was told by dealer after we attended launch at goodwood estate is first to be released and hatch due january

I think the likes of the M135i and that new AMG should be in a Hyper Hatch category. Big money and bigger power. Golf GTI with that performance pack is a hot hatch as is everything to about 160bhp. That and under I'd consider warm. People argued the Fabia vRS isn't a hot hatch but it's 180bhp, quite small and light enough to have fun in while remaining practical. The Octavia is a bit big now so it's borderline. Maybe if some are saying the benchmark for power has moved on they maybe size too. Cars aren't getting smaller which is a shame but you can see why the Octavia is as big as it is. It's another plus point on it's rivals. 

Er the same way the Octavia is? It has a hatch and is fairly hot at 240bhp & near 300bhp models...

Granted the boot isn't as big at 520litres but with the 3 folding seats in the back and an automatic hatch opening option, more cabin space and rwd, I'd say it was hotter and more practical than the Octavia or am I missing something.

You do know they do a 3 series hatch back now?

 

By loose definition its a hatch and slightly hot. Not really a hot hatch though is it. Just doesn't fit the niche.

 

 

Hot hatch is in my opinion, relatively cheap(performance car for the masses), fun(very subjective), decent handling, not necessarily "that" fast.

 

If you asked people to name some hot hatches I seriously doubt anyone is going to say an Octavia or a 3 series.

Edited 13 July, 201312 yr by Chronicbint

Its definitely a hot hatch, its in the same class as the rest, its just at the lower end of the performance scale, the same as an FR/GTI/ST/VXR its just more of a compromise for those of us with families! what must also be remembered is, as well as the lower performance its also significantly lower priced.

mines wasnt "hot" enough for me standard, Ive made a few changes and I bet I could make any of the listed hot hatches blush now, and I have still spent a lot less...

By loose definition its a hatch and slightly hot. Not really a hot hatch though is it. Just doesn't fit the niche.

Hot hatch is in my opinion, relatively cheap(performance car for the masses), fun(very subjective), decent handling, not necessarily "that" fast.

If you asked people to name some hot hatches I seriously doubt anyone is going to say an Octavia or a 3 series.

We agree then that the Octavia isn't a hot hatch. I would say a hot hatch really has to based on a smaller platform, the Golf is getting too big in dimensions really.

Fiesta ST size is as close as you can get to old school hot hatch.

I would say a hot hatch really has to based on a smaller platform

That's what I was trying to say, and I'd call things like the M135i more of a

junior GT car due to their outright power.

The Golf is actually smaller now than the older generation...

Hilarious watching most of you defend a huge car that has a luke warm engine and a hatchback....

 

 

£1,000 more expensive than a focus and 20hp down...

 

Good value that lol. 

I'm sorry, have you seen the look of said Ford (inside and out)? I couldn't live with a dash looking like that even if I was paid to do it.  

Still run rings around the Octavia anyday. 

 

Quite fancy the ST Estate my self. 

So the Porsche 928 or even more recently Panamera is a hot Hatch then?

What about the Ferrari FF?

I'd say the owners of the above cars would be insulted if you were to refer

to their GT cars as hot hatches...

 

Ferrarri FF owner -  'Well,I've worked hard and spent 230k on a top of the line

GT car. I've never been happier, to see the fruits of my labours like this is a dream  

come true...'

 

Octavia owner - 'Nice hot hatch mate'

 

Ferrari FF owner - 'Four cough!'

Stupid comment. Any one even remotely interested in cars would realise that you are talking supercars here with any Ferrari, and the Porsche Panamera is a luxury car, and the fairly useless hybrid Panamera is not even quick.

Hatchback isn't size limited, it's a model shape and access so u can get small, medium and large

With most family cars being 11-14sec to 60 I personally thing warm hatches to be around 8-9sec hot to be 6-8sec and hyper to be 4-6sec

Stupid comment. Any one even remotely interested in cars would realise that you are talking supercars here with any Ferrari, and the Porsche Panamera is a luxury car, and the fairly useless hybrid Panamera is not even quick.

Do they not have a hatchback then? It's an extreme example but the point still stands that

they are as much hatchbacks as the Octavia is. Yet you would never deem to call them a

hot hatch. So you have proved my stupid comment by agreeing with it. Stupid! 

As for the article that I linked to....

We agree then that the Octavia isn't a hot hatch. I would say a hot hatch really has to based on a smaller platform, the Golf is getting too big in dimensions really.

Fiesta ST size is as close as you can get to old school hot hatch.

All cars are getting bigger. Look at say the latest BMW 3 series which is now larger than a 5 series produced 10 years ago. At Festival of Speed yesterday were a couple of Lancia Delta Integrales, I had one back in 1989, then it was the ultimate hot hatch, 185 bhp with a highly sophisticated 4 wheel drive system. Nothing could keep up with it on a twisty road, not even a Ferrari - a friend had a 328 GTB and it stood no chance against my humble Delta! They looked really diminutive alongside a modern Golf!

Maybe "hot hatch" should be renamed "Really quite nippy small car with a wide opening to a luggage space the size of your missus' handbag because we all know a car with a bigger loading space is just a saloon in disguise really isn't it?"

Do we? I think that's just an opinion!

Saloons and large hatchbacks are not the same

Maybe "hot hatch" should be renamed "Really quite nippy small car with a wide opening to a luggage space the size of your missus' handbag because we all know a car with a bigger loading space is just a saloon in disguise really isn't it?"

Do we? I think that's just an opinion!

 

 

It was tongue in cheek, I certainly don't think that myself but it does seem to be the prevailing opinion. There's a really weird cultural preconception about hatchbacks in this country, people immediately think small eurobox when you say hatchback but then they also hold on to the "it's always the more practical option" opinion too. Bizarre.

 

When I picked up my Rapid and drove it back to work someone who works in the same building as me asked me why I didn't buy something like a Fiesta because hatches are more practical than saloons, gave me a good laugh that did

So was mine mate!

Only reason in recent years I found saloons less practical was fitting buggys or prams in the boot. Hatch was miles better

There hasn't been a 'hot hatch' since the days of the 205 GTi, Mk2 Golf GTi and their ilk. On a recent visit to my local VW dealership to pick up some parts for my Golf a salesman clocked me and directed towards a Mk6 GTi. 'What do you think?' was the question. 'Overpriced lardars3' was the answer. He seemed a bit dispondent but to me the whole paradigm of the hot hatch was lost in the mid/ late 90s. Raw, light and fast. Not loaded to the gunwales with comfort kit and corpulence, sound proofing and tactillity. I've driven a mk3 16v and it felt like I was being hurdled down the road on the back of a hippo. A mk4 1.8t is nice but it feels as heavy as it is. Not bothered with anything newer.

£37k for a new Golf GTI? Don't think so. I don't want climate control, I don't want electric seats or rake adjust, multi CD or lane departure system. I want feeling, pace, communication and a car that makes me grin whether i'm doing 10 or a tonne. Plus its no sort of evolution when the latest in the line carries an extra 100bhp but is scarcely quicker than something 24 years old.

So in summary no car deserves the hot hatch moniker any more. The likes of the M135 (something that looks like a forgotten Disney drawing) show themselves for what they are. A big fat engine to cart around a big fat whale. For further analogy compare the Mini Cooper of 1995 and 1999. 

 

 

 Mind you I am still very much interested in the new vRS. We've no longer the requirement for a large estate car and this (especially for the price) could fit the bill 

Edited 13 July, 201312 yr by sparks03

I don't want climate control, I don't want electric seats or rake adjust, multi CD or lane departure system. I want feeling, pace, communication and a car that makes me grin whether i'm doing 10 or a tonne.

 

Ariel Atom?

So was mine mate!

Only reason in recent years I found saloons less practical was fitting buggys or prams in the boot. Hatch was miles better

 

The saloons fall down when you're fitting things with an awkward shape in them, like buggys/prams. My dad had a Rover 800 saloon for a few years, aside from the fact it had the usual build quality / random electrical faults of Rovers from the time, it was a very nice car and we never found any issues loading it up, was a very good Ikea delivery machine in particular.

Ariel Atom?

I would NEVER get that passed the gaffer

We agree then that the Octavia isn't a hot hatch. I would say a hot hatch really has to based on a smaller platform, the Golf is getting too big in dimensions really.

Fiesta ST size is as close as you can get to old school hot hatch.

So Focus St, VXR Astra, Mazda 3 MPS, Megane RS etc etc, all dont count as hot hatches in your book?  :think: whilst I understand what you are saying with regards to size, all cars have increased in size in all classes and things have moved on, so thats why the "Hot Hatch" catergory covers a slightly wider range of cars, there are IMO "Small Hot Hatches" eg Fiesta ST, Clio RS and "Large Hot Hatches" eg Octavia VRS, Focus ST.

No I agree they are hot hatches but they ain't a pug 205, Renault 5GT or Golf mk1 GTi.

They are just too heavy and too fast for UK roads.

I still think the nearest Hot hatch to old school hot hatches has got to be the Clio RS (last model n/a 200) and the new Fiesta ST and pug 208GTi.

All the larger hot hatches are for the older generation like myself who the car companies want to keep as a customer by offering the larger cars as a hot hatch.

Remember when the mk5 Golf GTi was launched under much praise as bringing back the hot hatch GTi badge to VW, what a load of bull.... Drive a mk1 or mk2 and you can FEEL them drive, the mk5 was better than a mk4 granted but it ain't no 205 GTi, no matter what you read in whatcar, Autocar etc about how ell it handles. It certainly doesn't handle throttle inputs 20% aswell as a 205 GTi does, like comparing a butter knife with a chef's sharpest knife.

The only hot thing with 90% of hot hatches (Renault exculded - except new rs Clio) is the way they go and grip, but feel, adjustability on the edge with throttle and steering has not moved on, if anything its gone backwards.

Edited 13 July, 201312 yr by vrs777