Sawtoothing

[Aspman]

I am sure it is a tyre make issue much more than geometry, use good tyres (Michelins) and do not get the problem.

 

I'm not even convinced it's a good vs bad tyre thing. I think some patterns just don't agree with the car.

 

Front sawtoothing is definitely rarer. I guess if you get that you do a lot of motorway work otherwise the movement of the wheels would cancel it out.

[Phildo]

Also a tire pressure thing. Especially if people are getting wear on inside AND outside of the tire. That's just a low pressure thing surely?

[KBPhoto]

Front sawtoothing is definitely rarer. I guess if you get that you do a lot of motorway work otherwise the movement of the wheels would cancel it out.

I don't do that much motorway miles, I just drive sensibly (most of the time) and I have front wheels sawtoothed (a bit).

Also a tire pressure thing. Especially if people are getting wear on inside AND outside of the tire. That's just a low pressure thing surely?

I check pressures regularly (not every week I grant) and have sawtoothing on both rears inside and out but have pretty even wear across the face of the tyres.

[Aspman]

Also a tire pressure thing. Especially if people are getting wear on inside AND outside of the tire. That's just a low pressure thing surely?

 

It's further round the shoulder of the tyre than you'd see with low pressure. when you see sawtoothing you think (well I did) How the F could that happen? It doesn't look possible without the wheel moving loads.

[2Kittys]

I'm on my 2nd Vrs and never had sawtoothing with either my brothers Vrs is the same no issues with sawtoothing. Some dealers don't have Alignment Equipment and send out to a third party. I kept my last Vrs for 5 years with no issues like that, current vrs is 2 years old again with no sawtoothing issues

Just out of interest, what tyres were they on?

[FatblokeVRS]

Does anyone have the current geometry settings?

Cheers

Dave

[allan1888]

First Vrs was on factory dunlops till i felt they needed replaced then it had Goodyear eagle F1's ,then falken 912's and before I traded it it had brand new Michelin PS3's all round all worn perfectly with no sawtoothing I only replaced the dunlops and falken's due to me not being happy with the level of grip from them. My Current Vrs had conti sport contact 2 from factory I replaced the front 2 when worn put my rears on the front and put 2 eagle F1 assymetric 2's on the rear. Then damaged one of my fronts on a pothole and the tyre had a bulge in the sidewall so both fronts got replaced with another 2 eagle F1 assymetric 2's. But all tyres worn perfectly with no sawtoothing alignment was checked and adjusted after every tyre change.

[Aspman]

Does anyone have the current geometry settings?

Cheers

Dave

 

If you go somewhere with the Hunter setup they are apparently are kept up to date.

[dakar]

I too am suffering this problem with my vrs,put 4X falken 452s on the car 6 months ago,4k later and the tyres are half way too being cream crackered .......Really dont rate these mk2 octavias,too much stuff going wrong them for me :(

[nickguzzi]

I too am suffering this problem with my vrs,put 4X falken 452s on the car 6 months ago,4k later and the tyres are half way too being cream crackered .......Really dont rate these mk2 octavias,too much stuff going wrong them for me :(

Presumably without an alignment at the same time. 

If you have 1/2 worn the tyres in 4000 miles, either you drive on a track or your alignment is some way out. 

Loads of threads on here about the benefit of getting it done.  Much better tyre life being one, much better vehicle dynamics being another.

[MaZvRSTSI]

I only noticed one of my front tyres was warn slightly on the inside so I spent 50 quid yesterday at Malvern Tyres in cheltenham and had all 4 tracking done. Will report back on the results in the a months or 2. Was recommend by a friend to go to them.....was contemplating of going to Hereford but weighed up the cost of getting there and so forth....

[bulls20042002]

I only noticed one of my front tyres was warn slightly on the inside so I spent 50 quid yesterday at Malvern Tyres in cheltenham and had all 4 tracking done. Will report back on the results in the a months or 2. Was recommend by a friend to go to them.....was contemplating of going to Hereford but weighed up the cost of getting there and so forth....

Please can somone help,

I didn't think just getting 4wheel alignment (tracking) was the same as getting the geometry settings adjusted?

I was under the impression getting them all tracked wouldnt help with sawtoothing :-?

Edited 1 September, 2013 by bulls20042002

[Twisty]

I did some google searching because I didn't know what Sawtoothing was and a lot of results indicated that Dunlop SportMaxx tyres are particularly prone to this problem.

[dakar]

Presumably without an alignment at the same time. 

If you have 1/2 worn the tyres in 4000 miles, either you drive on a track or your alignment is some way out. 

Loads of threads on here about the benefit of getting it done.  Much better tyre life being one, much better vehicle dynamics being another.

Booking it in at my mates tomoz so hopefully will sort problem,funnily it had 17s on when i bought it with budget tyres and at half worn they were fine

[nickguzzi]

I did some google searching because I didn't know what Sawtoothing was and a lot of results indicated that Dunlop SportMaxx tyres are particularly prone to this problem.

The Dunlops are pretty dire.  The ones on the rear of mine when I got it sounded like a chain saw.  Changed by the supplying dealer. 

The Bridgestones which were moved to the back, were nearly as bad.  These were changed to Hankooks evo V12 to match the dealer fitted ones, so far 34,000 miles.  They are just starting to be noisy, and just about ready to be replaced.

17x225x45 btw.

 

 

Please can somone help,

I didn't think just getting 4wheel alignment (tracking) was the same as getting the geometry settings adjusted?

I was under the impression getting them all tracked wouldnt help with sawtoothing :-?

 

 

You write "4wheel alignment" then bracket tracking as if that is the same.  Tracking has come to mean adjusting the toe in/out, using fairly crude measuring equipment.  Usually a track rod end is wound in or out, so the gauge gives the right numbers.  Horrendous, so easy to do incorrectly.  So it often is.  Its barely useful, and often can be dangerously so.

4 wheel alignment on the other hand will use a correctly set whole body lift.  The wheels are on swivel plates so can move independantly, the wheels are fitted with mirrors and lasers.  The various angles which are critical to the vehicle dynamics are measured and analysed by the system computer.  This should be connected to the central database, so the latest specs can be used.

There are quite a few different systems, which obviously in order not to infringe each others patents, works slightly differently.  The Hunter jig is fairly common and lots of people know the name, but it is not the only one, or necessarily more reliable or accurate. 

More important to achieving a first class outcome is the experience and care of the operator.  

Once done correctly your vehicle will likely be transformed.  Even if set up right at the factory, not a given, even if correctly adjusted as part of the PDI, (highly unlikely) using it on the road, general settling and wear and tear, not to mention pot holes, speed humps and the general detritus which festers on our roads will eventually cause changes to the geometry of the car suspension. 

The steering system and suspension systems have certain critical angles.  To within a minute or two of arc.  The pundits talking about race car performance on TV, stress the need for correct "geometry", and they are right.  The relative positions and angles on race cars of the wheels determines both the grip (roadholding) and feel (handling). 

The same is true on a road car.  Camber, castor, KPI and offset, scrub radius, toe - both static and dynamically in turns, will all affect the grip and feel, and for us, the wear rate of the tyres.  At both ends. 

Fortunately for us, not many of those are adjustable, but they can be measured as a check against something being wrong, like worn bushes or bent parts . 

The ones that can be altered have to be done in relation to the vehicle as a whole and each other.  For this you need a proper alignment jig/skilled operator. 

The three dimensional geometry of vehicle suspension is fairly complex, altering the ride height or wheel offset will change the way the wheels articulate in relation to the vehicle/road interface. 

So geometry has come to be, in casual parlance, shorthand for alignment.

 

 

A 4 wheel alignment is becoming the elephant in the room, like brake fluid changes and air con re-gassing.  Necessary, but not in your service book.

 

 

Whether the sawtoothing is caused by incorrect suspension settings, VAG aren't saying.  VAG did issue revised settings, so you can read in that what you will. 

Interweb chat is leaning towards the "problem" is down to tyre design.  And their data is....?

Perhaps in the c.8 years since the introduction of the mk5 chassis (where the problem first became evident in VAGworld), tyre designers have discovered a few tricks. 

[Morley]

Copied from another thread as this thread appears more relevant

 

I have been experiencing similar problems. I have had this car for 2 years when in March this year I took my 2007 petrol vRS in for its MOT. The guy doing the MOT rang me and said I needed two new rear tyres. They were worn through the rubber to expose the steel reinforcing and canvas on the inside edges. The nearside tyre was worse than the offside. So I had 2 new tyres put on the front and the part worn (6mm) tyres from the front put on the rear. I then took the car back to the dealer I had bought the car from. They got the wheel alignment checked/adjusted by a local specialist and put the issue down to pot holes.

 

3 months later I was aware of increased road noise checked the tyres again. There was evidence that the tyres were wearing in the same way. The dealer got revised settings from Skoda and sent it back to have the alignment done again. Confident that the problem was now fixed and I had "caught" it in time and the tyres were still legal, I put up with the road noise.

 

The car went in for service 3/4 weeks ago and the tyre report didn't highlight any problems. On Friday I was aware that the tyre noise was increasing again. When I got home I inspected the tyres only to confirm my worst fears. The nearside rear tyre was still showing 1-2mm in places on the inner edge, but bald in patches and just starting to go through to the carcass. The only option was to replace both rear tyres on Saturday morning.

 

I don't really know what to do next. I am almost at the point of trading the car in for another, but don't want to experience the same issues if I get another Octavia. I guess I need to talk to the dealer again!

 

I bet the tyre fitters and 4 wheel alignment companies love Octavias:-)

[mikey vrs]

I too am suffering this problem with my vrs,put 4X falken 452s on the car 6 months ago,4k later and the tyres are half way too being cream crackered .......Really dont rate these mk2 octavias,too much stuff going wrong them for me :(

You should have had a 4 wheel alignment done after you fitted your lowered/uprated suspension,i had mine done as i had 1 rear tyre wearing on the inside edge & its been fine for the last year & 12k. It must be way out if its worn 4 tyres.  :|

[dakar]

You should have had a 4 wheel alignment done after you fitted your lowered/uprated suspension,i had mine done as i had 1 rear tyre wearing on the inside edge & its been fine for the last year & 12k. It must be way out if its worn 4 tyres.  :|

You should have had a 4 wheel alignment done after you fitted your lowered/uprated suspension,i had mine done as i had 1 rear tyre wearing on the inside edge & its been fine for the last year & 12k. It must be way out if its worn 4 tyres.  :|

Booked in for friday Mikey :-)

[Abarth Moose]

This became evident on the rear of my FL vRS with the original Conti Sport Contact 2s, but I did have them until I'd done more than 50k miles,

 

Sent my missus to get the 4 new tyres I'd ordered (Dunlop SportMaxx RTs) and 4-wheel alignment and it's much better so far.

 

Will see how many miles it is before it comes back and I'm not 100% sure on the alignment as there's only one print-out (assuming its the after) and the camber on the n/s rear is showing -1º 55' which I believe is just out of tolerance?

[Aspman]

If it was done on the Hunter rig you get a before and after print out in colour. Green good red bad etc.

[Abarth Moose]

I think it was done on a Supertracker system?

 

It was done at my local F1 Autocentre as they were advertising the Hunter system on their website, but the printout isn't hunter and now their website is advertising the Supertracker system as well. Guess I was just unlucky that they didn't have the Hunter at my local Autocentre.

[MaZvRSTSI]

I have no clue what system they used as the place who did my wheel alignment but to be fare to them, they didn't do a bad job at all.....

Edited 6 September, 2013 by MazVrstfsi

[studmuffin]

I think it was done on a Supertracker system?

It was done at my local F1 Autocentre as they were advertising the Hunter system on their website, but the printout isn't hunter and now their website is advertising the Supertracker system as well. Guess I was just unlucky that they didn't have the Hunter at my local Autocentre.

I had my 4 wheel alignment done on a ' supertracker ' system 12 months ago and it transformed the way my vrs handled. ..

However it did not stop the sawtoothing on the rear tyres as ive just hsd to replace them with Goodyear asymmetric 2's.

Also had to have a new rear o/s suspension arm as they couldn't adjust that wheel to the correct settings as the bolt had seized up so it had to be cut out resulting in a new suspension arm costing £160 + 270 tyres + 49 alignment =

Expensive set of rear tyres !

Edited 6 September, 2013 by studmuffin

[SKODA OCTAVIA]

had the same problem here, i hear so much noise from the rear side , look at the rear wheels and it is sawtoothing, so i must do 4 wheel aligment but must i change the tyres ? goodyear optigrip 205/55/16 summer 

[DGW]

You don't need to change the tyres if you can tolerate the noise.