I have an APR stage 2+ map on my Octavia and have been very happy with it.

On my way to a trackday this morning, the check engine light started flashing and I lost throttle operation.

After 3 hours or so of waiting for RAC patrol then recovery, the car was recovered and with the most friendly VW specialist in Christendom.

After limited conversation with APR (after being misinformed the first time and told it was a hardware issue), it appears that I have somehow activated the anti theft mode whilst the car is in motion and cruise control is in use. I've repeatedly followed the instructions and can't deactivate it so the car is now immobile. I'm going back to stock for the time being as, having been put in that position, I lost faith in a matter of seconds. I've also lost my trackday fee and forked out another £15 to get home on the train.

They're definitely good maps but be very aware of using these without the security lockout that neither APR nor the dealer who did the first map informed made clear to me to use.

This happened to a friendof mine, his Cruise Control stalk started to play up big style soon after, before he replaced it for the fault never to re-occur

It might sound a bit knee jerk, but the map is coming off.

If the stalk has failed, it's absurd that should leave the car unusable because it's activated anti theft and can't be turned off.

My map doesn't have 95RON or Valet modes and I never use stock mode. I've never used the fault code reset or throttle body alignment as I have VCDS, so whilst the quality of the 98RON map is very good, I've personally lost faith for my own reasons and, personally, there is no longer an advantage to running this software over another tuner's.

I was going to go with APR for my FL S4 after they were the first to advertise an OBD port tune for it. I didnt want to open up the ECU so seemed ideal.

After many phone calls to their main distributor I was told it was unlikely to work through through the OBD and if it failed to load once started it would have to be completed via opening it up, even if I just wanted to keep it stock.

I questioned APR's marketing blurb which clearly states it was possible (they were pushing it hard as it was a half screen banner on their home page). I was told 'they say many things but we are usually the ones that have to do it.'

Enough to put me off, and went to Revo. Really glad I did. Superb map, smooth progressive power, not like aggressive maps you hear Revo apparantly do. Easily switched between 95 / 98 / stock using their SPS

This happened to a friendof mine, his Cruise Control stalk started to play up big style soon after, before he replaced it for the fault never to re-occur

 

My cruise stalk has been checked with VCDS (both for fault codes and for output using measuring blocks or whatever test you can do to register the switch on/off) and it appears to be in full working order.

The code couldn't be entered and I believe my excellent tech man and APR had discussed between them that it was likely the map file was corrupt. My most recent communication with APR has gone unanswered so far so for now, I'm going to go with the version of events that I have been given and say that as far as I have been told, the APR map is the issue.

 

As said before the map has been great - the power delivery is fantastic and totally transforms the car but this issue has basically completely ruined it for me as I missed the first ever track day I'd booked, I'm out of pocket (getting on for 200 quid now in lost track day, investigatory labour and train fares) and haven't had the use of the car for ten days. I guess I'm lucky insofar as the corrupt file doesn't appear to have done any lasting damage to the ECU or that would have spelled trouble.

The Internet told me that it is possible to create maps which will allow 10 engine starts after which the ECU locks out if the map is not updated.  No idea if this is founded, but on the ME7 Bosch ECU, there is an easy way to do this... so just wondering if this is worth investigating?

 

Did you get the ECU flashed?  Or are you going to fit a defeated ECU with stock map?  Have you contacted R-tech to see if they can write you a map?

Is that 10 engine starts from when the car was flashed? That can't have happened to mine as it was flashed to stage 2+ back in February.

The car got going again but only because it was reflashed with a stock map.

To say I was annoyed is an understatement.

Just to update this, the information I was given after diagnosis was that the map file was corrupt which is (seems to be) the cause of the throttle going.

I subsequently wrote to APR, asking them what they thought and, at least a week later, wrote back and asked if they wanted to contradict the suggestion that the file was corrupt. As I have not had a response back, I can only assume APR are not going to say the file was corrupt and have washed their hands of me as a customer.

By now I've had the hybrid turbo fitted and the car mapped by R Tech (which I am incidentally very happy with) - this was already planned before the map gave up and would have been done anyway.

I was previously a very happy APR customer and I'd still recommend a generic APR stage 1 from a product perspective but can no longer recommend their customer service.

I'm pretty disappointed that i) if I was still waiting for a response from APR, the car could still be off the road*, ii) I've suffered a loss as a direct result of the map giving up* - I'm not really even expecting anything back but some kind of explanation would be really helpful.

*I don't know the detail of the conversation between the tech and APR and, as APR now won't communicate with me (logically if they would or were prepared to then I'd have had a reply to the three emails I've sent), then I think it's only fair to assume their product was the problem.

To be told by APR that I had enabled anti theft, when it's clear I haven't, and have not had so much as an apology is pretty poor IMO.

It's also clear that the stalk was not the issue as I've not swapped that out either and it continues to function as it should.

Just posting my experience and something to consider if you're thinking of a map.

Sorry to hear this. Real shame when big companies like that let you down.

Also, I have been reliably informed they run a huge boost surplus 

It would seem the return of APR to the UK was all hot air and bull.

 

I had their map on my car, one of the first, but when they removed JKM as one of their dealers I changed to a competitors map that is supported by my tuner of choice.

 

Their workshop in MK is also the land of broken cars that have either been worked on or are in the process of being fixed or worked on.

 

Poor show and your experience just backs that up. 

Although, I'm sure there are lots of people on here who are happy with their maps?

I'm sure there are, my comments are more directly related to the customer service than the software.

I was very happy, in fact delighted, with my map and would have probably continued to be had APR been in the slightest bit bothered. As it stands I have still had no recent communication from APR since my last emails to them.

I have an APR stage 2+ map on my Octavia and have been very happy with it.

On my way to a trackday this morning, the check engine light started flashing and I lost throttle operation.

After 3 hours or so of waiting for RAC patrol then recovery, the car was recovered and with the most friendly VW specialist in Christendom.

After limited conversation with APR (after being misinformed the first time and told it was a hardware issue), it appears that I have somehow activated the anti theft mode whilst the car is in motion and cruise control is in use. I've repeatedly followed the instructions and can't deactivate it so the car is now immobile. I'm going back to stock for the time being as, having been put in that position, I lost faith in a matter of seconds. I've also lost my trackday fee and forked out another £15 to get home on the train.

They're definitely good maps but be very aware of using these without the security lockout that neither APR nor the dealer who did the first map informed made clear to me to use.

John, I sympathise with your problem.

I think the 'software recalibration expertise' has changed since your car was re-calibrated.

 

Best wishes,

 

John

Edited 23 November, 201312 yr by john_y

John, I'd first like to apologize for the outcome of this fiasco--there are a few things that I wish had happened differently, but here we are. I figure it's time to put my sponsorship money to use and offer as much information I can to gain perspective, and if you haven't received any of my emails then the information below is what I've been trying to convey to you since late October.

 

To date, I've sent you four emails, answered several facebook messages outside of business hours, and even offered to get you VIP access track day at Silverstone for your missed track day, but somehow "we can't be bothered." It's a shame to read that.

 

The facts as explained in my email and your previous posts: You likely activated anti-theft. When your car was flashed, I walked you through the different features and handed you a very detailed users manual with your security code in it. I don't blame you for this and am sorry that you were left stranded that day and that this information may have been forgotten or overlooked. I wish I had been there to take the call, but I wasn't.

 

The biggest problem with this situation was the fact that you expected resolution from a Revo dealer. Alex at AKS is a great technician, but he didn't have the tools or the APR-knowhow to fix this quickly. It didn't seem like he had much motivation either as I reached out twice to him for updates and he didn't offer very technical feedback to work with.

 

I also offered you direct contact details for Keith who is in the UK (I'm not). Were you able to speak with him?

 

My cruise stalk has been checked with VCDS (both for fault codes and for output using measuring blocks or whatever test you can do to register the switch on/off) and it appears to be in full working order.

The code couldn't be entered and I believe my excellent tech man and APR had discussed between them that it was likely the map file was corrupt. My most recent communication with APR has gone unanswered so far so for now, I'm going to go with the version of events that I have been given and say that as far as I have been told, the APR map is the issue.

 

Simply put, files don't corrupt, and your ECU would not have activated some sort of immobilisation randomly. I sent Alex your code, and he reported it didn't work, but as a Revo dealer and not an APR dealer, I don't know if he did everything to enter it properly. Really, we needed someone at APR or an APR distributor to get their hands on the car for 15 minutes and all would have been good. 

 

The Internet told me that it is possible to create maps which will allow 10 engine starts after which the ECU locks out if the map is not updated.  No idea if this is founded, but on the ME7 Bosch ECU, there is an easy way to do this... so just wondering if this is worth investigating?

 

This wouldn't apply here; Octavia VRSs run MED17 ECUs.

 

By now I've had the hybrid turbo fitted and the car mapped by R Tech (which I am incidentally very happy with) - this was already planned before the map gave up and would have been done anyway.
I was previously a very happy APR customer and I'd still recommend a generic APR stage 1 from a product perspective but can no longer recommend their customer service.

I'm pretty disappointed that i) if I was still waiting for a response from APR, the car could still be off the road*, ii) I've suffered a loss as a direct result of the map giving up* - I'm not really even expecting anything back but some kind of explanation would be really helpful.

*I don't know the detail of the conversation between the tech and APR and, as APR now won't communicate with me (logically if they would or were prepared to then I'd have had a reply to the three emails I've sent), then I think it's only fair to assume their product was the problem.

To be told by APR that I had enabled anti theft, when it's clear I haven't, and have not had so much as an apology is pretty poor IMO.
It's also clear that the stalk was not the issue as I've not swapped that out either and it continues to function as it should.

Just posting my experience and something to consider if you're thinking of a map.

Glad you're happy with your hybrid turbo and everything now, Nick is a good guy. To review your points i) I've responded several times. I'm boggled as to how all four of my emails have missed your inbox after double and triple checking your email address. Our standard phone number is on the website, and I personally gave you Keith's mobile number. Maybe they were in the missed emails? ii)I've offered compensation for your lost track day by means of another track day.

 

Also, I have been reliably informed they run a huge boost surplus 

This is completely untrue. Do a data log and requested boost will meet actual.

 

It would seem the return of APR to the UK was all hot air and bull.

 

I had their map on my car, one of the first, but when they removed JKM as one of their dealers I changed to a competitors map that is supported by my tuner of choice.

 

Their workshop in MK is also the land of broken cars that have either been worked on or are in the process of being fixed or worked on.

That's one interesting, albeit biased way of looking at this. Fortunately one mishap doesn't represent our return on the whole, and as you've read above hopefully you understand the breadth at which I've tried to assist from afar. Browse Seatcupra.net, TTforum, RS3OC, and mk5GolfGTI forums to see the extent of the forum-only positive response.

 

For those who don't know, our HQ MK is a development centre as well as inventory hub for Europe. There we stored and tested two development TTRSs (which both underwent complete engine builds from other shoppes and tested three versions of our stage 3 kit) and Sy's Fabia VRS for a while. The owners of these cars were completely aware of the circumstances and by now all of the cars are gone, with the TTRS stage 3 kit released and Sy's suffered constantly from OEM 1.4TSI weaknesses and unknowns of the Loba product that we've since discontinued development on. 

 

The rest of the MK garage is full of track cars for the VW Cup that we sponsor, or classic cars owned by Volkswagen Racing employees with whom we share the space.

 

 

I think the 'software recalibration expertise' has changed since your car was re-calibrated.

 

 

Yes, the software recalibration expertise has actually improved since his car was re-calibrated, and as a result you may see the very pleasing numbers and reviews for the 2.5T, 4.0TT, 4.2TFSI and 2.0TFSI all over the internet. I understand the Briskoda community is very tight-knit so if you missed this, then that's completely understandable as none of those engines are applicable here.

 

In the end there were a few wrong turns that lead to this unfortunate outcome for us, but hopefully this information is helpful for everybody.

FWIW, this situation is now completely avoidable moving forward as we've launched our Mobile App which allows users to visually control programmes via their Mobile. http://www.goapr.com/products/mobile.html

That's one interesting, albeit biased way of looking at this. Fortunately one mishap doesn't represent our return on the whole, and as you've read above hopefully you understand the breadth at which I've tried to assist from afar. Browse Seatcupra.net, TTforum, RS3OC, and mk5GolfGTI forums to see the extent of the forum-only positive response.

 

For those who don't know, our HQ MK is a development centre as well as inventory hub for Europe. There we stored and tested two development TTRSs (which both underwent complete engine builds from other shoppes and tested three versions of our stage 3 kit) and Sy's Fabia VRS for a while. The owners of these cars were completely aware of the circumstances and by now all of the cars are gone, with the TTRS stage 3 kit released and Sy's suffered constantly from OEM 1.4TSI weaknesses and unknowns of the Loba product that we've since discontinued development on. 

 

The rest of the MK garage is full of track cars for the VW Cup that we sponsor, or classic cars owned by Volkswagen Racing employees with whom we share the space.

 

Biased? Possibly however as an ex-customer of yours due wholly to your treatment of my tuner of choice I think relevant.

 

I only see your impact on one of the other forums you list so can't comment about the rest but if you think it's going well then good luck with that. 

FWIW, this situation is now completely avoidable moving forward as we've launched our Mobile App which allows users to visually control programmes via their Mobile. http://www.goapr.com/products/mobile.html

It's not just the software switching that's at issue - there are several reports of cars running extremely high boost levels

Odd. Sorry, but this is the first I've heard of this. What is considered extremely high and why haven't these customers reached out? All things aside, J0hn even reported he was happy with the performance of the car.

 

Do you happen to have data logs or any empirical data that supports these reports?

Odd. Sorry, but this is the first I've heard of this. What is considered extremely high and why haven't these customers reached out? All things aside, J0hn even reported he was happy with the performance of the car.

 

Do you happen to have data logs or any empirical data that supports these reports?

Hi, JOhn did quote he was happy but that was quite a while ago - has something changed recently in terms of software recalibration expertise 

I thought I should stick my 2 cents into this as well.

 

J0hn even reported he was happy with the performance of the car.

 

Absolutely, I always said I was happy with the performance, and especially how the car drove, and I still stand by that.

 

John, I'd first like to apologize for the outcome of this fiasco--there are a few things that I wish had happened differently, but here we are. I figure it's time to put my sponsorship money to use and offer as much information I can to gain perspective, and if you haven't received any of my emails then the information below is what I've been trying to convey to you since late October.

 

To date, I've sent you four emails, answered several facebook messages outside of business hours, and even offered to get you VIP access track day at Silverstone for your missed track day, but somehow "we can't be bothered." It's a shame to read that.

My feelings that APR couldn't be bothered stemmed mainly from sending you and Keith 4 emails and seemingly not getting a response. I've no idea whether it's an issue with my email account (gmail), a server somewhere or some content of the emails from yourselves that is somehow getting lost or blocked. If you say you've written to me, I'm not going to doubt you but, to date I still haven't received an email and I don't have Keith's number although I'm sure Alex could have given it to me. I have checked my Facebook inbox and don't have a message there although I did get a response to a comment I posted on APR's Facebook wall telling me there was an email in my inbox and I should call Keith at my earliest convenience.

Also, yes absolutely you did write to me on the 28th October and said that VWR does a customer appreciation day at Silverstone every year and you would see if you can't get me and the car access to the event (if I choose to keep the tune). That's a very kind offer to make up for having missed my trackday at Blyton Park but I read it as not-guaranteed and I think we're now past that point as the car has now moved on a stage with another tuner.

 

The facts as explained in my email and your previous posts: You likely activated anti-theft. When your car was flashed, I walked you through the different features and handed you a very detailed users manual with your security code in it. I don't blame you for this and am sorry that you were left stranded that day and that this information may have been forgotten or overlooked. I wish I had been there to take the call, but I wasn't.

No you didn't - and I'm not writing that in accusatory manner and trying to somehow say that was your fault for not doing so. I only ever received one EMCS manual, from Steve Cresswell at C&R in Nottingham. I then almost immediately received an electronic copy of the manual with my PIN code printed inside. When I came to have the Stage 2+ map flashed, you were busy and I appreciated your time. When the PIN was set, I said that the original PIN (from Steve) included a zero which we changed due to the potential complexity of adding a zero to the PIN entry in EMCS. So we changed the PIN, you had to dash to your next client (which I completely undersatand) and our discussion was along the lines of (but not exactly) --Are you happy? (yes) --Do you know what you're doing? (yes) --Do you need a manual? (no I'm sure I'll be alright). It turns out I wasn't as clearly I hadn't remembered the PIN (I thought I'd already writted that). But that's by the bye.

 

The biggest problem with this situation was the fact that you expected resolution from a Revo dealer. Alex at AKS is a great technician, but he didn't have the tools or the APR-knowhow to fix this quickly. It didn't seem like he had much motivation either as I reached out twice to him for updates and he didn't offer very technical feedback to work with.

I need you to look at this from my point of view. I'm driving a car in which the engine light starts flashing, so I stop as I think it's the best thing to do and on restarting the throttle doesn't work. I don't know why, so I call the RAC who send a patrol. The patrol guy then scans the car for fault codes and doesn't find any and sends for a recovery truck. In the meantime I have been in touch with AKS and the second thing he says is, "I think it's your anti-theft". At this point I'm pretty much in the middle of nowhere, I haven't got a manual, I haven't got sufficient data reception to download a manual and the car doesn't work. The only thing I can think of is, "The car doesn't work, it must be something mechanical" and, when I am asked where I want it to be recovered to, I ask for it to go to AKS becuase I think it's going to need a job involving skill and spanners. At AKS, I called APR on the 0845 and spoke to somebody whose name escapes me, it may have been Amanda, I don't know but I was told categorically that if the anti-theft was activated the car would not start. I even had the audio of that call recorded (quite by accident) on my dash cam, but it's long gone now. My car would start, so what am I supposed to think?

Further into this, I got an email from you and confirmation from AKS that I had been trying to enter the wrong code and you supplied me (and AKS) with the correct code. Alex told me he tried to enter the PIN in many different ways, either sliding the switch to off and also just to cancel, before and after disconnecting the car's battery. It still wouldn't accept the PIN. As I said above VCDS showed the stalk to be working correctly and cycling cruise on and off. I don't know why the code wouldn't be accepted. Whatever conversations went between you or Keith and AKS, I can't comment on. I've no reason to doubt AKS or their intentions, I wasn't going to have a Revo map and had neither indicated my intention.

 

I also offered you direct contact details for Keith who is in the UK (I'm not). Were you able to speak with him?

I appreciate that, but I still don't know what Keith's number is and if there's now any benefit to having a discussion with him, especially now as I assume he's off to Germany.

 

Simply put, files don't corrupt, and your ECU would not have activated some sort of immobilisation randomly. I sent Alex your code, and he reported it didn't work, but as a Revo dealer and not an APR dealer, I don't know if he did everything to enter it properly. Really, we needed someone at APR or an APR distributor to get their hands on the car for 15 minutes and all would have been good

Like I said, that's what I was told. You also told me that in order to have activated anti theft I would have had to use the following sequence:

"set set resume resume set set resume resume"

Obviously the only person that knows this is me, but I am absolutely certain that I didn't press the buttons in that order as, prior to pressing resume for the last time, I had also entered cancel to quit cruise. I don't know if this makes a difference, but it it does perhaps that's something that needs to be addressed in EMCS. It was also never made clear to me at either Stage 1 or 2+ what the security lockout is for - I hold my hands up and say that I probably didn't give the manual my full attention, even then I had to read it a couple of times just to compeltely understand what the security lockout feature did. Maybe that's a shortcoming on my part but I cannot be the only person that has used APR software without a thorough understanding of the technical features.

 

Glad you're happy with your hybrid turbo and everything now, Nick is a good guy. To review your points i) I've responded several times. I'm boggled as to how all four of my emails have missed your inbox after double and triple checking your email address. Our standard phone number is on the website, and I personally gave you Keith's mobile number. Maybe they were in the missed emails? ii)I've offered compensation for your lost track day by means of another track day.

I am absolutely, but I want to be clear that fitting a hybrid turbo and another tuner's map isn't me biting my thumb at APR. It's entirely coincidental that the issue with my Stage 2+ software happened when it did - they hybrid was always going to happen, it just happened a little sooner (and I'm talking weeks rather than months) than perhaps planned. As I say, I don't know how your emails haven't got to me and as such I haven't received Keith's number. Within minutes of being recovered I rang the standard number from the website and spoke to somebody who gave me wrong information, so hopefully you can forgive me for not calling that number again and, as I said, yes you did offer to try and get me onto the VWR trackday but I felt that at that point it was only a possibility and only if I kept the APR tune. I want to make it clear that I don't think you were holding me to ransom on that last point - I would have probably said the same thing to one of my customers.

 

This is completely untrue. Do a data log and requested boost will meet actual.

I'm also pretty sure I have a log that would show this to be the case as well.

 

In the end there were a few wrong turns that lead to this unfortunate outcome for us, but hopefully this information is helpful for everybody.

Agreed but I'm not going to say it's entirely helpful for me but I appreciate Evan taking the time to respond and it does clear up a few issues. I don't want to have the last word but whilst I take your point that you have sent me Keith's number, I know I also sent you my number too. I'm no longer angry or upset, in fact I was never really that angry or upset but I was pretty disappointed with the initial problem and the subsequent way in which I felt the issue was handled.

In the words of Count Arthur Strong, "I'll tell you what, the way to look at it is, we're all a bit wiser and older now, aren't we?"!

In the words of Count Arthur Strong, "I'll tell you what, the way to look at it is, we're all a bit wiser and older now, aren't we?"!

Hang on, this is an internet forum and you're being perfectly reasonable. Did the balance of the cosmos change overnight or something??

Sent from my ME301T using Tapatalk 4

Edited 5 December, 201312 yr by MarkBT

I think the world fell of its axis.

I'm surprised that the last constructive post on this was written by me nearly two weeks ago.
Like I said before, I still haven't received any emails from APR on this subject since our initial email conversation at the end of October yet APR's emails on the new APR Mobile platform have come through OK.  :wonder: 

 

I suppose I don't know what further response I was expecting and I don't think either of us will agree that either me (with the cruise switch) or APR are responsible. I was actually quite a proud APR customer, happy to champion them to anybody who asked what the map was like and the biggest shame for me is the bad luck in probably speaking to the only person at APR who doesn't know properly the product and told me that the car wouldn't start if anti-theft was active, leading me onto try and establish a fix. In real terms this only delayed a potential fix by a few days as, once we did establish the correct code, it still wasn't accepted by the system. I don't know what would have happened then and I'm not going to made to feel stupid for taking my car to my trusted tech (because I was told anti theft wasn't activated) who is not a Revo dealer.

 

I think it's probably best to draw a line under this now.

I'm surprised that the last constructive post on this was written by me nearly two weeks ago.

Like I said before, I still haven't received any emails from APR on this subject since our initial email conversation at the end of October yet APR's emails on the new APR Mobile platform have come through OK.  :wonder:

 

I suppose I don't know what further response I was expecting and I don't think either of us will agree that either me (with the cruise switch) or APR are responsible. I was actually quite a proud APR customer, happy to champion them to anybody who asked what the map was like and the biggest shame for me is the bad luck in probably speaking to the only person at APR who doesn't know properly the product and told me that the car wouldn't start if anti-theft was active, leading me onto try and establish a fix. In real terms this only delayed a potential fix by a few days as, once we did establish the correct code, it still wasn't accepted by the system. I don't know what would have happened then and I'm not going to made to feel stupid for taking my car to my trusted tech (because I was told anti theft wasn't activated) who is not a Revo dealer.

 

I think it's probably best to draw a line under this now.

The test of a good company and their customer service is what they do when things don't go quite to plan!

 

John