How does it actually fit into the grille, and secure? Any chance of a close-up photo?

 

Cheers.

How does it actually fit into the grille, and secure? Any chance of a close-up photo?

 

Cheers.

 

This is an installation video from the e-Heko website (complete with comedy soundtrack ):

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=VeOEEcQWgDw

 

It feels secure to me. It looks like the metal bracket bits are shaped specifically for each car, as the ones I got are different to those in the video and fit very snugly.

 

It's a bit dark for a decent photo right now. Not quite sure what you want to see? It looks exactly as in this photo from their website:

 

 

The cover fits inside the silver surround of the grille, fitting flush at the top on my car, and protruding a tiny bit at the bottom. My only very minor criticism of the look is the two shiny screws you see on the front of it where it is clamped in place.

 

As for how effective it is I need to do a bit more testing. On Monday the traffic was terrible both to and from work so not a fair comparison to normal conditions. Today the engine did warm up a bit faster (something like after 5.5 miles vs 7 miles last week for the car's needle to show 90°C) but it wasn't as cold as last week when I was paying attention to engine temps as a reference. (My Scangauge also shows that when the car shows 90°C the coolant temp. is actually still about 75°C and it takes a while longer to settle at 84°C or so.)

Edited 12 November, 201312 yr by Ultrasonic

That's enough info I think, thanks. Was just wondering exactly how it fitted, whether it clicked into place or similar.

 

The fact there are two physical screw points is reassuring. I might paint the screws matt black though, based on your feedback.

 

Cheers,

Steve

Do they make anything for the lower grille?  It seems to me that the upper grille only does about 1/2 the airflow and blocking it off will mean more air through the lower grille.  Net effect less than half blockage.

I've had a grille block on my top grille (on a fabia) for a few months now. the engine does get up to temp quicker on cold mornings and the heater warms the cabin much quicker. MPG is noticeably improved too.

 

I find putting the heater on recirculated air on a cold start helps warm up times too as it's not drawing cold air from outside over the coolant.

Do they make anything for the lower grille?  It seems to me that the upper grille only does about 1/2 the airflow and blocking it off will mean more air through the lower grille.  Net effect less than half blockage.

 

I don't think covering the bottom grille as well would be a good idea. This could definitely restrict the air flow to the air intake, as well as the potential risk of the engine overheating.

 

Driving to work this morning when it was more like the temperatures of last week I must admit I'm hard pushed to be sure my engine warmed up any more quickly at all with the grille block in place. I'll obviously be doing more testing, but I'd be hesitant of recommending one to others at the moment.

I don't think covering the bottom grille as well would be a good idea. This could definitely restrict the air flow to the air intake, as well as the potential risk of the engine overheating.

 

Driving to work this morning when it was more like the temperatures of last week I must admit I'm hard pushed to be sure my engine warmed up any more quickly at all with the grille block in place. I'll obviously be doing more testing, but I'd be hesitant of recommending one to others at the moment.

 

If you don't cover the lower grille, then you'll acheive very little.

If you look earlier in this thread you'll see that I ran last winter in NZ with a covered intercooler and radiator.  The car (2.0tdi scout) had no problems keeping a stable water temperature, I closely monitored water temps.

 

The air intake is not a concern.  You'd have to make the engine bay air-tight to restrict that.

If you don't cover the lower grille, then you'll acheive very little.

If you look earlier in this thread you'll see that I ran last winter in NZ with a covered intercooler and radiator.  The car (2.0tdi scout) had no problems keeping a stable water temperature, I closely monitored water temps.

 

The air intake is not a concern.  You'd have to make the engine bay air-tight to restrict that.

 

You said you put a square of carpet in front of the intercooler which may well not have obstructed the air intake?

 

Relying on air coming in through gaps around the engine bay sounds pretty much like a definition of restricting the air flow to me. How significant this would be I don't know though. I would also be concerned about an adverse effect on mpg from obstructing the intercooler, and from the likely increased air intake temps that would result from a full grille block.

 

I also note that Perc posted above that Skoda main dealers are happy with the use of an upper grille block but caution against the use of a lower grille block as well.

 

A full grille block is certainly not something that I will be risking experimenting with.

You said you put a square of carpet in front of the intercooler which may well not have obstructed the air intake?

 

Relying on air coming in through gaps around the engine bay sounds pretty much like a definition of restricting the air flow to me. How significant this would be I don't know though. I would also be concerned about an adverse effect on mpg from obstructing the intercooler, and from the likely increased air intake temps that would result from a full grille block.

 

I also note that Perc posted above that Skoda main dealers are happy with the use of an upper grille block but caution against the use of a lower grille block as well.

 

A full grille block is certainly not something that I will be risking experimenting with.

 

The air intake is not a concern.

You can never drop the air pressure in the engine bay enough to affect engine performance by simply blocking grilles.  If your engine is running cold, then how are you going to get warm/hot air into the intake?  This is a winter mod we're talking about.  If you are concerned about that, run a OBD2 plugin that gives you realtime readout of your intake temps.  Scangauge does it.

 

Your fuel economy suffers more from the engine running cold than anything else.  I noticed no change in fuel economy with the radiator and intercooler covered.  At cruise the boost is low, the boost temps are low and the intercooler does little.

I'm a mechanical engineer.  I do a fair bit with turbocharging calculations and thermodynamics.  I don't put much weight at all on a car dealers opinion, skoda or not.

 

The upper grille does so little that some cars don't even have one.  They take all the air through the lower.

How much fuel will the engine warming up quicker actually save? enough to offset the cost of the grill? I doubt it for most people.

The air intake is not a concern.

You can never drop the air pressure in the engine bay enough to affect engine performance by simply blocking grilles.  If your engine is running cold, then how are you going to get warm/hot air into the intake?

 

The engine bay will be warmer than air coming straight into the air intake from the front of the car. With my upper grille block the air intake temp will be raised since the air needs to pass by the AC/intercooler/radiator sandwich. I don't really think there can be any argument that the intake air temps will be raised, but how big the difference is and what effect this would have on mpg is a totally different matter.

 

 

 

If you are concerned about that, run a OBD2 plugin that gives you realtime readout of your intake temps.  Scangauge does it.

 

I have a Scangauge II and have been monitoring coolant and intake air temps with it over the last couple of weeks.

 

 

 

Your fuel economy suffers more from the engine running cold than anything else.

 

There will be a potential trade-off between improved mpg from faster engine warm up (if achieved) against potentially lower mpg once up to operating temp due to changes in air intake temp. or possibly intercooler performance. An external grille block should also show an improvement in mpg due to reduced aerodynamic drag though.

 

 

 

At cruise the boost is low, the boost temps are low and the intercooler does little.

I'm a mechanical engineer.  I do a fair bit with turbocharging calculations and thermodynamics.

 

That's interesting, thanks. I've noted from my scangauge that there is boost is modest but non-zero when cruising on a motorway, but I have no feel for the significance of the intercooler under these circumstances.

 

 

 

The upper grille does so little that some cars don't even have one.  They take all the air through the lower.

 

It's obviously a slightly different situation when a car is designed to run this way. But this was the logic that lead me to risk trying an upper grille block.

Edited 13 November, 201312 yr by Ultrasonic

How much fuel will the engine warming up quicker actually save? enough to offset the cost of the grill? I doubt it for most people.

 

A very fair comment - I suspect any gains would be sufficiently modest that it would take a long time to recoup the cost.

 

Faster warm up will be more significant for people who make short trips compared to those who spend lots of time doing long distance driving.

 

My own interest in improving mpg is in large part for environmental rather than financial reasons. I was also interested in the external grille block for potential aerodynamic gains as well as for trying to improve warmup. I'll therefore be honest and say that I bought one as much out of curiousity to see if it did any good rather than as an attempt to save money.

My car uses significantly more when not up to temp.  Certainly more than 10%, not quite 20% more.  The difference in fuel consumption would very quickly pay for measures to offset it.  Except that my measures didn't cost me anything.  Higher IAT doesn't affect MPG, only peak power as the air density is lower so mass flow is lower and less fuel can be burnt.  A 30 degree C rise in IAT will drop the density by around 10%.  You won't get a 30 degree rise in winter.

 

Ultrasonic, since you have a scangauge and do monitor inlet air temps, why not block the grill and see what they do?  I run a scangauge but can't run the experiment because I'm headed into summer (24C yesterday) and that would be silly.

My car uses significantly more when not up to temp.  Certainly more than 10%, not quite 20% more.

 

But if it's only using that for a tiny percentage of the total journey time it won't make much difference to average mpg, and therefore take a long time to pay for the cost of the grille block in question.

 

Higher IAT doesn't affect MPG, only peak power as the air density is lower so mass flow is lower and less fuel can be burnt.

 

Until recently I'd argued exactly along these lines. Thinking that the MAF sensor would detect the smaller amount of air entering the engine if increased IAT reduced air density, and that this would in turn reduce the amount of fuel injected accordingly and therefore not affect mpg at all. But reading around this suject over the last week or so I'm not entirely sure if this is true. Do you know? Is the amount of fuel injected related to MAF readings?

 

Ultrasonic, since you have a scangauge and do monitor inlet air temps, why not block the grill

and see what they do?  I run a scangauge but can't run the experiment because I'm headed into summer

(24C yesterday) and that would be silly.

 

Sorry, I'm not prepared to completely block off my grille. It still feels slightly risky to me.

But if it's only using that for a tiny percentage of the total journey time it won't make much difference to average mpg, and therefore take a long time to pay for the cost of the grille block in question.

 

 

 

 

Until recently I'd argued exactly along these lines. Thinking that the MAF sensor would detect the smaller amount of air entering the engine if increased IAT reduced air density, and that this would in turn reduce the amount of fuel injected accordingly and therefore not affect mpg at all. But reading around this suject over the last week or so I'm not entirely sure if this is true. Do you know? Is the amount of fuel injected related to MAF readings?

 

 

 

 

Sorry, I'm not prepared to completely block off my grille. It still feels slightly risky to me.

 

The amount of fuel injected is the lowest allowed by a series of limiters in the ECU.

First an amount is requested by the throttle map based on engine rpm and pedal position.  This is a torque request which is translated back to a fuel quantity request.

That fuel quantity is then moderated through first a torque limiter (to ensure it's not higher than allowed torque limits.

Then, in no particular order, boost pressure limits (altitude etc), airflow limits (clogged air-filter, altitude, temp, boost, intercooling) and others I'm likely forgetting.

 

If the fuel requested is lower than any of those limits, then what your foot requests is what you get.  But in different conditions other limiters come into play.

 

In my skoda the torque limiters were the actual bottleneck.  Raising those (with no other changes) gave an increase in torque and power.  I haven't in any way quantified this gain, but it shows that in stock form airflow and boost limits in the ECU are well above what it actually uses.

 

Regarding warmup.  I have mapped out the EGR in my car, so winter warmup does take longer.  At around freezing point it takes about 12km of open road driving for the car to reach temperature with nothing blocking the airflow.  With the radiator and intercooler covered it's about 5km.

 

What concerns you the most about blocking the grille?  It seems you have direct measurements of most of the concerns.

Edited 13 November, 201312 yr by Kiwibacon

A very fair comment - I suspect any gains would be sufficiently modest that it would take a long time to recoup the cost.

 

I may be able to quantify this to a degree. I have just looked at my fuel economy data for the past year (I keep a record with an app that records MPG at every fill up). The data is from my Fabia, but the principle applies to any car.

 

Broadly during last winter I would average 60 mpg from a tank. During the summer months this went up to 65 mpg. Exactly the same driving (exclusively used for commuting), so the difference can be put down to cooler winter conditions.

 

Covering 1000 miles per month the sums are thus. Assuming fuel at £1.40/litre, in winter mpg conditions this costs £106.16 per month. In summer mpg conditions £98 per month.

 

If your winter modifications allow you to fully achieve summer mpg figures there is £8/month to be saved.....probably for at least four months in the winter.....£32. Of course it may not be possible to fully achieve summer figures with any winter mods, so these figures are still a bit theoretical.     

Edited 13 November, 201312 yr by booke23

Doesn't diesel have extra additives in winter to stop waxing? Wouldn't this also effect performance and fuel consumption?

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Doesn't diesel have extra additives in winter to stop waxing?

 

Very true. However I'm not sure it actually affects winter fuel consumption that much.

 

When I look at my figures for the year, there is a fairly gradual drop off in MPG from the end of September until January when it bottoms out. I imagine the winter additive is added from October onwards....if it was causing the winter MPG drop, then my figures would drop suddenly in October.

 

I'm not saying the winter additive has no affect......just that it's affect seems limited compared to the affect low temperatures have to MPG.  

The UK has no Diesel aditives delivered at the pump during the winter months, or at any other time for that matter.

The UK has no Diesel aditives delivered at the pump during the winter months, or at any other time for that matter.

Not sure exactly what you are saying.....Diesel has no additives in winter?

Standard derv starts to gel at 0c and it gets bad enough to stop engines at -9c. The UK might have a temperate climate, but -9c is not uncommon. So diesel sold in the UK in winter has winter additives to stop this from happening.

The UK has no Diesel aditives delivered at the pump during the winter months, or at any other time for that matter.

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean there, additives are not added 'at the pump' at any time of year, but they are when tankers are filled at the refinery. The diesel you get out of the pumps definitely is different in winter. It is required to be to meet the BS EN 590 standard, that it has to in order to be legally sold:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_diesel_fuel#United_Kingdom

 

Whether the change affects mpg is something I have never been able to find any good data on. In the US their winterized diesel has a lower energy density and therefore definitely does reduce mpg, but I have tried and failed to find definitive information for the UK. I'd be very interested if anyone has any proper information on this!

Edited 14 November, 201312 yr by Ultrasonic

If your winter modifications allow you to fully achieve summer mpg figures there is £8/month to be saved.....probably for at least four months in the winter.....£32. Of course it may not be possible to fully achieve summer figures with any winter mods, so these figures are still a bit theoretical.     

 

An interesting calculation, but as you suggest there are other factors to consider and I don't think any form of grille block will ever make summer mpg figures achievable in winter. Other than engine warm up, other important factors causing lower mpg in winter are:

 

1) Increased aerodynamic drag due to colder (and therefore denser) air. This is a big factor that doesn't often get mentioned.

2) Adverse weather, be it more wind, rain or snow all reduce mpg. When these conditions lead to typicaly worse traffic conditions this exacerbates the effect. (I always get my best work commuting mpg figures during the school holidays when the roads have much less traffic!)

3) Increased use of internal fans (for heating) and possibly increased AC compressor useage.

4) The fact that the engine starts colder will still be a factor, and not amount of grille blocking will stop this.

 

The actual savings from increasing warm up time will just relate to the difference in mpg for the short additional distance that it takes full operating temp. to be achieved, which will be MUCH less that 1,000 miles per month.

 

Edit: oh, and as above there might be a winter fuel effect.

Edited 14 November, 201312 yr by Ultrasonic

What concerns you the most about blocking the grille?  It seems you have direct measurements of most of the concerns.

 

Thanks very much for your detailed explanation above. My concerns about a full block still relate partly to air intake concerns but also any other unexpected consequences of running a car under such different conditions to how it was designed to operate. It may well be fine but I am not enough of an expert to be confident of this, and I would want to be before trying something so extreme. Please don't be offended, but this is not something that I will do simply on the suggestion of someone that I have never met on an internet forum. I also don't actually want to be messing about with a DIY bodged grille block to be honest!

Edited 14 November, 201312 yr by Ultrasonic

An interesting calculation, but as you suggest there are other factors to consider and I don't think any form of grille block will ever make summer mpg figures achievable in winter. Other than engine warm up, other important factors causing lower mpg in winter are:

 

1) Increased aerodynamic drag due to colder (and therefore denser) air. This is a big factor that doesn't often get mentioned.

2) Adverse weather, be it more wind, rain or snow all reduce mpg. When these conditions lead to typicaly worse traffic conditions this exacerbates the effect. (I always get my best work commuting mpg figures during the school holidays when the roads have much less traffic!)

3) Increased use of internal fans (for heating) and possibly increased AC compressor useage.

4) The fact that the engine starts colder will still be a factor, and not amount of grille blocking will stop this.

 

The actual savings from increasing warm up time will just relate to the difference in mpg for the short additional distance that it takes full operating temp. to be achieved, which will be MUCH less that 1,000 miles per month.

 

Edit: oh, and as above there might be a winter fuel effect.

 

Indeed.

 

The poorer MPG we all get in winter I'm sure are a combination of the above. Rain absolutely makes a big difference to rolling resistance....I'd say 5% at least. As you say, no engine mod will stop this.

 

My idea on the winter MPG problem was to experiment with an inexpensive sump heater.....around £45 direct from Canada. Run for 3 hours (on a timer) before I leave for work would get the oil up to 50-60c. I would be interested to see what difference this would make to winter MPG. Although you would not achieve summer MPG levels with this mod, I do suspect the longer warm up times are a significant factor in the winter MPG problem.    

My idea on the winter MPG problem was to experiment with an inexpensive sump heater.....around £45 direct from Canada. Run for 3 hours (on a timer) before I leave for work would get the oil up to 50-60c. I would be interested to see what difference this would make to winter MPG. Although you would not achieve summer MPG levels with this mod, I do suspect the longer warm up times are a significant factor in the winter MPG problem.    

 

Oh yes, warm up is definitely a factor, and presumably more so for shorter journeys. Are you thinking of the heating pads that stick on the outside of the oil sump? I'd be interested in the results if you did try one. Although I wouldn't be rushing to try one myself simply because of the complication of trying to get a mains power connection out to my car.