Hi guys,

I know there are may different threads but need some advice.

Have a 2009 2.0 140 PD Octy with 132k clicks on the clock.

Several months ago I started to notice a little rough idle, nothing much but always there cold or hot.

More recently I've started to have a good smelly puff of blue smoke on cold start (no smoke during driving) and now it's becoming more difficult to start on the turn of a key.

I've also notice but wonder if it's me that under minimal load while keeping constant speed it feels kinda jerky as if there is a little miss.

I've been thinking of doing an egr clean but wondered if anyone could point me in a sensible direction?

I've thought of the common glow plugs, valve seals but not overly familiar with the pd.

I've got vcds so will try to read up on glow plug status, any other thoughts?

Sounds as if its burning oil. Id get a comprestion test done to check it isnt piston ring failure. If it isnt that id say posbibly egr valve or dpf, but those two most likely come with warning lights.

I get some blue smoke from start up when it's cold, have done for years, yet I never seem to lose any oil. On research it does seem like this appears a 'feature' on some.

EGR might worth a clean if it's never been done.

http://www.briskoda....g/page__hl__egr

http://www.briskoda....p/#entry2688212

Get it scanned through VDCS first though. Could be a glowplug on the way out or the wiring to them etc. Glowplugs are under the rocker cover, so not easy to test them with a multimeter.

You can see through VDCS when the glows are activated and when they switch off also. You will need to look at the label file for the BKD engine to work out the Glow plug status when you find it under Engine Measuring Blocks.

What I did find was that my engine produced a lot of oily vapour/watery substance through the crank case breather, venting this to a catch can helped minimise the blue smoke and rough starting.

Worth a nose..

Thanks Plantman thats sound advice!

Its never given me blue smoke before (Ive owned it for the last year and prior to me it was a company owner with full Skoda history), I'd like to cure the smoke as its a bit of an eyesore and smells to high heaven!!

Ive been thinking of cleaning the EGR and possibly the inlet manifold as Im certain that the dealer wouldnt have cleaned it and I know it hasnt been changed!

I've got VCDS myself but not much experience of the menus, have you scanned your plugs yourself? are there any screen shots of the menu?

Does it give you a value per plug or just the system?

Ill Google the procedure if not and see what results I get....it definitely could be a glow plug as the symptoms (well the blue smoke and starting anyway) are typical!.

I think ill pull off the crank case breather hose and take a peek, I dont seem to get any water content in the oil but its worth a go; did you make a catch or is there a kit?

The only other factor I was thinking was turbo leaking or injector fault but im not an expert on all the symptoms

It would tell you if you have a glow plug down or a wire fault to them, so get that VCDS scan going

Menus look like the below (full manual on the ross tech site)

Select Control Module

http://www.ross-tech...ainscreen01.png

Choose Engine

http://www.ross-tech...m-installed.png

You could check faults under Option 02 and then Click back to Meas Blocks 08

http://www.ross-tech...open-screen.png

Scroll one of the Groups to Item 12 which is Glowplugs

http://www.ross-tech...easblocks01.png

When you see Glow Plugs this is what the different status symbols mean:

012,1,Glow Status,,See Label File

; 00000000 = Waiting for Coolant Temperature

; 00000001 = Waiting for ECO Start Request

; 00010000 = Pre-Glow

; 01010000 = No Pre-Glow

; 10110000 = Post-Glow

; 11000000 = No Post-Glow

; 11110000 = Interim Glow

; 00110000 = Readiness Glowing

; 01110000 = Glow Start

; 10110001 = Waiting for Post-Glow

; 11010000 = No Post-Glow

; 11110001 = Waiting for Interim Glow

; 11111111 = Glowing OFF

As a reference, in this weather my starts with 'Readiness Glowing' as soon as the ignition is on, then for 30 seconds or so when the engine has started I get 'Post Glow'. Then after this it goes to 'Glowing OFF'. YMMV though, depending on temp of the engine and ambient etc.

I made a quick and dirty catch can out of a plastic bottle for a couple of weeks, just as a test to see what was collected.

If I was going to use this long term there are plenty of options out there for proper kits. I don't know any off hand since didn't carry on with the research after my test.

I gather your power is still good though and not much in the way of Blue smoke when you boot it?

I get some blue smoke from start up when it's cold, have done for years, yet I never seem to lose any oil. On research it does seem like this appears a 'feature' on some.

Mine goes through phases of this. It might produce a bit of blue smoke, say, three cold starts in a row, then not do it again for months. It doesn't appear to use any oil either and has no other obvious problems so I've just ignored it.

^{Yep, youre right im onto it!!!}

^{Thanks for the menus, Ill try to scan tonight and report back!}

^{Is there a set sequence from Skoda that the plugs should work in?}

^{I do use some oil but that was well before the blue smoke issue.}

^{I didnt accurately check the level when I purchased the car a year ago but soon after the light popped on so needed 3/4L to 1L to get back to the line.}

^{Its doe an oil change so ill monitor from then.}

Edited 27 March, 201313 yr by o_ptic

It would tell you if you have a glow plug down or a wire fault to them, so get that VCDS scan going

Menus look like the below (full manual on the ross tech site)

Select Control Module

http://www.ross-tech...ainscreen01.png

Choose Engine

http://www.ross-tech...m-installed.png

You could check faults under Option 02 and then Click back to Meas Blocks 08

http://www.ross-tech...open-screen.png

Scroll one of the Groups to Item 12 which is Glowplugs

http://www.ross-tech...easblocks01.png

When you see Glow Plugs this is what the different status symbols mean:

012,1,Glow Status,,See Label File

; 00000000 = Waiting for Coolant Temperature

; 00000001 = Waiting for ECO Start Request

; 00010000 = Pre-Glow

; 01010000 = No Pre-Glow

; 10110000 = Post-Glow

; 11000000 = No Post-Glow

; 11110000 = Interim Glow

; 00110000 = Readiness Glowing

; 01110000 = Glow Start

; 10110001 = Waiting for Post-Glow

; 11010000 = No Post-Glow

; 11110001 = Waiting for Interim Glow

; 11111111 = Glowing OFF

As a reference, in this weather my starts with 'Readiness Glowing' as soon as the ignition is on, then for 30 seconds or so when the engine has started I get 'Post Glow'. Then after this it goes to 'Glowing OFF'. YMMV though, depending on temp of the engine and ambient etc.

I made a quick and dirty catch can out of a plastic bottle for a couple of weeks, just as a test to see what was collected.

If I was going to use this long term there are plenty of options out there for proper kits. I don't know any off hand since didn't carry on with the research after my test.

I gather your power is still good though and not much in the way of Blue smoke when you boot it?

Plantman, I did a scan this evening and need a little advice on the proceedure.

So VCDS only captures the modules with the ignition on? Im struggle to see the warm up as the sequence has already started before i start the software...or am I being a numpty?

There are definately no faults being displayed as a DTC, so really if I can work out how to log the sequence from cold that will help.

Is there a way of actually measuring each glow plug? or at least seeing a value of each?

Anyway some other measurements were very interesting...

I looked at the EGR measurements and at almost every spec value the actual was way out! so at idle the revs constantly fluctuated between 819-840 and the EGR spec was 300 mg/str but I was up at 460 mg/str. Even driving and with 1 eye on the laptop I could see that the actual value was way over (2100rpm in 6th spec i think should have been 850 mg/str actual was 1250 mg/str) now Im no master but this doesnt sound right?

So the next thing I checked was idle stabilization (injection quantity) and im not sure what to make of the values; Cyl #1 -0.4 #2 -0.5, #3 0.6-0.7 and #4 0.25mg/str looking at other threads on the web (http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=340374) large +ve numbers are not good (injector/cam issue).

I dont want to read too much into anything so any help or advice is welcome.

Also forgot to comment about your question regarding power and blue smoke when booting....answer is that power doesnt seem to be reduced and no smoke (not even black puffs) when hard throttling. If anything I would say it sounds a little rougher but that could be related plus its due an oil change.

No you are correct, by the time you have switched on the ignition and VCDS has caught up we may very well be missing some of the initial changes. What were their procedures, out of interest. You do not need to start the car for VCDS to work, just need ignition on. It's worth checking settings at that stage before a start, especially temp sensor settings which soon start changing as the car heats up etc.

If you have no DTC's then I very much doubt you have a glow plug down. I do not know of a way to test them without removing the rocker cover (not a small job) and getting them tested with a multimeter. By the time you have got that far its almost worth throwing in a new set

And also do the injector loom too, since that part has been revised!

There may be a section under Output Tests (03) where you can cycle the glow plugs on and off, but unless you have a DTC I expect they will work fine.

As for EGR, if you let me know what measuring blocks you were checking I will compare with mine, and perhaps someone else with a smooth non smoky car can do the same? After a few mins of idle the EGR shuts down, so it's worth checking the values after blipping the throttle.

As for your Injector values, they are within spec, longs they are not up to +/- 1.xx or 2.88 then its within tolerance. Mine are similar to yours, sometimes as high as 0.70 or so, but I noticed yesterday it had moved from injector 4 to 1. Longs the other values try to balance out the differences it's pretty much normal.

Did you go through the other modules as well checking for errrors? Or better still, did you perform an Autoscan on the main page?

See if you can bang some screenshots up and I can see what values you have. Did you check all of the temperature sensor values? When cold they all read ambient?

I'll need to watch more intently for my next scan

I know when I've used other oem dtc loggers they are self powered so I'm wondering if there a work around so that you can start logging before the key even touches the barrel?

The temp sensor was at 24 dC when I started the car (again need to double check) and interestingly I don't think the temp sensor went above 73 dC even though my gauge was firmly on 90?

Def no dtcs other than some crappy comfort control items (light sensor, rear lock etc) although they all seem to work? That was after a full scan the other day.

I was looking at block 003 for the egr, I did take a log but if you let me know a sequence and time that you can measure yours I'll match at my end, would be good to concur a test method to validate any results.

Yeah mine are identical to yours as I also had a +0.7 on cyl 3 but nothing over that, would be interesting to know what a dealer thinks of the results? We have loads of powertrain guys at work so if I can catch one tomorrow I'll see if the jag/land rover system work in a similar way?

I run vcds on a really old crappy laptop that is a dog slow unit but my laptop in doors is a 64 bit windows system and I'm sure vcds won't work on that.

I also looked at block 002 for the maf I think? I'll see what images I can get.

I didn't realise there is more than 1 temp sensor reading? What block do you check for that?

I'm away for a week from early Sunday so after that I'll go quiet but if I can get anything before that I will as Im keen to sort!

Cheers again

I run vcds on windows7 64 bit without a problem.

Typical symptoms of a failed valve stem oil seal.

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2

Thanks Mike, Ill try the instal on my slightly...well amazingly faster laptop!

VCDS certainly does work on 64 bit windows 7. Works with both beta and release versions no problem.

What you're getting confused with is that a 64 bit windows 7 system won't allow you to run ELSAWIN or ETKA software. This is why I recently changed to a 32 bit windows 7 operating system when I had to reinstall everything on my laptop, so everything now runs in windows 7 rather than me having to have a dual boot XP and 64 bit 7 as previous.

Mike

I just use the virtual XP mode under windows 7 to run etka

stem oil seal failure..........

Regards

stem oil seal failure..........

Regards

agreed and already said...

Sent from my LT26i using Tapatalk 2

stem oil seal failure..........

Regards

2 causes of smoke on starting, leaking injectors allowing a little diesel to drip in when standing or oil stem failure, I had it on a 1.9 & it was valve stem although the car always ran well once the smoke had cleared so dosent account for the rough running. I have also heard talk of tired oil pumps not giving sufficent pressure on start up to operate the hydraulic tappets, we tried that on my old car at 165,000 before taking the head off & it made no difference but your apparent rough running makes me think its more than just stem sealss Those are the thoughts of a non techy , just experience

2 causes of smoke on starting, leaking injectors allowing a little diesel to drip in when standing or oil stem failure, I had it on a 1.9 & it was valve stem although the car always ran well once the smoke had cleared so dosent account for the rough running. I have also heard talk of tired oil pumps not giving sufficent pressure on start up to operate the hydraulic tappets, we tried that on my old car at 165,000 before taking the head off & it made no difference but your apparent rough running makes me think its more than just stem sealss Those are the thoughts of a non techy , just experience

Thanks stuart_j some food for thought there!

I think I need to treat the rough idle separately from the starting smoke....tant said started the car twice on Saturday and once yesterday from cold and no smoke at all? Slight uneven idle but nothing worse or less than normal. When I say rough idle you cannot hear the roughness from outside it's only when you hold the stealing wheel!

Im on holiday at the moment but will investigate when I get back.

It's due a cam belt in 30k so any major work can be combined! I'll keep you posted but any other thoughts would be welcomed.

Sorry guys been snowed under at work and the family!!

Anyway a slight update, since we have been seeing better...or should I dare say warmer weather the blue puff has ceased!

Not even a slight puff morning noon or night!

I'm going for glow plug but could be wrong!

The plan is to de-coke the egr and shudder valve over the next few weeks and see if I can reduce the idle roughness which also seems to be less violent?