of options.

Out of curiosity is 8 gears too many? Ive owned BMW 6 speed autos beofre and liked them very much. My current car has DSG with 6 speeds and paddles. I love using the paddles but i would imagine shuffling between 8 gears might become tiresome. How do you find it? 8 or even 9 gears when in full auto D mode probably wouldnt make a noticeable difference but when manually shifting it must be hard to remember what gear your in without resorting to looking at the dash display.

I don't find 8 too many in manual mode as 1st is really low and 8th is really tall so you find yourself using the middle 6. You do find yourself grabbing ratios quickly off the line though. The ZF8HP reacts instantly though so this isn't really a problem. The 7 speed box in the new Merc A Class has one less ratio but as it's slow to react to manual inputs it becomes tiresome in manual mode and you have to pull the paddle before you reach your shift point.

Cheers

Lee

No, 8 gears is fine. Because they don't seem to use all of them and go up or down one at a time.

I know on Land Rovers with the 8 speed it'll stay in 4th or 5th while you accelerate brisky and then drop into 7th or 8th for cruising.

Having 8 gives a better spread of options.

He was asking about manual mode though and in manual you are sequential shifting just + or - .

In D or D/S it will block change and can change from 8th to 2nd in one 200 millisecond shift if required.

Lee

Edited 4 April, 201313 yr by logiclee

With autos now having 8 and some coming out with 9 ratios would a decent CVT not make more sense? I personally would quite happily have a CVT box as i tried one years ago in a 2.0 petrol Audi A4 and i quite liked it. You always have drive so never have that stutter as it swaps gears when exciting a junction or whatever. Plus you still get the traditinal fixed ratios when you want some manual shifting fun and games. I just cant see any downsides of this type of gearbox. I know they have torque limitations but surely these could be engineered around?

You basically end up with limitless ratios meaning the engine is always running at optimum speeds. Yes it can feel strange but you get used to it plus ill wager an 8 speed auto doesnt feel that much different when in waft mode as the revs surely wont rise and fall so much as it will just keep swapping ratios to maintain the optimum revs i.e just what a CVT does.

Torque limitation and reliability has always been an issue on CVT especially when pushing the extreme ratios.

But I think the main issue is motoring reviews and feedback from the public, most people just don't like the revs staying the same and the speed catching up. Feels like a slipping clutch. Some CVT's have a snatchy feel from the line and an inconsistent creep function.

The ZF 8hp does keep the revs in a specific range most of the time but one of the main features is the "Aggressive lock up strategy" basically it can have direct drive from 1200rpm in 2nd gear which is why it feels so much like a DSG or automated manual and is why it achieves such impressive economy figures.

Cheers

Lee

Edited 4 April, 201313 yr by logiclee

Torque limitation and reliability has always been an issue on CVT especially when pushing the extreme ratios.

But I think the main issue is motoring reviews and feedback from the public, most people just don't like the revs staying the same and the speed catching up. Feels like a slipping clutch. Some CVT's have a snatchy feel from the line and an inconsistent creep function.

The ZF 8hp does keep the revs in a specific range most of the time but one of the main features is the "Aggressive lock up strategy" basically it can have direct drive from 1200rpm in 2nd gear which is why it feels so much like a DSG or automated manual and is why it achieves such impressive economy figures.

Cheers

Lee

Yea these new ZF autos that lock up early do seem good. The auto box on the 07 plate Shogun we have feels like its slushing the gears nearly all the time. It never feels like its locked up except untill your above 50mph.

The slushing feature of autos is what makes take off so smooth but i must admit the direct feeling you get with a DSG is nice also. Having a small amount of slush and then direct lock up very early does seem the ideal solution though. Mazdas new auto box locks up very early to as this does seem to eb the key factor in improving the economy of traditional auto boxes. I dont think many manufactureres have autos like these though hence why their economy figures for the auto equivilent model is always about 10% poorer compared to the manual version. Hopefully this will change in time thereby making the likes of a kia or hyundai auto a serious option as currently i think these boxes are pretty old tech.

Out of curiosity is 8 gears too many? Ive owned BMW 6 speed autos beofre and liked them very much. My current car has DSG with 6 speeds and paddles. I love using the paddles but i would imagine shuffling between 8 gears might become tiresome. How do you find it? 8 or even 9 gears when in full auto D mode probably wouldnt make a noticeable difference but when manually shifting it must be hard to remember what gear your in without resorting to looking at the dash display.

I only have 7 gears (I remember when I was happy with 4 ) but the auto is so smooth in normal mode, you can't use the manual shifts unless you turn off the radio. The engines in these modern cars are so quiet you can't hear if they have changed (hence turning the radio off) and if you are pootling along on a winding road, you can't tell if the gear has shifted or not, at least you can't unless you look at the teeny gear number indicator on the dash. Sport mode is a little more obvious, as the shifts are much quicker and the accelerator reponse is much sharper so you can tell which gear you are in. It's a good gear box on the Merc, but it isn't quite as good as the BMW 8 speed.

Edited 4 April, 201313 yr by Lady Elanore

Hopefully this will change in time thereby making the likes of a kia or hyundai auto a serious option as currently i think these boxes are pretty old tech.

Hyundai are working on a 10 speed conventional auto.

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/hyundai-10-speed-transmission-coming-in-2014-39156.html

Cheers

Lee

Another good Merc deal:

Another good deal on the Mercs here:

MERCEDES-BENZ C CLASS DIESEL COUPE C220 CDI BlueEFFICIENCY AMG Sport 2dr

Profile: 9 + 23

Period: 24 months

Mileage PA: 10,000

Prices from: £219 pcm + VAT for personal

From contracthireandleasing

I have just had the same car 335d leave me standing I've got a 4x4 octy 220 bhp lol

With autos now having 8 and some coming out with 9 ratios would a decent CVT not make more sense? I personally would quite happily have a CVT box as i tried one years ago in a 2.0 petrol Audi A4 and i quite liked it. You always have drive so never have that stutter as it swaps gears when exciting a junction or whatever. Plus you still get the traditinal fixed ratios when you want some manual shifting fun and games. I just cant see any downsides of this type of gearbox. I know they have torque limitations but surely these could be engineered around?

You basically end up with limitless ratios meaning the engine is always running at optimum speeds. Yes it can feel strange but you get used to it plus ill wager an 8 speed auto doesnt feel that much different when in waft mode as the revs surely wont rise and fall so much as it will just keep swapping ratios to maintain the optimum revs i.e just what a CVT does.

I see the way you're thinking; My Mum's Jazz has the CVT with a "sports" (on a 1.4?) mode that turns it into a 7-speed flappy paddle to drive.

Just playing fantasy car buyer (fuelled by a lot of alcohol ) and I see that BMW are at last offering some seriously good offers on the 3 series. The new PCP rates have reduced the monthly payments for an equivalent car to mine by nearly £200 a month!! I reckon a similar spec 330D would only be about another £40 a month or there abouts (including a decent discount of around 10%). I would dearly love one of these cars, but there again, I truly love my current car and it isn't very often I can say that with as much certainty. The down side of all this is, but the time I return my current wheels, the BMW will be undergoing a facelift and the prices will have gone back up :( Mind you, the new C class will have been out for about a year, so perhaps there will be decent deals to be done on that or there again, I might be struggling for work as one of my main employers looks as thought they may have gone to the wall by then :( but I might just buy a little Fiat Panda 4x4 to save money

Amanda

Saw your old post . I also love Lindisfarne . Indeed was in the same class as Alan Hull at school shows how old I am .

However just to say. In the twilight of my years have ordered a BMW 335D Msport Xdrive. good part ex and 17.3 per cent discount. 3.9 per cent interest rate.

313 bhp 0-62 in 4.8 secs and 40-45 mpg possible.

can't say how much I'm looking forward to it- hope one day you can get a similar deal!

Amanda

Saw your old post . I also love Lindisfarne . Indeed was in the same class as Alan Hull at school shows how old I am .

However just to say. In the twilight of my years have ordered a BMW 335D Msport Xdrive. good part ex and 17.3 per cent discount. 3.9 per cent interest rate.

313 bhp 0-62 in 4.8 secs and 40-45 mpg possible.

can't say how much I'm looking forward to it- hope one day you can get a similar deal!

Funnily enough I have just been looking up the 335D MSport Xdrive and found a few brokers showing around £8K discount An extra 50+bhps over my current car would be nice (although I think my MB has about the same peak torks thingie) I used to have a 123D, so I know how good the twin turbo BMWs engines are. I'm still at least a year away from swapping and I still don't know how things will be for me with work changing massively ((potentially I am about to lose around 40% of my income). Still it's something to aim for

 

ps I'm very impressed with you knowing Alan Hull at school. He is a musical God

Edited 16 February, 201412 yr by Lady Elanore

Funnily enough I have just been looking up the 335D MSport Xdrive and found a few brokers showing around £8K discount An extra 50+bhps over my current car would be nice (although I think my MB has about the same peak torks thingie) I used to have a 123D, so I know how good the twin turbo BMWs engines are. I'm still at least a year away from swapping and I still don't know how things will be for me with work changing massively ((potentially I am about to lose around 40% of my income). Still it's something to aim for

 

ps I'm very impressed with you knowing Alan Hull at school. He is a musical God

If you ever want to pusue this deal Amanda - strongly suggest you access BMW's F30post and look for UK forum. Lots of advice and experience from people getting up to £10k off with main dealers. I got £7.5k off a rather underspecced 335D. There is a dealer on there (TRL) who is also a member who is quite willing to put himself out to get a deal in any part of UK on request for Forum members.

 

PS Alan was a one off - always singing in class - never really took to schoolwork I think! A rather odd fact is that  when Alan and I were in the 1st form our dinner monitor was  one Bruce Cripps who remorphed as Bruce Welch and became one of the Shadows. Frankly I much preferred Alan  musically to Bruce whose public presence is quite at odds with the conceited, unkind **** we saw at dinner times.

Edited 16 February, 201412 yr by Tom Tallon

The North East always was a hotbed of talent

 

As for the BMW, if I am in a position to keep a car of similar value to my current one, then I will vigoursly pursue a max discount. I usually check the brokers, owners forums and manufacturers offers, then go in hard, but polite. I actually used to sell cars for a living many years ago, so I have a reasonable idea of what is achievable. But in any event, if I can't get the deal I want, I am always happy to walk away unharmed

 

Even more jealous of your 335 order. Looking forward to a write up when it comes. I am sure the peeps here on Brisky wont mind, it is a great car after all