Mot will not pick up the dpf removal (yet) I think this check will be part of the mot test sooner than later

 

I understand that if this come's in to the MOT it will only be a visual to make sure the DPF filter is in place

 

Nothing to say there has to be anything in it

 

 

Just to add:-

 

I've been a member here for 9+ years and in the last 6 years DPF's have been discussed and this it the first (I think ) where someone has mentions the health risks.

 

Trotts off to Doctors for check up

Like Auric, I've heard about the "badness" of DPFs for a while; mostly how the early ones were sticking plasters on unsuitable engines (like on the PD mentioned earlier) - rather like the early days of petrol cats being thrown on carburettor fed cars that really couldn't make them work properly.  Perception is, therefore, that these exhaust nannies are counter-productive.  Never the "real" reason..

 

In the early days of the petrol cat (slightly different, I know), they lowered fuel economy and it was proven that they took 90-95% of the average journey distance to actually start working (and before that they were worse than a non-cat car).  You can understand the scepticism over the newbie - the DPF for diesels.

 

Early ones were flawed with (PSA HDi for example) a special fluid needed to be injected to do the clean up and when the system failed (which they seemed to do regularly) stupidly high repair bills immediately flag them as "bad".

 

If the improvement in engine technology for diesles (the CR engine) makes these nano-particles (which sound almost asbestos like in terms of lung penetration..), then OK - it becomes an integral part of the CR engine installation; can't have one without the other.

 

There is still the regen issue - and how short journeys will kill them off (too much clog and not enough emptying).  Maybe (hopefully) that will get sorted with improved technology but I daresay the CR engine + DPF isn't quite honed as a technology yet.

 

Diesel tech has had a serious jump in the last 20 years; petrol is now having its day IMHO with petrol engines now giving family sized saloons sub-100g CO2 figures (and better "real world" MPG figures) and catching the diesels up very quickly.

 

All IMHO, of course..

Edited 12 September, 201312 yr by philhoward

Auric, the medics and the engineers have known about the nano/particulate issues for years and it's been fully discussed in all the mags, online, in the news, on top gear, years ago etc etc. The medics were on News at 10 just a few weeks ago with this very story about the nano particulate matter and other fumes from cars killing off 50,000 people a year in the UK and hundreds of thousands more in 'Urop'.To counter this, dpf's were introduced many years ago. But they were not as effective as todays units. the issue is not new and it's been well discussed but ignored by many. Amazingly some people in ever growing numbers want to flout the law, most through ignorance I like to think! There is extra legislation planned to deal with people that do this, and it's about time. It is a dangerous practice and for little if any gain and all at the expense of the rest of us. Very anti social. Sorry to be a kill joy! 

 

Phil, you are right. Much to my annoyance (I'm a diesel head lol) the petrol engine is going to be pretty much supreme again for some while I suspect. I've even gone petrol myself for the time being. Would quite like an Octavia Estate with the new 140ps 1.4TSI engine. It's amazing. On the point you make about the nano's being asbestos like, you are not far from the truth on that. Once inside you, 90% of them stay inside you and cannot be self cleaned out of you by the lungs. They can even enter the bloodstream in small numbers from one report I have read. 

 

But don't take my word for any of this, look it up!

Edited 12 September, 201312 yr by Estate Man

Under load a CR engine does emit more nano particulates than just being 'rowed' on the throttle. But even so, the exhaust analyser cannot see the nano's on the MOT anyway.

Sorry, what is 'rowing'?

My only knowledge of that term involves the university boat race

If you see a normal diesel car on a dyno, when not being revved hard, it will appear quite clean, it's only when it is revved hard that it might kick out an almighty soot cloud

I'm still struggling to come to terms with how a CR DPF car would potentially become a weapon of mass destruction in town if the DPF were removed

"  Update " 

 

 

Just returned from Doctors, all is fine     :yes:

At MOT, to get a diesel car to emit smoke that you can see, the engineer will follow a predetermined rev pattern to make the engine rev hard to high revs, then drop to low revs, then rev to high revs, and back down again several times in quick succession. This is called 'rowing' the throttle. The test is so severe it can snap a worn cambelt that hasn't been replaced on time. Another good reason to make sure it has been done before going for MOT.

 

Well done Auric...glad you are ok! Me too!

At MOT, to get a diesel car to emit smoke that you can see, the engineer will follow a predetermined rev pattern to make the engine rev hard to high revs, then drop to low revs, then rev to high revs, and back down again several times in quick succession. This is called 'rowing' the throttle. The test is so severe it can snap a worn cambelt that hasn't been replaced on time. Another good reason to make sure it has been done before going for MOT.

Not that dissimilar to a dyno run then?

From a layman's point of view, I'd have thought the engine would be under much more load in those few seconds than an engine in a car plodding through town at much lower revs

I'm still struggling to come to terms with how a CR DPF car would potentially become a weapon of mass destruction in town if the DPF were removed

Go back a few years to the Bush era and you my lad would have been on the WMD hot list ! Then just wait for the cruise missles to come raining down !!!

Go back a few years to the Bush era and you my lad would have been on the WMD hot list ! Then just wait for the cruise missles to come raining down !!!

 

I like living dangerously, that's why they call me.....

 

Hudson 1,

Any news yet on who is near you or prices for a Map & a DPF removal?

 

Did you not previously mention before getting the car, a neighbour that did Re-maps?

 

george

Not that dissimilar to a dyno run then?

From a layman's point of view, I'd have thought the engine would be under much more load in those few seconds than an engine in a car plodding through town at much lower revs

 

No, not the same as a dyno run. An engine being revved hard and rowed on the throttle, but not being driven is under a different sort of load to an engine being driven. A car being driven experiences higher combustion pressures and heat and produces more particulate matter at the nano level. The higher the combustion pressure the more particulate matter. An unloaded but high revving engine won't produce much in the way of nano particulates. The smoke test on the MOT is just that. It checks for general fuelling faults/issues that can cause visible smoke (black or white/grey smoke which indicates over or under fuelling) and is checking to see if the engine is burning oil (which creates blue smoke). Beyond a certain level it can fail the MOT dependant upon the mileage the engine has covered, but an older engine is allowed to make a bit more smoke before being failed. 

Edited 13 September, 201312 yr by Estate Man

Hudson 1,

Any news yet on who is near you or prices for a Map & a DPF removal?

 

Did you not previously mention before getting the car, a neighbour that did Re-maps?

 

george

Hi,

Yep, i have asked him for a price only yesterday and waiting for him to get back to me, i will leave the DPF just incase the ' Euro-Lot' stick their fingers in the pie and then it would be a nightmare to replace the DPF i had thrown away a year before ! I will let you know what the price is.

If you're not having issues with your DPF i would not go to the trouble of having it removed.

Essentially they are a wear and tear item, yes it will die eventually but they should be good for a minimum of 120-140k miles, to replace I am sure price wise it doesnt have to be that scary as it doesnt need to be done at a main dealers.

Also its also almost a certainty that to delete an emmissions control device will become illegal (and MOT failure almost certainly) in the not too distant future.

You dont need it removed to have a remap, also bear in mind as soon as its gone, your car will smoke and depending on the quality of the map you'll probably get some protest from people following you :-) one of the beauties of DPFs is no smog.

I have the worst combo, a PD with DPF and I have over 105,000 miles on it and recently had the car scanned and the DPF showed 5% full. I ain't touching it until I have to. It seems they can last a long time and if not, you're doing it wrong

I have the worst combo, a PD with DPF and I have over 105,000 miles on it and recently had the car scanned and the DPF showed 5% full. I ain't touching it until I have to. It seems they can last a long time and if not, you're doing it wrong

Agree, i did look at somem of the PD cars with DPF but did not want this combo, my DPF is ok at the moment and the car has only done 10,000miles. I will let you all know how the re-map went and the figures etc.

I have a DPF on my second car Opel-Meriva (Vauxhall) 1,3 CDTI which I bought in March, 2006, and which has gone 119 K miles. Cleaning of the DPF happens too frequently. As it is harmful to stop this process, you need to wait when the process ends and only then can go away. I don't like it. Therefore when choosing my new Skoda-Fabia I went for petrol engine 1,2 HTP which is comparatively simple and should be reliable.

Here in Denmark you can get a 1.6 TDI remapped to 140 - 145 BHP and +300NM including a dyno run before and after for £675. It´s a custom file, and not just a stupid box, which ruins the engine. So, if you ever plan to do your holiday over here, I can advise a few places, where they can perfom the operation (which by the way leaves the DPF on).

Our remap with the DPF on gives ~130bhp on our dyno (which usually reads lower than most) and costs £471 with dyno time, saves a trip to Denmark (although Mansfield is still a trek for some people)

Proving you don't need to remove the dpf to get more power! Yeah, old thread I know, it just came up in my comments box...lol.